<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "purehoops":</div><div class="quote_post">- KG more triple doubles, and double doubles than Kobe (regardless of size) - KG can take over a game, TD can take over and game, Iverson, Pierce, Shaq, McGrady, so dont gimme that he can take over games better... you owned no one... you think you did because you refuse to see the real facts...</div> First of all, thefranchise3--Duncan winning MVP in 2003 was fraud. KG and Kobe were better. Duncan is the NBA's new golden boy. Anyways, your point about KG having more triple dubbs than Kobe is way off. Kobe actually led the NBA in td's (he had 2 straight early in the season) before Shaq came back. Thus your idea is invalid. KG just passes it around to Wally or a jump-shooter and gets assists. Who could Kobe dish off to? An injured Devean George? A suspended Rick Fox? An injured and overweight Shaq? Old crusty vet Tracy Murray? ha! Janerro Pargo, Kareem Rush, Soumalia Samake? (all rookies) Samaki Walker aka fumble-hands?! No way. Kobe has mad game. Next, could Stockton take over a game even though he was great? No, Stockton couldn't score 40 any time he wants.. Alot of the games early in the season were close losses. Almost beat the Spurs on opening night but were rusty. Frikkin Soumy Samake was starting... Couldda beaten the Celts on the road in OT...lost to the Wizards on the road when lucky Stackhouse dunked it at the buzzer. It took awhile to win even when Shaq was in the lineup. Not Kobe's fault. Last, Kobe could be even better if he didn't have to share with Shaq every game. Kobe held the team together like glue while Shaq was gone. Also Kobe could showcase his skillz if he didn't have to be the distributor and if Phil Jackson didn't tell him to pass or shoot every other game... So YES you were
Kobe is the best player by far in the NBA right now. -The most complete player in the game You might want to argue that KG is, but without Shaq Kobe was almost averaging a triple double, and he missed out by .01 apg on becoming one of only 3 players to ever average 30 ppg, 6rpg, 6apg for a season. KG can't score as well as him or pass as well as Kobe. He's a better rebounder, but inch for inch I would take Kobe as a better rebounder. Kobe is also a great defender as well, most people think of steals and blocks, but Kobe is actually a MAN-TO-MAN defender, not a roamer like Doug Christie, or a help shot-blocker like Wallace. -CAN win without Shaq Don't just look at the one stretch at the beginning of this year when they struggled. Hey, T-Mac and the Magic had TWO stretches of 2-7! And, overall without Shaq Kobe has a winning record! And remember who is playing with. Injured George, Soumalia Samake, Mark Madsen, Jannero Pargo. That is a tragic collection of players. -Sets records His streak of 40+ point games was incredible. It wasn't just a "hot streak" either. Phil had given him the green light offensively. It's crazy to think of what he could have done if PJ would have given him the green light the whole season! Not to mention his 12 threes in one game and 42 points in one half. But greatest of all might be the youngest player to reach 10,000 points! Kobe is #1!!
once or twice this season he had over fify in a game and was taken off at the end of the third and never went back on,amazing
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "cross;yo;ova":</div><div class="quote_post">once or twice this season he had over fify in a game and was taken off at the end of the third and never went back on,amazing</div> Finally! Somebody who recognizes Kobe's skill! In 2002 season vs. Grizz, Kobe netted 56 points in 3 quarters and sat out the entire 4th quarter! :shock:
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">another great point. oscar robinson. maybe the best player ever </div> Oscar ROBERTSON (why do people always get his name wrong?) won a ring and that was because he had Kareem on his team. Magic won rings because he had Kareem and Worthy. Hakeem won because he had Clyde. Dr. J because he had Moses Malone. Bird because McHale. Russel because the other five hall of famers he had on his team. Wilt because Elgin and West. MJ because Scottie. Kobe because Shaq, and Shaq because Kobe. Championship teams always have two great players (with the exception of the past years Spurs) so why don't we fault the other great players for winning rings with other dominant players? Why is Kobe the exception?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "sportsrock37":</div><div class="quote_post">duncan is better than kobe.</div> that statement can be viewed many ways. techically,kobe would beat him 1 on 1 and is better than him,so duncan is really not better than kobe however,duncan may be looked more useful to a team,especially in playoffs where big men and post play win games,you have to go to a legit guy who will get the score eg duncan then again kobe can and could score a hell of a lot more than duncan,but isnt as reliable and could have off games. point is its very very hard to judge who is better when players are different and play a different game[pf/c versus sg]
