I seriously don't know how people can think the Spurs are better than the Lakers this season. The Lakers obviously improved as they recruited 2 of the best players around, both all-stars. For the final time the SPURS DID NOT IMPROVE!! I'm sick of hearing it time and time again, but the SPURS DID NOT IMPROVE. I don't know how you can say they did. David Robinson is one of the best all-time centres in NBA history and he was so valuable the Spurs especially defensively and Nesterovic is not even a quarter of what Robinson was. I made a spreadsheet comparing the 6 most influencial/most minutes played people who were in the 02/03 team but are no longer in the 03/04 team as compared to the new players for 03/04. Results are at the very bottom. I have included a per 48MIN statistic which basically determines an average player from the totals of the 6 people and determines what his statistics would be per 48 minutes. This is effectively what the team brings to the table which can be compared accurately because it's based on the same number of minutes played. SPURS 02/03 PPG RPG APG SPG BPG MPG D.Robinson 8.5 7.9 1 0.81 1.73 26.2 S.Jackosn 11.8 3.6 2.3 1.56 0.38 28.2 S.Claxton 5.8 1.9 2.5 0.73 0.23 15.7 S.Kerr 4 0.8 0.9 0.36 0.04 12.7 S.Smith 6.8 1.9 1.3 0.53 0.17 19.5 M.Bateer 0.8 0.8 0.3 0 0 3.8 Total 37.7 16.9 8.3 3.99 2.55 106.1 PER 48MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG MPG What team gives 17.05560792 7.645617342 3.754948162 1.805089538 1.153628652 48 2.210416667 SPURS 03/04 PPG RPG APG SPG BPG MPG S.Marks 2.3 1.5 0.1 0.22 0.26 9.7 R.Nesterovic 11.2 6.5 1.5 0.51 1.51 30.1 A.Carter 4.1 1.7 4.1 0.92 0.1 18.6 R. Horry 6.5 6.4 2.9 1.2 0.76 29.3 R. Mercer 7.7 2.1 1.6 0.68 0.19 23.2 H.Turkoglu 6.7 2.8 1.3 0.37 0.18 17.5 Total 38.5 21 11.5 3.9 3 128.4 PER 48MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG MPG What team gives 14.39252336 7.85046729 4.299065421 1.457943925 1.121495327 48 2.675 It appears the 02/03 clearly out scores the 03/04 with 17.1PP48min as compared to 14.4PP48MIN It appears 03/04 outrebounds 02/03 just with 7.85RP48MIN as compared to 7.65RP48MIN It appears 03/04 gets more assists than 02/03 just with 4.3AP48MIN to 3.75AP48MIN It appears 02/03 steals more than 03/04 with 1.81SP48MIN to 1.46SP48MIN It appears 02/03 blocks more than 03/04 with 1.15BP48MIN to 1.12BP48MIN In my opinion the Spurs are about the same as they were last year. These statistics actually show a slight advantage to their team last season rather than this seasons players. I'm just sick of people saying that they are wayyy better of something so I took it upon myself to see if they really are WAYY better this year as some people have suggested. I think the most underrated team this year are the Lakers. IMO anyone who thinks anyone other than the Lakers will win this season is really disrespecting the Lakers. Again I just can't see how the Spurs all of a sudden got soo much better when they lost D.Robinson, S.Jackson, S.Claxton, S.Kerr and probably their most underrated player S.Smith, who was still an excellent shooter and contributor who simply failed to receive enough court time to prove that he wasn't just "too old to play".
They didnt improve on paper, but you never know because stat-based arguments cant be made on the spurs, duncan statwise isnt as good as kobe and shaq together, and he outplayed both of them
With Duncan in their line up, they will always be in contention. They still have a good core coming back with the addition of Ron Mercer. I think they will end up in the top 3 in the West.
I'm just saying the Spurs didn't do much to compete with the teams in the west they stacked up this offseason like: 1. Lakers 2. Timberwolves 3. Mavericks I think if they would have fought for another good pick-up I wouldn't have started this thread, but they didn't do anything compared to those three teams I just mentioned.
Thats true. But like the saying goes "Don't fix what is not broken". This worked for the Lakers, maybe it will work for the Spurs?
You can't say anthing about the Lakers right now because of the Kobe situation. It's out of our hands. All we know is he is in deep "poop" and he looks like "poop" - you decide what word goes there. If I have to place my money on one of these 2, it goes to the Spurs easily. <font size="1">Do we have to talk about this again?</font>
Rasho Horry Hedo Mercer Carter All good players that helped Spurs improve...Sjax's numbers will be replaced by Manu....Also players like Parker and Manu will improve their games....plus the defence is still as great as ever....Tim Duncan the two time defending MVP is still in that line-up....Best bench in the league...better than any of the teams you mentioned...Spurs improved and not just by adding talent..but the young guys will increase their playing time and their stats...You made a very long post there which did not prove the Spurs didn't improve the team.....You fail to take notice of the great team chemistry the Spurs have.. teams like the Lakers,Wolves and Mavs have to prove they have good chemistry....The Spurs defence which is the best in the league is still there....Improving doesn't just mean adding talent to your roster. This topic has been talked about enough anyway...
