<div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-Ball215:</div><div class="quote_post">^gilbert arenas over carter... that is a joke.</div> Arenas will be the premiere point guard in the league. He's the fastest player in the NBA and can score 20+ on any night. He's a triple threat player, averaging 20-5-5 and a better defender than Vince. Arenas is a franchise player you can build around and is only 21. Arenas is putting up similar numbers, costs less, and is 5 years younger than Vince.
why do u guys hate Vince ?? .. I mean .. No question he's the most hated player in these forums ! Shape .. I was a big fan of ur posts .. and I respect ur BBall knowledge .. but when u say that ( Curry, Stoudmire, Marion, Lebron , Artest, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Manu Ginobli, Marbury, francis,and Arenas ) are better players than Vince Carters .. with all my respect that's called ignorance ! Vince single handedly won 7 games for the Raptors this season .. he does it all .. he became an excelent defender .. does it all .. and after that u say what u said .. I mean " ????? " !
Vince is not an excellent defender, I'm sorry . I would say from that list, I would rather have Vince over Ginobli, Artest, curry, and arenas. But I agree with Shape on the others. I dont hate Vince at all, I liked him at UNC over Jamison (of cousre, Jamison got all the hype). I just think he's a 2nd tier player, very good but not great. He takes some bad shots, he's not a good defender (this is effort issue I believe), and he doesn't make others around him any better. He's a great scorer, and he reminds me of a Dominique Wilkins (yes, i know this is an overused comparison). He's also getting older so you can see how some people (like Shapecity) would rather have Lebron, or Amare. They aren't better than Vince rite now, but they have more value.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Air Canada:</div><div class="quote_post">why do u guys hate Vince ?? .. I mean .. No question he's the most hated player in these forums ! Shape .. I was a big fan of ur posts .. and I respect ur BBall knowledge .. but when u say that ( Curry, Stoudmire, Marion, Lebron , Artest, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Manu Ginobli, Marbury, francis,and Arenas ) are better players than Vince Carters .. with all my respect that's called ignorance ! Vince single handedly won 7 games for the Raptors this season .. he does it all .. he became an excelent defender .. does it all .. and after that u say what u said .. I mean " ????? " !</div> Don't get it twisted, I am a Vince fan, but if I were starting a new franchise I would take those players over him. Some are a stretch, but I'm taking into account the money they make, their youth, and their ability to build a team around them. For a player making $11M this year and having a contract maxing him out at $16M, I expect a lot more production. Curry is in line to be the top center in the league in a couple of years along with Yao Ming. Having a dominant center in the NBA almost guarantees post-season play. He's only 20 years old and makes under $4M a season. LeBron and Amare I also choose for similar reasons. Both will be superstars and both pack the seats and provide plenty of highlights. The difference between these players and Vince, is Vince is not improving, these young kids have shown the desire to get better each game and they play hard each night. Vince is not worth the money he's paid, he's not a leader, and he's not worth the aggravation of having to worry if he's going to make through the entire season or not. So before you call my choices ignorance you should evaluate the entire picture and not the one-on-one talent of Vince versus these players. NBA is a team game and until Vince learns to play within a team I would not want him. Vince never shoulders the responsibility of losing and points the fingers at everyone else. I don't like his selfish, attitude, and I don't like how he spoke out about the Raptors drafting Chris Bosh. Bosh has been one of their best picks in franchise history.
He is hated because you guys stick Vince Carter down our throats as if he is an NBA god. I used to be a fan yes, but his lack of conditioning and dedication to the team has been in question every season. How many games per season has he averaged? You are not getting back what you have put into him, bottom line, end of story.