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "the MDE":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "purehoops":</div><div class="quote_post">- KG more triple doubles, and double doubles than Kobe (regardless of size) - KG can take over a game, TD can take over and game, Iverson, Pierce, Shaq, McGrady, so dont gimme that he can take over games better... you owned no one... you think you did because you refuse to see the real facts...</div> First of all, thefranchise3--Duncan winning MVP in 2003 was fraud. KG and Kobe were better. Duncan is the NBA's new golden boy. Anyways, your point about KG having more triple dubbs than Kobe is way off. Kobe actually led the NBA in td's (he had 2 straight early in the season) before Shaq came back. Thus your idea is invalid. KG just passes it around to Wally or a jump-shooter and gets assists. Who could Kobe dish off to? An injured Devean George? A suspended Rick Fox? An injured and overweight Shaq? Old crusty vet Tracy Murray? ha! Janerro Pargo, Kareem Rush, Soumalia Samake? (all rookies) Samaki Walker aka fumble-hands?! No way. Kobe has mad game. Next, could Stockton take over a game even though he was great? No, Stockton couldn't score 40 any time he wants.. Alot of the games early in the season were close losses. Almost beat the Spurs on opening night but were rusty. Frikkin Soumy Samake was starting... Couldda beaten the Celts on the road in OT...lost to the Wizards on the road when lucky Stackhouse dunked it at the buzzer. It took awhile to win even when Shaq was in the lineup. Not Kobe's fault. Last, Kobe could be even better if he didn't have to share with Shaq every game. Kobe held the team together like glue while Shaq was gone. Also Kobe could showcase his skillz if he didn't have to be the distributor and if Phil Jackson didn't tell him to pass or shoot every other game... So YES you were </div> obviously your still reyquan aagain so youre still repeating yourself and all your arguements are flawed as ive already explained in terms so simple even you should be able to understand. saying that tim duncan is the nbas golden bioy makes you the biggest hypocrite in the northern hemoshpere. Kobe gets to run free because as soon as teams slightly make any kind of contact with him he gets the call. maybe even more than jordan did. compare that to guys like pierce who get absolutley HAMMERED everytime they go to the basket and dont always get the calll even on plays where they have their teeth knocked out. Face it. Tim Duncan is the MVP. Kobe didnt deserve it. he didnt deserve to finish ahead of shaq or tmac either. look at the lakers record without shaq and with kobe. 2-10. shaq is the reason they win or lose. hees the MVP of the lakers and tim duncan is the mvp of the league. thats why he dominated all the way to the finals. hes so much more versatile than kobe. kobe will never have a 20 20 game and flirt with a quad double let alone do it in the last game of the finals. please stop posting here. trust me, people here eventually just start ignoring people like you becasue you dont even listen and never admit to being wrong. grow up
GREAT POINTS SLAY & MDE yes duncan winning the MVP was a fraud. one of the voters didn't give KG any votes, but if he had then KG would have been last year's MVP. and the year before Kidd should have been the MVP. and duncan killed an INJURED lakers team. let's not forget that. Shaq was in foul trouble for most of the series as well and the Spurs always took a huge lead in the first half. not to take away from tim duncan, because he was incredible this year, but i've seen how poorly he plays against shaq when shaq is healthy. sunsfan1357 - good point why is kobe the exception? people try so hard to find flaws in the success kobe has instead appreciating it. since they can't knock kobe's skills they have to blame his success on him having shaq. pretty lame argument because kobe can still score without shaq and is still great without him. he won't win as much, but neither would most teams if you took away their #1 option.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "olskoolFunktitude":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "the MDE":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "purehoops":</div><div class="quote_post">- KG more triple doubles, and double doubles than Kobe (regardless of size) - KG can take over a game, TD can take over and game, Iverson, Pierce, Shaq, McGrady, so dont gimme that he can take over games better... you owned no one... you think you did because you refuse to see the real facts...</div> First of all, thefranchise3--Duncan winning MVP in 2003 was fraud. KG and Kobe were better. Duncan is the NBA's new golden boy. Anyways, your point about KG having more triple dubbs than Kobe is way off. Kobe actually led the NBA in td's (he had 2 straight early in the season) before Shaq came back. Thus your idea is invalid. KG just passes it around to Wally or a jump-shooter and gets assists. Who could Kobe dish off to? An injured Devean George? A suspended Rick Fox? An injured and overweight Shaq? Old crusty vet Tracy Murray? ha! Janerro Pargo, Kareem Rush, Soumalia Samake? (all rookies) Samaki Walker aka fumble-hands?! No way. Kobe has mad game. Next, could Stockton take over a game even though he was great? No, Stockton couldn't score 40 any time he wants.. Alot of the games early in the season were close losses. Almost beat the Spurs on opening night but were rusty. Frikkin Soumy Samake was starting... Couldda beaten the Celts on the road in OT...lost to the Wizards on the road when lucky Stackhouse dunked it at the buzzer. It took awhile to win even when Shaq was in the lineup. Not Kobe's fault. Last, Kobe could