I dont know if this board gets traffic or not, but I will try to post in here more, as I am a die hard Bulls fan.........but here it goes: Memphis has added more to their glut of G's and wingmen via the draft and FA. Draft: Troy Bell Dahntay Jones Bell will be backing up Jason Williams, and this is a very good backup PG. I believe Bell will make a very good PG in this league. West chose Jones, which was a bit questionable IMO, but he is the GM, and he knows more than me, so..... Then they signed James Posey. They traded Gooden last season for Mike Miller, who will be there starting SF. Wing Players as of now: James Posey Mike Miller Shane Battier Dahntay Jones Wesley Person Theron Smith(if he makes the active roster) Mike Batiste(FA) That is overdoing that position. Now what do they need? Beef inside. Preferably a low post scorer. Right now, Gasol, Wright, Swift, and Trebanski are their low post players. Trebanski is still raw. They could use another post player, someone who is a good low post scorer. Now we need to find a team that has a glut of post players. Taa-daa. Enter Chicago. Tyson Chandler Eddy Curry Mario Austin Lonny Baxter Donyell Marshall Marcus Fizer What does Chicago need? Someone who can shoot and defend, a role player, at the 2/3. Shane Battier is that. West seems to have his defensive wing(Posey), shooting wing(Person), and scoring/shooting wing(Miller). That covers the premises of what he may consider to be ideal. Plus he has athleticism in Jones off the bench. And I find it hard to believe he drafted Jones with a 1st rounder to trade/rot on the bench. Shane Battier seems to be the odd man out. So I think a Shane Battier/Marcus Fizer swap could be in the works, or at least I hope so. Memphis adds a low post option and some depth upfront. Chicago adds a capable role player who can defend and shoot at the wing(and be groomed to take over for Pippen). Memphis: C Wright/Swift/Trebanski PF Gasol/Fizer/Swift SF Miller/Person/Jones SG Posey/Person/Jones PG Williams/Bell/Watson Chicago: C Curry/Blount(FA?) PF Chandler/Marshall/Baxter SF Pippen/Battier/Robinson SG Rose/Battier/Mason Jr PG Crawford/Hinrich/Mason Jr Now, Id like to see Chicago sign DeClerq to the LLE. Hes probably the best, cheap backup C we can get. And it means no Corie Blount. I am all for this. To me, this seems like we round out our(Chicago) lineup well. And it seems to round out Memphis' as well. Will it happen? Thoughts? Comments?
Hmmm...it definitely looks like a deal between these two teams could work. There was so much talk about a draft-day deal however, that it seems like a deal would've gone down by now- given that neither were major players in the free-agent market. Battier is easily Memphis' most tradeable commodity and Chicago would love to have him. He could learn a bundle splitting minutes with Scottie Pippen for a year before stepping into a starting role. I'm not so sure Fizer is a good fit in Memphis and West could probably command a bit more than Fizer for Battier- not much more, but considering that Jones is a rookie that most expected to go in the 2nd round there won't be tons of pressure to play him a lot right away. In short, If Fizer was all they were offering for Battier, I think West would hold out for a bit more...see who is available come the trade deadline. Battier, plus Wesley Person's 7,700,000 expiring deal could bring in a more prestigious front-court player than Fizer. They also have Bryant Rheeves 14.4 million dollar deal coming off the books that could also be used in a trade. I think you're on to something here because the teams have talked trade recently, and their needs match up- but I think that West will wait and see what's available come the Deadline. Most teams are more content to stay put in the off-season than during the mid-season. If a team expecting to contend for a playoff spot is struggling badly come February (say, Portland, Boston, or Seattle) and decides to rebuild- Battier, Earl Watson, a 1st rounder and either Person or Rheeve's expiring deal(s) could land Memphis a star player. At the very least a borderline all-star such as Jerry Stackhouse or Antawn Jamison could be had for such a package- Maybe even a Rasheed Wallace or Ray Allen would be available depending on how sweet West would be willing to make the deal. I had heard whispers on Draft Day that Lorenzen Wright or Stromile Swift, Earl Watson and the #13 + a pair of 2nd rounders were headed for Chicago for Donyell Marshall and the #7. Then West backed down after Miami picked Dwyane Wade. Whether it was true or not is hard to say but a similar deal could be in the works involving a similar package from both sides with Battier and Chicago's 1st rounder tossed in. The lesson, as always, is that I'm babbling and that anything is possible. Nice post by the way!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PacerB53:</div><div class="quote_post">With Scottie Pippen where would Battie play?</div> Remember that the Triangle doesn't use positions in a traditional manner and that since Pippen and Battier can both defend the 2, 3 and most 1's it should't be a problem. Especially since Pippen is probably too old to play more than 30 minutes a night. The only way minutes become a problem is if Eddie Robinson starts lighting it up.- Of course, thats not likely to happen and if it does then the need for a player like Battier would be greatly reduced and the deal probably wouldn't go down.
