I wanted to bring this post over from another board to see what the JustBBall people thought. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, it's another T-Mac/Kobe topic, but I think it's got a better twist. We normally hear this debate in relation to Kobe and Jordan, but I've not seen it done w/ Mcgrady and Kobe. I think most on this board would agree they are great players and quite possibly the two fore runners as far as best SG in the league. The facts: <u>Tracy Mcgrady</u> Career Averages: 19.7 ppg 6.5 rpg 3.8 apg 1.29 spg 1.28 bpg <u>Kobe Bryant</u> Career Averages: 21.2 ppg 4.9 rpg 4.1 apg 1.41 spg .65 bpg So the way it breaks down: Career Scoring Average: Kobe by 1.5 ppg Career Rebounding Average: Mcgrady by 1.6 rpg Career Assists Average: Kobe by .3 apg Career Steals Average: Kobe by .12 Career Blocks Average: Mcgrady by .63 So for their career Kobe has the edge statistically, still, not by much. However, consider that Mcgrady is now playing his 6th NBA season and Kobe his 7th and let's see how it compares. 5th year stats: <u>Tracy Mcgrady</u> 5th Season Averages 25.6 ppg 7.9 rpg 5.3 apg 1.57 spg .96 bpg <u>Kobe Bryant</u> 5th Season Averages 28.5 ppg 5.9 rpg 5.5 apg 1.68 spg .63 bpg Basically it boils down to Kobe score 3 more pppg and Mcgrady got 2 more rpg. Pretty close statistically. <u>Tracy Mcgrady</u> 6th Season Averages: 31.4 ppg 6.8 rpg 5.6 apg 1.64 spg .79 bpg <u>Kobe Bryant</u> 6th Season Averages: 25.2 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.5 apg 1.41 spg .44 bpg Statistics courtesy of [link=www.nba.com]NBA.com[/link] Statistically speaking, although they were close in their respective 5th seasons, Mcgrady is better at every stage of the game by their 6th season. What do you think... Kobe last year or Mcgrady this year? Who is better? </div> Of course, I realize that rings will be the first factor brought in by those who support Kobe, but I would caution you that that is another benefit of playing with Shaq, just like getting less defensive attention.
I think Kobe is so much better so far. Kobe has 3 rings right now. I know he has Shaq and I know he would never win 3 rings without him but that's what he has......3 rings T Mac could maybe have 3 rings with Carter but he wanted to be team leader,Kobe could also be team leader anywhere else but he stayed with Shaq. Kobe is the youngest player ever to score more than 10 000 points and T Mac is not even close in that. I think that Kobe vs T mac debate won't be so popular in 3 season becuase of Kobe's work ethic. Kobe will work hard end he will be better player in the end. T Mav has better 6th seaosn but kobe has better every other season. I think Kobe is better scorer,passer and rebounder. Kobe has more points and assists and he proved he can have the same numbers without Shaq but what he also proved is that he can grab more rebounds without Shaq so i think Kobe could also have more rebounds w/o Shaq. Kobe is so much better now and he has better carrer so far and I am sure he will have it in the end Name me one accomplishment that T Mac has and Kobe hasn't? There is no such thing. Name me one accomplishment that Kobe has and T Mac hasn't? There are a lot of Kobe's accomplishments
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no such thing. Name me one accomplishment that Kobe has and T Mac hasn't? </div> Um, everything Kobe has TMac could have were he on Shaq's team (except All-Star game MVP and that's because Mcgrady isn't willing to be a selfish ball hog) And don't forget - Kobe is one year beyond Mcgrady - that's the point of this post. Also, support your comments with something beyond your opinion. The stats say Mcgrady is the better passer, rebounder, etc. One more thing... how was Kobe better in the seasons before 5th and 6th? Look the stats up yourself and then validate your comments.
well kobe gets his assists passing to shaq. tmac gets his...passing to garrity? tmac is 1 of the most dominating forces in the east. kobe isnt even the most dominating force on his own team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "BigTMacFan":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no such thing. Name me one accomplishment that Kobe has and T Mac hasn't? </div> Um, everything Kobe has TMac could have were he on Shaq's team (except All-Star game MVP and that's because Mcgrady isn't willing to be a selfish ball hog) And don't forget - Kobe is one year beyond Mcgrady - that's the point of this post. Also, support your comments with something beyond your opinion. The stats say Mcgrady is the better passer, rebounder, etc. One more thing... how was Kobe better in the seasons before 5th and 6th? Look the stats up yourself and then validate your comments.</div> Not necessarily. Could T-Mac share the ball and play 2nd fiddle? He doesn't defend as well as Kobe and I'd like to see how he would function in the triangle offense. Kobe is a better all-around player than T-Mac. I think T-Mac is better offensively, but he doesn't have the intangibles and the defense Kobe has. Both are great players! Best SG - Kobe Best SF - T-mac
[quote name='"shapecity"']<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Not necessarily. Could T-Mac share the ball and play 2nd fiddle? He doesn't defend as well as Kobe and I'd like to see how he would function in the triangle offense. Kobe is a better all-around player than T-Mac. I think T-Mac is better offensively, but he doesn't have the intangibles and the defense Kobe has. Both are great players! Best SG - Kobe Best SF - T-mac</div> Last thing first: Kobe would make a better SF than Mcgrady would because of the extra beef he added over the offseason. And I don't know about Mcgrady being 2nd fiddle. He might not react to it as well as Kobe has. Kobe isn't the better all-around player - he just has more energy to play D because he doesn't have to work as hard on offense because Shaq is there. Mcgrady on the other hand is his team's everything on O (up until the trade) and had to use more energy on that end. People forget that when Mcgrady was in Toronta he was considered a "defensive specialist". He still is a lock-down man when he has the opportunity to, he just doesn't get it as much after he had to become 90% of his team's offensive firepower.