be even better if he didn't have to share with Shaq every game. Kobe held the team together like glue while Shaq was gone. Also Kobe could showcase his skillz if he didn't have to be the distributor and if Phil Jackson didn't tell him to pass or shoot every other game... So YES you were </div> obviously your still reyquan aagain so youre still repeating yourself and all your arguements are flawed as ive already explained in terms so simple even you should be able to understand. saying that tim duncan is the nbas golden bioy makes you the biggest hypocrite in the northern hemoshpere. Kobe gets to run free because as soon as teams slightly make any kind of contact with him he gets the call. maybe even more than jordan did. compare that to guys like pierce who get absolutley HAMMERED everytime they go to the basket and dont always get the calll even on plays where they have their teeth knocked out. Face it. Tim Duncan is the MVP. Kobe didnt deserve it. he didnt deserve to finish ahead of shaq or tmac either. look at the lakers record without shaq and with kobe. 2-10. shaq is the reason they win or lose. hees the MVP of the lakers and tim duncan is the mvp of the league. thats why he dominated all the way to the finals. hes so much more versatile than kobe. kobe will never have a 20 20 game and flirt with a quad double let alone do it in the last game of the finals. please stop posting here. trust me, people here eventually just start ignoring people like you becasue you dont even listen and never admit to being wrong. grow up</div> funky i think you are confusing MDE with that guy who started the thread. MDE actually has some good points and is a great poster here.
r u sure? he seemed to show up as soon as the other guy left with basically the same arguement although he is a little mopre well spoken so i apologize if i made a mistake. Shape after whatching the finals the playoffs and lest fasce it the whole season how can you say duncan wasnt the MVP. you guys are the only two people who think that in the world, and how could you say kobe deserved it more. kobe wasnt even the mvp of his team
i never said kobe deserved it. i said KG deserved the MVP. KG had a better year than Duncan and KG lead his team to a 4th seed despite not having wally.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post">and duncan killed an INJURED lakers team. let's not forget that. Shaq was in foul trouble for most of the series as well and the Spurs always took a huge lead in the first half. not to take away from tim duncan, because he was incredible this year, but i've seen how poorly he plays against shaq when shaq is healthy. </div> foul trouble? that's only because the refs were actually calling fouls on him. Shaq should be in foul trouble every other game. he might as well get away with murder. crap. there's a really bad storm here. i'll argue more when it's over. dont want my computer to fry.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "slamduncan21":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post">and duncan killed an INJURED lakers team. let's not forget that. Shaq was in foul trouble for most of the series as well and the Spurs always took a huge lead in the first half. not to take away from tim duncan, because he was incredible this year, but i've seen how poorly he plays against shaq when shaq is healthy. </div> foul trouble? that's only because the refs were actually calling fouls on him. Shaq should be in foul trouble every other game. he might as well get away with murder. crap. there's a really bad storm here. i'll argue more when it's over. dont want my computer to fry.</div> yes please respond with more, i'm going to rip you hard on this one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post">i never said kobe deserved it. i said KG deserved the MVP. KG had a better year than Duncan and KG lead his team to a 4th seed despite not having wally.</div> thats not nessecarily true. the only area where KG had a significantly better reg season was assists. he had 6 duncan had 3 but come the playoffs duncan was an assist machine so that deosnt count for much. KG had one half more of a rebound per game than duncan. not that much. ducnan though scored more points and had more blocks with a better field goal percentage. duncan also led his team to the number one seed and then to the title. he deserved the mvp
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "slamduncan21":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "shapecity":</div><div class="quote_post">and duncan killed an INJURED lakers team. let's not forget that. Shaq was in foul trouble for most of the series as well and the Spurs always took a huge lead in the first half. not to take away from tim duncan, because he was incredible this year, but i've seen how poorly he plays against shaq when shaq is healthy. </div> foul trouble? that's only because the refs were actually calling fouls on him. Shaq should be in foul trouble every other game. he might as well get away with murder. crap. there's a really bad storm here. i'll argue more when it's over. dont want my computer to fry.</div> yes please respond with more, i'm going to rip you hard on this one.</div> haha. what's so wrong about what i said? the refs have given shaq his own set of rules. he's allowed to knock opponents over at will. i know that's the nature of his game, being as he's huge, but it's a little extreme.
