<div class="quote_poster">Quoting How_High78:</div><div class="quote_post">Where did the connection from the police to the tee shirt come from? Is there one? I thought the "Hangman" might just be a logo but I looked at the tee-company web site and didn't see that image anywhere else. It's very possible that nothing was meant by the use of the hangman image and that the only connection it has to anything is to the game itself.</div> Apparently the site and the t-shirts were put up to feed off of the publicity during the public hearings. The t-shirts were being sold outside the courthouse. The police then went and ordered some of the shirts so they could sell them and use the proceeds for some charity.
You want blatent racism, follow the Rush Limbaugh situation. Kobe deserves all of this, and this is just a t-shirt company looking for some pub, a smart business move. People everywhere are knocking Kobe, fans and media, and I personally have seen/heard a lot worse than this, but overall it is all light in my opinion. All very weak compared to what went on with Rush. But for Fiyah's sake, does anyone agree with where he is coming from on this? Anyone?
King James that pretty F'd up, "Kobe hung himself." He cheated on his wife, and about 40 percent of males do that. I feel sorry for KOBE. I hope justice is served but i doubt it. I dont think we will ever know what happened, and thats unjust to KOBE.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting YaoMing03-04:</div><div class="quote_post">I feel sorry for KOBE. </div> its this kind of attitude that is flushing this country down the shitter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting YaoMing03-04:</div><div class="quote_post">King James that pretty F'd up, "Kobe hung himself." He cheated on his wife, and about 40 percent of males do that. I feel sorry for KOBE. I hope justice is served but i doubt it. I dont think we will ever know what happened, and thats unjust to KOBE.</div> I mean he has a point here. I am not condoning Kobe cheating on his wife ... but how can we judge the man for doing something so many other married men do (according to the statisitics a majority of the men lambasting Kobe for adultery have committed it themselves). Should he be in toruble for what he did? Yes ... but its his wife who has a say in that ... we have no business in that. He deserves whatever consequence he has to deal with involving family. Legally he doesn't deserve the injustice going on now.
I think that there are a couple things that are flushing your country and I only resent that Canada's being dragged down in the current. That however is a debate for another time and place. Is this t-shirt blatantly racist? No it's not. It's anti-Kobe but it's not racist in and of itself. The Hangman logo is unfortunate but even though black people have been hanged, they certainly don't have the exclusive rights to hating that particular practice. It is detestable and disgusting but not racist inherently. The shirt is in poor taste and I think that the trial is going to be a joke but lets try not to sound the racism horn just yet. I'd like to believe that there are people out there who hate others for reasons loftier than race, sex, religion or creed. I'd like to think that there are t-shirt manufacturers who are simply crude and insensitive and low without necessarily being racist. I don't approve of the shirt, the actions of an undisciplined police force or the actions of everyone's favorite guy named after a steak. Yet I do not want to drag this deeper into the mud. Justice will not be served by turning this into a circus.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting How_High78:</div><div class="quote_post">I think that there are a couple things that are flushing your country and I only resent that Canada's being dragged down in the current. That however is a debate for another time and place. Is this t-shirt blatantly racist? No it's not. It's anti-Kobe but it's not racist in and of itself. The Hangman logo is unfortunate but even though black people have been hanged, they certainly don't have the exclusive rights to hating that particular practice. It is detestable and disgusting but not racist inherently. The shirt is in poor taste and I think that the trial is going to be a joke but lets try not to sound the racism horn just yet. I'd like to believe that there are people out there who hate others for reasons loftier than race, sex, religion or creed. I'd like to think that there are t-shirt manufacturers who are simply crude and insensitive and low without necessarily being racist. I don't approve of the shirt, the actions of an undisciplined police force or the actions of everyone's favorite guy named after a steak. Yet I do not want to drag this deeper into the mud. Justice will not be served by turning this into a circus.</div> I agree with most of what you are saying here. But, like I said before, no one has been able to explain the "coincedence" in them using a hangman symbol as supposed to a jail bar or jail bird costume or handcuffs or something more meaningful and modern. Why the hangman? I am also curious to find out which one of you guys is actually black. Because for years I was taught that there are places in the US where a black man will get hung or lynched for less than what kobe has done. So even if I do concede that the use of the hangman symbol may not be blatant racism but instead gross misjudgement and bias, I absolutely refuse to excuse a police force that does not have the common sense to recognize the insensitivity of using such a symbol. If that shirt was made 40 years ago what do you think it would mean? When you think about it ... 40 years ago is really not that long at all ...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Fiyah:</div><div class="quote_post">I mean he has a point here. I am not condoning Kobe cheating on his wife ... but how can we judge the man for doing something so many other married men do (according to the statisitics a majority of the men lambasting Kobe for adultery have committed it themselves). Should he be in toruble for what he did? Yes ... but its his wife who has a say in that ... we have no business in that. He deserves whatever consequence he has to deal with involving family. Legally he doesn't deserve the injustice going on now.