No Way Eddy Curry is better than Vince. He cant rebound well for someone his size. He has never averaged over 15ppg. I would take Chandler over Curry. I'm an Artest fan but he is not as good as Vince Carter. Ginobili? OMG lol. Paul Pierce hasn't been as good this year and he was in the same situation as Vince (untill the trade). Ben Wallace is a great player but he cannot carry a team like Vince. No Areanas is not as good as Vince. Areanas is hurt now and when Stack comes back his numbers will be down.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">There are at least 23 players I would take ahead of Vince Carter. Here's a breakdown by position. Centers -------- Shaq O'Neal Tim Duncan Yao Ming Jermaine O'neal Eddy Curry Power Forwards -------- Kevin Garnett Dirk Nowitzki Amare Stoudamire Ben Wallace Chris Webber Small Forwards -------- Ron Artest LeBron James Shawn Marion Rasheed Wallace Shooting Guards -------- Kobe Bryant Paul Pierce Allen Iverson Tracy McGrady Manu Ginobilli Point Guards -------- Jason Kidd Stephon Marbury Steve Francis Gilbert Arenas</div> I agree with most of these, but i dont think we are giving carter enough credit. i would take him over Ginobilli(hasn't proven much), Sheed (getting old), C-Web (Coming off of an injury, getting older), and Eddy Curry (too young - came out of high school.. might be good long term, but right now carter is doing more)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kid Canada:</div><div class="quote_post">No Way Eddy Curry is better than Vince. He cant rebound well for someone his size. He has never averaged over 15ppg. I would take Chandler over Curry. I'm an Artest fan but he is not as good as Vince Carter. Ginobili? OMG lol. Paul Pierce hasn't been as good this year and he was in the same situation as Vince (untill the trade). Ben Wallace is a great player but he cannot carry a team like Vince. No Areanas is not as good as Vince. Areanas is hurt now and when Stack comes back his numbers will be down.</div> Eddie Curry has not had the opportunity to average 15ppg. He is more than capable of it though. He shot 58.5% last year, but he only averaged 7 shots a game. If you look at his stats the second half of the season when he played starter minutes he was getting 17 a night. For the month of March he averaged 17 points and 6.7 boards. In April he averaged 20 points and 6.5 boards. And again an emphasis that he is only 20. Shaq doesn't rebound well for his size, but he dominates the league and has rings, Eddy has the opportunity to do the same in a few years. I would take Pierce in a heartbeat over Vince Carter. It's not a matter of these players being better than Vince. Most are not, but you have to realize you are not going to get a player equal to Vince or better than Vince if you trade him. The players I listed are ones I would be willing to get in return for Vince. Trading Vince puts you in a rebuilding stage and the players I listed are the future of the NBA and you can build around them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't get it twisted, I am a Vince fan, but if I were starting a new franchise I would take those players over him</div> I ain't twisting any thing .. u'r the one who said it crystal clear " Those are atleast 23 players I would take ahead of Vince Carter " .. !! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Curry is in line to be the top center in the league in a couple of years</div> Proof ??!! .. that's what we say every year about this kid .. he came to this season overhyped .. and some put the Bulls in their Playoff prediction just because of him .. and nothing so far ! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The difference between these players and Vince, is Vince is not improving, these young kids have shown the desire to get better each game and they play hard each night.</div> what world r u living in ?? .. Vince isn't improving ?? look at his defence now compared to the previous seasons .. look at his leadership compared to previous seasons .. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So before you call my choices ignorance you should evaluate the entire picture and not the one-on-one talent of Vince versus these players</div> and what's the entire picture ?? .. u just named 23 players u said u'd take ahead of Vince .. u didn't clearfy anything !!! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NBA is a team game and until Vince learns to play within a team I would not want him. Vince never shoulders the responsibility of losing and points the fingers at everyone else. I don't like his selfish, attitude</div> u just proved that u don't know anything about the Raptors and Vince !! Vince is selfish ???!!! ( Joke of the year ) he gives up his own stats for the team .. and most of his teammates and KO know that .. according to what they say in interviews! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't like how he spoke out about the Raptors drafting Chris Bosh. Bosh has been one of their best picks in franchise history. </div> what did he say wrong ?? .. he said : " I'd rather trade the pick for a vetaren who can help us right away " nothing seems wrong or bad to me .. he didn't know that Bosh will help right away .. and Chris mentioned many times that Vince is a big part of his devolpment !!!! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince never shoulders the responsibility of losing and points the fingers at everyone else.</div> just one Quote caught my eye when I read what u said .. after the loss vs Milwakee .. " (On trade rumors) That has nothing to do with it. We could come out and win by 20 and everyone would say, oh, they aren?t even worried about it. It is a catch-22 in my opinion. We did not come ready to play, even guys not involved in trade rumors, myself included, did not play with the energy and passion we had last night " - Vince Carter <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and the players I listed are the future of the NBA .</div> Chris Webber is the future of the NBA ?? .. Iverson is ? Shaq is ? Garnett is ? Duncan is ? Wallace is ?