Thanks for the compliment Rocko. I think a 1st rounder might be a little stiff combined with Fizer for Battier. The Bulls were a 30 win team last season, good(or bad) enough for the 7th pick. This team could still be lottery bound, and a lottery pick plus Fizer is a bit steep for Battier, a consumate role player. Could Chicago use him? Definetly. The pick would have to be severly protected for that to happen.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rocko220:</div><div class="quote_post">Remember that the Triangle doesn't use positions in a traditional manner and that since Pippen and Battier can both defend the 2, 3 and most 1's it should't be a problem. Especially since Pippen is probably too old to play more than 30 minutes a night. The only way minutes become a problem is if Eddie Robinson starts lighting it up.- Of course, thats not likely to happen and if it does then the need for a player like Battier would be greatly reduced and the deal probably wouldn't go down.</div> Also to add in, Rose would be the 2G on defense. Pippen the 3, Crawford the 1. But on offense its murkier bec, as you stated, the triangle offense. But if you look at the general basis of last season of how these 3 players played the best on offense it goes like this: Crawford at SG Pippen at PG Rose at SG/SF Crawford does well at PG, don't get me wrong, but he was doing well coming off screens, hitting open J's, much like a traditional SG does. And since it is the triangle offense, there is no "true PG" in that sense. But Pippen was the Point Forward of the Bulls running the triangle back in the 90's, and I expect similar type of playing style with him back in Chicago. Crawford, the best shooter of the 3(Rose isn't....Pippen is ok), would fill the Paxson/Kerr role when playing. Its going to be a bit tough, bec. before, they often posted their SG, MJ. With this team, neither Crawford nor Rose are much of post up players. And of course, with Curry, the Bulls have an offensive weapon at Center, whereas before, the Center was merely there as a big body. They will run the triangle, but it will have to be a little different, a hybrid if you will, of the triangle they ran in the 90's, similating the Lakers triangle a bit more.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PacerB53:</div><div class="quote_post">With Scottie Pippen where would Battie play?</div> Rose at the 2, Pippen at the 3. Battier backing up both of them. Rose will probably play 35 minutes. Pippen will play 30. 48 min at SG 48 min at SF ---------- 96 min for wing player -65 (slated for both Rose/Pippen) --------- 31 minutes left over. Battier will get a majority. Don't forget, Marshall could sneak in some PT at the 3, as well as Mason Jr at the 2. There is plenty of time for Battier to get. Plus, Pippen will be done in a few years, so we'd have Battier groomed to be the replacement. He does the little things: hustle, defend, hit open shots, rebound. He was the consumate team player at Duke, and I expect him to do the same in the NBA.
I agree that the pick should probably have some sort of protection on it- however remember that those wouldn't be the only players involved in the deal. I have a hunch that West will try to package Battier with one of their expiring deals for a big impact player. As nice as it is to have over 21 million coming off the books, I don't think you'll see free-agents flocking to the land of country music next summer. As great as Graceland may be, its not exactly Miami or L.A. and Memphis is a looong way to go from being a contender. I think West would be smart to try and pry away a star from a struggling team. Battier for Fizer makes sense- but Memphis needs to make a serious move, swapping out Battier for a need smoothes out their roster- but how many ball-games does it win them? And how effective can Fizer be, banging with the league's premiere post players every night. Even when Denver roles into town there is still Nene Hilario and Marcus Camby to deal with. West has the oppertunity to grab a star player with all the expiring money he has on his plate this year and unless he believes he can lure a top free-agent....I believe he will hold on to his tradeable pieces unless some big names are dropped.