shaq gets NO LOVE from the refs. this guy is fouled before, during, and after every play. he has guys draping on him, wrapping their arms on him, and using two hands on the back. according to the rules all of that is illegal. the refs let defenders get away with plenty when they guard shaq. the nba even changed the rules to allow zone defense just to stop shaq in the paint. it's absolutely ridiculous how much he gets fouled. and people flop more often than not when they get near shaq. it's the only way to stop him, he is extremely powerful so of course it looks like he is charging, but in reality it's just the defender doesn't have the mass or strength to absorb shaq. he outweighs must big men by 80 lbs. that's a lot to overcome, just imagine playing against someone 80lbs lighter than yourself. there is no way they could handle you when you made your move. but of course the nba isn't going to call a foul everytime even though they should. i have to respect shaq for not blowing his top. if i got hacked like he did i would start throwing punches and elbows.
yea shaq doesnt get THAT much love from the refs thogu i think he gets enough for the things he gets away with on occasion. Its kobe whos the refs golden fuk boy
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "the MDE":</div><div class="quote_post"><div class="quote_poster">Quoting "purehoops":</div><div class="quote_post">- KG more triple doubles, and double doubles than Kobe (regardless of size) - KG can take over a game, TD can take over and game, Iverson, Pierce, Shaq, McGrady, so dont gimme that he can take over games better... you owned no one... you think you did because you refuse to see the real facts...</div> First of all, thefranchise3--Duncan winning MVP in 2003 was fraud. KG and Kobe were better. Duncan is the NBA's new golden boy. Anyways, your point about KG having more triple dubbs than Kobe is way off. Kobe actually led the NBA in td's (he had 2 straight early in the season) before Shaq came back. Thus your idea is invalid. KG just passes it around to Wally or a jump-shooter and gets assists. Who could Kobe dish off to? An injured Devean George? A suspended Rick Fox? An injured and overweight Shaq? Old crusty vet Tracy Murray? ha! Janerro Pargo, Kareem Rush, Soumalia Samake? (all rookies) Samaki Walker aka fumble-hands?! No way. Kobe has mad game. Next, could Stockton take over a game even though he was great? No, Stockton couldn't score 40 any time he wants.. Alot of the games early in the season were close losses. Almost beat the Spurs on opening night but were rusty. Frikkin Soumy Samake was starting... Couldda beaten the Celts on the road in OT...lost to the Wizards on the road when lucky Stackhouse dunked it at the buzzer. It took awhile to win even when Shaq was in the lineup. Not Kobe's fault. Last, Kobe could be even better if he didn't have to share with Shaq every game. Kobe held the team together like glue while Shaq was gone. Also Kobe could showcase his skillz if he didn't have to be the distributor and if Phil Jackson didn't tell him to pass or shoot every other game... So YES you were </div> Duncan isnt the NBAs new golden boy... its Kobe and you and I both know these... people praise him every night like hes god.. everythin in bold is <u>WRONG</u> Wally was injured... so how could KG pass to him? Did he throw the ball outta bounds and get an assist for it instead of a TO? KG lead the L in Triple Doubles... what are you talkin bout the Kobe did? Closes losses still = loses... Kobe will avg maybe 30 pts and 5 asists without Shaq... but he would never make the playoffs without him... everyone knows this... there is no way he could score 40 points every game... he would need to do that to win without Shaq... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "Slay_Can_Play":</div><div class="quote_post"> KG can't score as well as him or pass as well as Kobe. He's a better rebounder, but inch for inch I would take Kobe as a better rebounder.</div> There is no rebounded inch for inch better than KG... the main is a frail lil twig and he jumps among trees to rip rebounds outta the air... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "Slay_Can_Play":</div><div class="quote_post">His streak of 40+ point games was incredible. It wasn't just a "hot streak" either.</div>' Everything you say in your post has a valid point except this... you think Kobe could average 40 pts a season? You must be crazy... the fact was 2 of those 40 point games were against the Nuggets if Im not mistaken... there is no way Kobe could average 40 points a game without or without Shaq...
nuggets actually had a strong defense last season. they ranked 9th in points per game allowed, they just sucked at the offensive end. i think kobe could lead a team to the playoffs without shaq, he might even be able to win the championship without him. it just depends on who else is on the team. kobe can be the #1 option and win it all, but we won't know until this actually happens. we might find out if he doesn't re-sign. but either way this holds no value until it happens. as for triple doubles last season KG had 6 and Kobe had 5 and Kidd was third with 4. averaging 40 points per game and playing the required amount of games to make it count is near impossible. averaging 30ppg is hard enough. last year was the first time in 10 or 15 years two players averaged 30ppg. i think jordan and wilkens were the last to do it in the same season.