"kobe gets his assists passing to shaq. tmac gets his...passing to garrity? " shaq makes individual moves...garrity fires on touch... = more of garrity's shots that fall turn into assists for T-Mac
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "SCBrian":</div><div class="quote_post">"kobe gets his assists passing to shaq. tmac gets his...passing to garrity? " shaq makes individual moves...garrity fires on touch... = more of garrity's shots that fall turn into assists for T-Mac</div> Riiight... compare the two's FG%.
I don't remember T-Mac ever being considered a defensive specialist in Toronto. He's been called a lazy defender by teammates and coaches. Kobe exerts energy on defense by choice. It has nothing to do with Shaq, and everything to do with wanting to be the best. What seperated Jordan from other superstars in his era was his ability to take over a game on both sides of the ball, right now Kobe can as well. Not to say T-Mac can't be a great defender in the future. He has the athletic ability to get it done, he just needs to have the desire.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post">I don't remember T-Mac ever being considered a defensive specialist in Toronto. He's been called a lazy defender by teammates and coaches. </div> The only reason he got on the floor in Toronto was to go lock-down the other team's hottest player and set VC up. And no, he hasn't been called a lazy defender. Doc said he could work on his defense, but the end of his quote said that his biggest problem on D was his workload on O.
Actually, I think T-Mac would thrive in the Triangle Offence because he doesn't tend to force things as much as Kobe does. And besdies, right now, Kobe isn't exactly playing in the triangle offence.
Orlando's most veteran player is Horace Grant, and he agrees that McGrady's energy level is sometimes inadequate. "The thing is," says Grant, "that Tracy's still only 23, and his competitive nature is still maturing. And, yes, a young player can learn to play with greater intensity. It's a technique, just like good footwork or making an outlet pass. But time is running out. If Tracy doesn't learn to play all out all the time within the next two years, then it'll be too late. Nothing gets unfixable as quickly as bad habits." Spoken from the horse's mouth... OK, OK ? but, besides Shaq, who is the NBA's premier player? "There's no question about it," says McGrady. "It's Kobe and he's got three rings to prove it." Horace Grant referred to him as a lazy defender, not Doc, because he gambles on defense instead of playing straight up. I'll try to find the article again.
In their poll, the GMs certainly didn't forget. On most topics, they listed Bryant ahead of McGrady. In one telling question dealing with their respective positions, GM's were almost unanimous (92 percent) in selecting Bryant as the game's top shooting guard. McGrady, meanwhile, won at small forward, but with two-thirds (65 percent) of the vote. Offensively, it's not as close as you might think. "The more I see McGrady play, the more I see him keep the ball and try to score all the time," one GM said. "Once he gets the ball, he's not passing it. The thing Kobe will do is get the ball to other people, especially now that Shaq is back. He won't be shooting it 30 times now because he knows he doesn't have to. I just don't know if McGrady has the mentality of making others guys around him better." Another GM pointed out that the biggest difference in their offensive repertoire is that Bryant has an in-between game and McGrady doesn't. "Kobe can make the 15-to-18 footer -- he can do three or four moves and get his shot, and he doesn't have to get to the rim," the executive said. "McGrady shoots three's or posts up little guys. And he needs to get to the rim because he really doesn't have that in-between game. But McGrady is still a hell of a player." http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/lawrence_mitch/1467144.html
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "BigTMacFan":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no such thing. Name me one accomplishment that Kobe has and T Mac hasn't? </div> Um, everything Kobe has TMac could have were he on Shaq's team (except All-Star game MVP and that's because Mcgrady isn't willing to be a selfish ball hog) And don't forget - Kobe is one year beyond Mcgrady - that's the point of this post. Also, support your comments with something beyond your opinion. The stats say Mcgrady is the better passer, rebounder, etc. One more thing... how was Kobe better in the seasons before 5th and 6th? Look the stats up yourself and then validate your comments.</div> Not necessarily. T-Mac can share the ball and play 2nd fiddle. He does defend better than Kobe. and he'd function pretty good in the triangle offense. T-Mac is a better all-around player than Kobe. I think Kobe is better offensively, but he doesn't have the intangibles and the defense T-Mac has. Both are great players! Best SG - Kobe Best SF - T-mac</div> yeah
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "BigTMacFan":</div><div class="quote_post">None of what you posted was a team mate calling him a lazy defender.</div> Horace Grant referred to him as a lazy defender, not Doc, because he gambles on defense instead of playing straight up. I'll try to find the article again.
BigTMacFan here it is: But on a flight last week with a three-game losing streak on board, Rivers stepped into an argument brewing between Grant and Tracy McGrady. Though he agreed to a degree with the sentiment, McGrady was upset that he was described as lazy on defense by an "unnamed teammate" and confronted Grant. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/feigen/1702471
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post">BigTMacFan here it is: But on a flight last week with a three-game losing streak on board, Rivers stepped into an argument brewing between Grant and Tracy McGrady. Though he agreed to a degree with the sentiment, McGrady was upset that he was described as lazy on defense by an "unnamed teammate" and confronted Grant. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/feigen/1702471</div> Media Bull Crap.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "pacers#1":</div><div class="quote_post">t mac is clearly better. just compare his best years stats to kobes best year stats.</div> Stats aren't everything.