the problem i see with Battier is that i dont think he's gonna get any better, talent wise. the only way his game will improve is by becoming experienced. i don't think he'll ever blow us away. if the Bulls do pick him up, we'll have to do something about Eddie Robinson. i envisioned Pippen trying to teach ERob a few things before retiring, but adding another SF would create log jam. i wouldn't mind picking up Battier, but i think the Bulls should then try and get rid of Robinson. i think Fizer would be a big help off the bench in Memphis. he's a great post up player. his only problem is lack of height. he might get burned on defence a couple times too many also. other than that, he should be ok as long as his knee is alright.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rocko220:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree that the pick should probably have some sort of protection on it- however remember that those wouldn't be the only players involved in the deal. I have a hunch that West will try to package Battier with one of their expiring deals for a big impact player. As nice as it is to have over 21 million coming off the books, I don't think you'll see free-agents flocking to the land of country music next summer. As great as Graceland may be, its not exactly Miami or L.A. and Memphis is a looong way to go from being a contender. I think West would be smart to try and pry away a star from a struggling team. Battier for Fizer makes sense- but Memphis needs to make a serious move, swapping out Battier for a need smoothes out their roster- but how many ball-games does it win them? And how effective can Fizer be, banging with the league's premiere post players every night. Even when Denver roles into town there is still Nene Hilario and Marcus Camby to deal with. West has the oppertunity to grab a star player with all the expiring money he has on his plate this year and unless he believes he can lure a top free-agent....I believe he will hold on to his tradeable pieces unless some big names are dropped.</div> I dont think Memphis will be able to land a superstar for Battier and expiring contracts. Superstars are hard to come by and aren't traded often. What kind of players are traded? Stars and role players. Overpaid stars are often attempted to be traded. Atlanta wants to save cap, so SAR could be on the block. But would Memphis want him back? Doubt it. You would have to look at players at that level or below. And I dont think West would want to waste 10+ million/season on someone like SAR. What he does need, as you said, was a superstar. Kobe Bryant fits that. Wouldn't it make such a great story, Kobe going to play for West again..... It could happen, especially if Kobe has to register as a sex offender(should the whole Kobe scandal blow up even more so). He might not want to, and Memphis would have to be on the top of his list. With a young team in Memphis, cap room, West himself in office, it might lure talented stars to the Grizzlies. Gasol, Williams, Miller, Posey(if signed) is a nice nucleus. Memphis would be better of trying to lure a FA or 2 next season, preferably, over "settling" for a SAR type, someone who has shown that he can come up with stats, but not wins.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting slamduncan21:</div><div class="quote_post">the problem i see with Battier is that i dont think he's gonna get any better, talent wise. the only way his game will improve is by becoming experienced. i don't think he'll ever blow us away. if the Bulls do pick him up, we'll have to do something about Eddie Robinson. i envisioned Pippen trying to teach ERob a few things before retiring, but adding another SF would create log jam. i wouldn't mind picking up Battier, but i think the Bulls should then try and get rid of Robinson. i think Fizer would be a big help off the bench in Memphis. he's a great post up player. his only problem is lack of height. he might get burned on defence a couple times too many also. other than that, he should be ok as long as his knee is alright.</div> The problem with your ERob/Pippen coaching idea is that Robinson has yet to show anything that makes him worthwhile to keep. He is a great practice player, as many players have reported, often making J's, making plays, etc. Come game time, its the same misery. I dont think Pippen will make much of a difference. The person I am hoping he will make a difference in is Rose. Someone needs to tell Rose that some of his shots are horrible. Pippen will. Pippen will get in Rose's face, something that no one has done yet in Chicago. Battier is a lot like the guy in your avatar in the sense that both were pretty polished players coming out of college. Obviously Duncan has improved, but both players were considered polished players. There is always room to improve. Battier will. I doubt Battier will ever be a star, but thats not needed on this team if Curry and Chandler develop the way they are supposed to. What Battier would provide is hustle, defense, rebounding, and points if needed. Imagine a Rodman, if you will. I am not comparing Battier's defense to Rodman's defense, nor his rebounding, nor his hustle. I am comparing their roles. Rodman was an intregal part in the Bulls system. Battier would be as well. Rodman often did the little things to help the Bulls win, as does Battier. For that, Id love to acquire Battier. Plus, in a few years, or perhaps after this year should Pippen retire, we'd have our starting 3. ERob has had chances. He has shown nothing. Battier is a solid shooter. Not great, but someone we can trust to make shots. Thats something we need on the perimeter. Something that ERob hasn't shown.