</div> I can see exactly where you're coming from, and I do agree with it to an extent. However, fair or not, there is a difference between Kobe and the average married man. Kobe earns millions upon millions of dollars, he is in the spotlight and he is a role model for a lot of people. It is his responsibility to uphold this image - he is a very famous person who gets a lot of publicity, and regardless of whether 40% of married men cheat or not, it is his responsibility to uphold his image as a role model for a lot of people. Sleeping with a 19 year old, consentedly or unconsentedly, when you're a married megastar who is in the spotlight almost everyday, is just ********. Think about millions of kids who would idolise him, and he'd know that. That said, I think the T-shirts are absolutely sickening, racially motivated or not. But there are certain things that separate Kobe from the average married man and he signed up for them when he followed this career path.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Fiyah:</div><div class="quote_post"> I agree with most of what you are saying here. But, like I said before, no one has been able to explain the "coincedence" in them using a hangman symbol as supposed to a jail bar or jail bird costume or handcuffs or something more meaningful and modern. Why the hangman? I am also curious to find out which one of you guys is actually black. Because for years I was taught that there are places in the US where a black man will get hung or lynched for less than what kobe has done. So even if I do concede that the use of the hangman symbol may not be blatant racism but instead gross misjudgement and bias, I absolutely refuse to excuse a police force that does not have the common sense to recognize the insensitivity of using such a symbol. If that shirt was made 40 years ago what do you think it would mean? When you think about it ... 40 years ago is really not that long at all ... </div> That's another topic. If you bring in the appropriateness of a police force buying and wearing a shirt like this one (exactly like this one actually) then you will have me right there with you saying "no this should not be allowed". I also agree that it reeks of bigotry and is not at all consistent with a defendant being presumed innocent before being proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. I think that with the history of racism and the volatile nature of the subject in the United States we should be able to expect more from the people expected to uphold the law. I think that if as you say the police force in eagle county have bought mass quantities of this shirt then they should be reprimanded quickly. I still don?t think that the word "blatant" can be ascribed to this situation from a racial standpoint. Still it stinks badly enough that it should be cleaned up quickly and with little hesitation.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post"> I can see exactly where you're coming from, and I do agree with it to an extent. However, fair or not, there is a difference between Kobe and the average married man. Kobe earns millions upon millions of dollars, he is in the spotlight and he is a role model for a lot of people. It is his responsibility to uphold this image - he is a very famous person who gets a lot of publicity, and regardless of whether 40% of married men cheat or not, it is his responsibility to uphold his image as a role model for a lot of people. Sleeping with a 19 year old, consentedly or unconsentedly, when you're a married megastar who is in the spotlight almost everyday, is just ********. Think about millions of kids who would idolise him, and he'd know that. </div> I can see where you?re coming from but as much as we might like there to be there are not a separate set of laws for role models. In theory there should be no difference in how Kobe is tried to how another man in a similar situation would be. It will not go down like that but the law is the law. Being a celebrity should not make a difference here. The fact that it does have baring here is unfortunate and shows the frailty of the American Justice System. Kobe is being tried as a Rapist not as one who has disillusioned a nation of kids and basketball fans.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting How_High78:</div><div class="quote_post">I can see where you’re coming from but as much as we might like there to be there are not a separate set of laws for role models. In theory there should be no difference in how Kobe is tried to how another man in a similar situation would be. It will not go down like that but the law is the law. Being a celebrity should not make a difference here. The fact that it does have baring here is unfortunate and shows the frailty of the American Justice System. Kobe is being tried as a Rapist not as one who has disillusioned a nation of kids and basketball fans.</div> I'm referring to the comparison of Kobe to the 40% of males who commit adultery, not the rape trial. And I'm not saying it should be a different situation, but fair or not it is a different situation because he is a celebrity. I don't agree that the average man should have a different set of rules to how he conducts himself to a celebrity, but like it or not that is the way it is. Kobe knows his position, and he has a responsibility to set an example and not screw up. If he doesn't like that then he should retire - but being a celebrity has it's downsides as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Fiyah:</div><div class="quote_post">Because for years I was taught that there are places in the US where a black man will get hung or lynched for less than what kobe has done...</div> Really where? any specific places that you know of? Anything recently?