^ Good post allnet. I think t wolf dawg is slightly blinded on who the spurs added. You seem to think that adding all stars is the only way of improving. Hedo is a great shooter, Rasho will take off where Robinson left. BTW you said Rasho will never be like Robinson WAS, well of course he won't but he'll fill in exactly where Robinson left off, which won't be hard to do. Horry adds some verteran experience comming off the bench, he can teach the young guys some new things, and will be helpful on both sides of the ball when hes playing. Carter will just take Claxton's spot, which won't be hard to fill. Yeah I do think Claxton was a better player, but he mainly got recognition in the final games of their title run. The Spurs chemistry is great, and no one seems to have a problem with sharing the ball, they are an excellent passing and defensive team. There won't be any fights or arguments as to who should get the ball, everyone on that team knows their role and plays it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting T_WOLF_DAWG:</div><div class="quote_post">Damn. I try to start a good conversation and all I get is crap</div> You are getting crap? Where exactly? All I see is we have proved to you that the Spurs did improve the roster on paper...
It's called chemistry. The Spurs' core is back, everyone knows they play extremely well together. Wolves, Dallas and Lakers might have improved on paper, but no one has a clue how they'll all fit together on court during the regular season. Also LA and the Wolves can't match the Spurs' depth, something that will be a big factor with injuries etc, and especially in the playoffs. And they're still the champs til someone knocks em off, so no point making bold predictions yet.
T_WOLF_DOG... If stats were the indicator of how good a team is the Spurs would not have won the Championship last year. There are several teams that have more individual talent than they do. But when you put them together as a team they all work together to get the job done. They are the most unselfish team in the league. The coaching staff has always done a good job of brining in the right players to fill their holes and I think this year will be no exception. All we can do right now is speculate. We will just have to wait and see what happens. This is going to be one of the best NBA seasons ever!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting T_WOLF_DAWG:</div><div class="quote_post">Damn. I try to start a good conversation and all I get is crap</div> Well that was it, it was not a good conversation, and your points were terrible.
It was a good argument by TWolfDawg. Right now you can only base improvement on stats until we see the new product on the court. I also don't think the Spurs improved this off-season. They had a lot of tension with the Jason Kidd ordeal and Tony Parker's statements. They did not get either superstar they wanted to land with Kidd or JO. The Lakers added 2 superstars and the TWolves got a lot more depth in the off-season. The Spurs lost 2 stand out veterans in Robinson and Kerr, and they lost Stephen Jackson. I think they will need time to adjust without having Robinson around.
First off Payton and Malone aren't superstars and are on their way down in their career...They will still be good but they won't get any better....Although you are right on one point...Spurs could start out slow..but then again that happened last season as well...So it would be no surprise to see it happen again. Getting Hedo and Mercer for free (which is what it was) is a real bonus.....Rasho is a good center..A rare one in this league..Sjax was important to the team no doubt..but Manu will replace his numbers.....While getting two decent scorers as I mentioned in Hedo and Mercer shows me the team has improved.
So breaking it down Payton & Malone or Kandi, Cassell, and Spree or Walker, Fortson, and Jamison are not better acquisitions than Rasho, Mercer, and Hedo?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">So breaking it down Payton & Malone or Kandi, Cassell, and Spree or Walker, Fortson, and Jamison are not better acquisitions than Rasho, Mercer, and Hedo?</div> Where in my post did I say they weren't? Just because the Spurs didn't get those so-called big name FA's doesn't mean the roster isn't improved from last season...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">So breaking it down Payton & Malone or Kandi, Cassell, and Spree or Walker, Fortson, and Jamison are not better acquisitions than Rasho, Mercer, and Hedo?</div> Exactly... What is all the sudden hype with Rasho, Rasho is not that great! He is very easily intminated by bigger, more agressive players. Rasho is extremely to passive to play to play the big dawgs in the west... that is why I cherish the signing of Olowokandi, to say the least, he has the balls to play the big boys.
After speaking with my mates in L.A who support the Clips they said how happy they were to see him go....And that starting Parks was a better option....Kandi plays lazy...doesn't care and has a bad attuide...that has to be a worry....At least with Rasho you know you won't have any of that and he knows his role.... Although saying this Kandi and Rasho will both now be playing with players who make their team-mates better...being KG and Duncan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">Where in my post did I say they weren't? Just because the Spurs didn't get those so-called big name FA's doesn't mean the roster isn't improved from last season...</div> By comparing the two teams off season moves. You said Payton and Malone are winding down, but Hedo and Mercer a bonuses. Are Hedo & Mercer & Rasho better than Speedy, SJax, and Robinson? Even if you think the Spurs might have improved, the TWolves, Lakers, and Mavs have made bigger improvements on paper. Which is the point TWolf_Dog was trying to make and a point I agree with.