These teams make good trade partners. But if I am Chicago I would make a strong offer for Ginobili. The Spurs need to revamp their roster and the Bulls can offer them a lot of depth to fill out their bench. The Bulls have the big players the Spurs need to defend their title, and the Spurs still have a chance to re-sign SJax to play the 2. The Bulls could take Gino & Rose's large contract in exchange for Hinrich, Marshall, & Fizer. The Spurs get a backup PG in Hinrich, and insurance in case Parker bolts or gets injured. Hinrich is capable of running a team already. Marshall gives them a low post scorer and is a solid shot blocker to go along with Duncan & Rasho. Fizer gives them bulk off the bench and would take the place of Rose. These trades would not effect the current starting lineups. Spurs Roster -------------- PG - Parker SG - SJax (assuming he stays) SF - Bowen PF - Duncan C - Rasho Bench - Fizer, Marshall, Hinrich Bulls ---------------- PG - Crawford SG - Rose SF - Pippen PF - Chandler C - Curry Bench - M. Rose, Gino
Unfortunately Greg Popovich has said that Manu Ginobli is not going anywhere and I'm inclined to believe him on this one. Trading a cheap playoff hero is usually a bad idea. Also, If Terrell Brandon's 11.5 million dollar deal plus Marc Jackson was enough to land Latrell Spreewell then Bryant Reeves 14.4 million dollar deal + Shane Battier, plus the Grizzlies 1st rounder and Earl Watson (which is what I mentioned above) would evoke some pretty big names from teams looking to get younger and clear some cap space.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">These teams make good trade partners. But if I am Chicago I would make a strong offer for Ginobili. The Spurs need to revamp their roster and the Bulls can offer them a lot of depth to fill out their bench. The Bulls have the big players the Spurs need to defend their title, and the Spurs still have a chance to re-sign SJax to play the 2. The Bulls could take Gino & Rose's large contract in exchange for Hinrich, Marshall, & Fizer. The Spurs get a backup PG in Hinrich, and insurance in case Parker bolts or gets injured. Hinrich is capable of running a team already. Marshall gives them a low post scorer and is a solid shot blocker to go along with Duncan & Rasho. Fizer gives them bulk off the bench and would take the place of Rose. These trades would not effect the current starting lineups. Spurs Roster -------------- PG - Parker SG - SJax (assuming he stays) SF - Bowen PF - Duncan C - Rasho Bench - Fizer, Marshall, Hinrich Bulls ---------------- PG - Crawford SG - Rose SF - Pippen PF - Chandler C - Curry Bench - M. Rose, Gino</div> Well, the Spurs wont trade Manu. I don't know if you heard or not, but reportedly the Spurs will be acquiring Hedo Turkoglu and Ron Mercer, both in their last year of contracts, and giving up a resigned Stephen Jackson. Here's the latest news: ESPN.com senior NBA writer Marc Stein: Indiana, Sacramento and San Antonio are on the verge of a three-team trade that would send Brad Miller to the Kings, ESPN.com has learned. The deal would foil attempts by Utah and Denver to sign the free-agent center. The deal calls for Indiana to sign Miller to a multiyear deal and ship him to the Kings, who consider him the ideal long-term replacement for Vlade Divac, the 35-year-old center entering the final year of his contract. As part of the exchange, Indiana would receive Scot Pollard as a replacement for Miller, after the Pacers determined that they couldn't absorb the luxury-tax implications of meeting Miller's money demands. The deal would have to involve at least one more player to satisfy salary-cap requirements and it was not immediately known whom the Spurs would be including. As the trade is constructed, the Spurs would receive swingmen Hedo Turkoglu and Ron Mercer as potential replacements for free agent Stephen Jackson. Turkoglu and Mercer are both in the final year of their contracts, preserving San Antonio's salary-cap flexibility for next summer when it must re-sign Manu Ginobili. Jackson is seeking a long-term deal. So it looks like Manu will be kept in SA.
^^ how about Walker or Pierce for Rocco's package? Yes I saw the trade rumor, but it did not previously mention, which Spurs were involved in the deal. Manu is probably untouchable, but we have all heard those words before, and any player can be 'had' for the right price. Besides, Pop, is not the person who would make the decision to trade Gino.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rocko220:</div><div class="quote_post">Unfortunately Greg Popovich has said that Manu Ginobli is not going anywhere and I'm inclined to believe him on this one. Trading a cheap playoff hero is usually a bad idea. Also, If Terrell Brandon's 11.5 million dollar deal plus Marc Jackson was enough to land Latrell Spreewell then Bryant Reeves 14.4 million dollar deal + Shane Battier, plus the Grizzlies 1st rounder and Earl Watson (which is what I mentioned above) would evoke some pretty big names from teams looking to get younger and clear some cap space.</div> True, but Latrell Sprewell is hardly a superstar. Take a look at todays superstars: Pierce Iverson McGrady Bryant Duncan Nowitzki Garnett Kidd Allen O'Neal None of those teams are looking to trade those players. Other stars: Brand O'Neil(Indiana) Marion Lewis Francis Davis They have resigned within the past year and until now. Those teams aren't interested in moving them. Players like Allan Houston and Abdur Rahim would be available. Would West take on those type of players? I don't think so. Thats why he might be willing to gamble on FA. West is a well known figure.......plenty of players would love to play for him. He's probably willing to bank on that.