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm referring to the comparison of Kobe to the 40% of males who commit adultery, not the rape trial. And I'm not saying it should be a different situation, but fair or not it is a different situation because he is a celebrity. I don't agree that the average man should have a different set of rules to how he conducts himself to a celebrity, but like it or not that is the way it is. Kobe knows his position, and he has a responsibility to set an example and not screw up. If he doesn't like that then he should retire - but being a celebrity has it's downsides as well. </div> Ok, that?s clear. Got it. I agree that celebrities have a responsibility to hold themselves accountable for their actions (I think the same thing about "normal" people to so?) Thank you for your argument! I truly appreciate the discussion. You too Fiya!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">But for Fiyah's sake, does anyone agree with where he is coming from on this? Anyone? </div> i agree with most of what he's saying. Kobe was wrong for cheating on his wife, but that's not for us to judge him. That's for his family and God. I'm sorry to hear some of you guys here say "guilty or not, Kobe deserves what he's getting." That's a sickening way of thinking. NOBODY deserves this garbage... You guys seem to forget the man is human. I've made mistakes in my life and i would hate for ONE incident to overrule everything positive that i've done. Michael Jordan cheated on his wife, Magic Johnson cheated on his wife, WOULD YOU SAY THEY DESERVE WHAT KOBE's GOING THROUGH TOO?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BBall Guru:</div><div class="quote_post">Really where? any specific places that you know of? Anything recently?</div> Just so you know ... this is one of the more recent cases: http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:CknpN...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 <font face="Verdana"><font color="#ff0000">June/July 2003:</font></font><font color="#999999"><font face="Verdana"> <font size="2">American Lynching Co-Producer Gode Davis traveled to Springfield, Missouri on a low-key research trip to see what he could learn about the death of 27-year-old Leonard Gakinya. Gakinya, a Kenyan immigrant, was found hanging from a microwave communications tower on the morning of October 2, 2002. On the day his body was found, authorities labeled Gakinya's death a "clear-cut" suicide -- but inconsistencies about the case remain troubling.</font></font></font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BBall Guru:</div><div class="quote_post">Really where? any specific places that you know of? Anything recently?</div> Just in case you wanted another one: http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/jun1998/byrd-j13.shtml Racial violence and the social forces in America that fuel it By Martin McLaughlin 13 June 1998 The sadistic murder of a middle-aged black man in Texas last week is an indication of the savagery which lies just beneath the surface of American life. James Byrd, Jr., 49, was beaten unconscious, chained to the back of a pickup truck and dragged for miles over rural roads outside the town of Jasper. Three white men, John William King, 23, Shawn Berry 23, and Lawrence Brewer Jr., 31, have been arrested. Berry has already given a confession that implicates the other two as the principal assailants. Both King and Brewer had links to white supremacist groups while serving terms in state prison. In the course of the killing King reportedly made a reference to the "Turner Diaries," a fascistic novel which was in the possession of Timothy McVeigh when he was arrested for his role in the Oklahoma City bombing.
And if you want specific hints of racism withing Colorado itself ... even before the Kobe Bryant debacle these supremacists have been going on membership drives in the Colorado area ... http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/12/racist.fliers/ White supremacist group distributes racist fliers <font size="1">Wednesday, August 13, 2003 Posted: 0240 GMT (10:40 AM HKT) </font> <font size="1"></font>Story Tools window.onerror=function(){clickURL=document.location.href;return true;} if(!self.clickURL) clickURL=parent.location.href; RELATED <font color="#000099">Southern Poverty Law Center</font> EAGLE, Colorado (AP) -- Racist fliers were scattered Tuesday on lawns and windshields in the town where basketball star Kobe Bryant is set to go on trial on sexual assault charges.
I can see the racial thing. Blacks were hung during the civil rights movement. There is a "hangman" on the front of the t-shirt. Put 2 and 2 together. Its not bec. he "hung himself either." As far as the whole Kobe Bryant thing is going....I hope justice is served. Meaning if he is innocent, I hope he is acquitted. If he is guilty, I hope he goes to prison. If it was consensual sex, I do feel bad for the Bryant family. There names have been drug through mud over this.
I guess we have to ask ourselves if we're willing to take on making a difference and taking a stand that this will not happen anymore. I think now is as good a time as any to work for peace and understanding in our countries. Stories like these disgust me and sadden me. Freedom implies peace. Freedom implies justice. Freedom implies understanding. Fiyah has made it clear that there is a greater issue than these shirts or Kobe or even one specific race. The greater issue is that of freedom and the ability and right to live in a world free of persecution and hate based on race. I mean really! How long is it going to take for us to heal this? Thank you Fiyah for posting politically conscious content. My request now is that we take this and learn from it and not expand it beyond measure. My request is that we unite and realize that we are living a dream at JBB. We judge people as much as possible based solely on their thoughts and power to communicate would that the whole world was like this.
"Over 400 people joined a class action suit in Colorado that documented how, from 1988 to 1990, police in Eagle County stopped Black and Latino motorists along Interstate 70 solely because they "fit a profile." http://rwor.org/a/v21/1010-019/1018/racprof1.htm