I don't think Pierce is going anywhere- He's a pretty special player and probably not someone you trade without getting a superstar in return. Walker would be more realistic. Ainge isn't sold on him, however I don't see them building for the future. They are a team that wants to deal a star for a star. A rebuilding package probably wouldn't tempt them- but the concept is fair. How about that package for Antawn Jamison and Mickael Pietrus? It would help the Warriors clear out a logjam at SG, gives them depth at the 1 and 3 as well as cap flexibility and tons of room to improve in the draft. Memphis gets the guy they wanted in this year's draft in Pietrus + a serious scoring threat to play with Pau Gasol. I don't think it would crowd the paint much since both are fairly effective high-post players. Mike Dunleavy's name could get evoked as well. He's been a long time favorite of Jerry West.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ how about Walker or Pierce for Rocco's package? Yes I saw the trade rumor, but it did not previously mention, which Spurs were involved in the deal. Manu is probably untouchable, but we have all heard those words before, and any player can be 'had' for the right price. Besides, Pop, is not the person who would make the decision to trade Gino.</div> Pierce and Walker? Celtic fans would cause mutiny. Pierce especially. He is on the verge of superstardom. What possible reason would the Celtics want to dump him(and yes, Battier, 1st, and cap room for him would be dumping him). Walker is an intregal part of the Celtics. There is no way that deal happens. It would reduce the C's to a lottery team. It would be a PR disaster(and teams do care about PR.......check the Blazers who are trying to revamp their PR). None of Rocco's deals come close to obtaining Walker or Pierce. Abdur Rahim? Yes. Atlanta wants to dump cap. But Abdur Rahim/Gasol frontcourt would be horrendous on defense. Offensively, it would be fine, but it would be killed on defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rocko220:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think Pierce is going anywhere- He's a pretty special player and probably not someone you trade without getting a superstar in return. Walker would be more realistic. Ainge isn't sold on him, however I don't see them building for the future. They are a team that wants to deal a star for a star. A rebuilding package probably wouldn't tempt them- but the concept is fair. How about that package for Antawn Jamison and Mickael Pietrus?</div> GS drafted Pietrus for a reason. They aren't sold on JRich anymore. Dunleavy was drafted last year to pair up with Jamison. This team isn't in rebuild mode. They are in the process of trying to make the playoffs, which will now be more difficult w/o Arenas. I don't see GS dumping Jamison yet, as he as of now is their most polished offensive weapon. This team is going to struggle to score w/o Arenas. Someone of the Dunleavy, Richardson, Murphy tandem will have to step up. Losing Arenas has hurt them badly. Maybe they would rebuild. But why would Memphis do this? Jamison is an undersized 4 who struggles on premier PF's defending them. He cant stay with opposing quick 3's. He is a tweener. And overpaid. Memphis is trying to dump cap for FA. Jamison isn't a good enough enticement to lose their cap room.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rocko220:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think Pierce is going anywhere- He's a pretty special player and probably not someone you trade without getting a superstar in return. Walker would be more realistic. Ainge isn't sold on him, however I don't see them building for the future. They are a team that wants to deal a star for a star. A rebuilding package probably wouldn't tempt them- but the concept is fair. How about that package for Antawn Jamison and Mickael Pietrus? It would help the Warriors clear out a logjam at SG, gives them depth at the 1 and 3 as well as cap flexibility and tons of room to improve in the draft. Memphis gets the guy they wanted in this year's draft in Pietrus + a serious scoring threat to play with Pau Gasol. I don't think it would crowd the paint much since both are fairly effective high-post players.</div> Since you added to this post, I will respond to the latter half. West was using Pietrus as a smoke screen. He really wanted Wade. Reports have been out about this. He was trying to hype Pietrus to land Wade. There was a rumor of a Memphis/Chicago trade as someone has already said, that would have given the Grizzlies the Bulls pick, but after Miami drafted Wade, the deal was pulled off the table.