Oakley on Vince "Well, Vince does do a little excess dribbling, too, but he?s more talented than all the young guys out there. I want to see him get his game to the point so that people can have no question about him, offensively or defensively. I think that?s what happened with Jordan, he worked his first couple of years to be more of a scorer, but he didn?t work his way to a championship until his defense got better and better. There?s nothing bad you can say about (Jordan): He played hurt, he took the big shots, he wanted the big shots, got on his teammates. That?s the kind of guy that I like. You?re the man of the team, you can tell your teammates this and that, and your teammates are going to take it. If you want to be that leader, and you want to be the star, you?ve got to take that challenge and take that responsibility. In the league, right now, I don?t think you?ve got a whole lot of guys like that. They?ve got the talent, but they don?t have the guts. The only guys I?ve seen do that are maybe Garnett. I think Kobe?s doing that, speaking up. Shaq. But a lot of guys just play through it." Let's not nit pick and be fecetious, Shaq, Iverson, KG, Duncan, Wallace, Webber are already better than Vince. I argued why I would take the young players over Vince. Vince a leader? Leading his team to losses and 60 point nights. Let's turn back the clock when Vince went down and the team played better without him and made it into the playoffs. Vince has divided this team in half because of his lack of leadership. Vince fans keep wanting to re-live his early on performances, but what has Vince done to improve since then? If anything his game has digressed. He no longer attacks the rim and he takes, too many fade away shots instead of driving and going to the line. Proof on Curry, I already offered proof of what he can do based on how he finished the season last year. You don't see anything wrong in Vince assuming Bosh would not help right away and making a statement like that? A comment like that should have been brought to the GM not the public. Let me spell out the ENTIRE picture for you. The entire picture includes the future success of the team, which player would come in and make an impact, and which player is giving you the bang for the buck. Vince is definately selfish. Do you remember him missing a game to go to his graduation? He has put himself above his teammates numerous times and he wants the glory, but never wants to shoulder the blame when the team loses.
52 games a season coming into this season, ain't going to cut it. How about getting injured, he misses games, then is caught out dancing on that injured leg, sad.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince is definately selfish. Do you remember him missing a game to go to his graduation? He has put himself above his teammates numerous times and he wants the glory, but never wants to shoulder the blame when the team loses.</div> he didn't miss the game .. he went to Chapel Hill for only 2 hours and came back to the team's hotel in Philly and had lunch with him ! BTW .. the quote is old !
I dont think shapecity is saying all those players are better than Vince. Its all about their VALUE. Young players have value. Like it or not, Vince is damaged goods. He's 27 years old and isn't showing any signs of major improvement. Ask yourself this question....Is Vince today that much better than he was 5 years ago?
I would say that Vince Carter is the new age Bill Walton, but that would be a disrespect to Bill. He has an MVP, 2 rings, and is in the Hall.
well I would trade him for Glen Robinson and then we would have vince and Allen on the same team, that would just be like All-Star games. how sweet would that be? hehehe
I'm getting tired of the "Vince is the best" line of threads. There have been many of them and they get us nowhere. I think it clear that Vince is loved by Toronto fans and we?re not likely to budge. I think it might be a cultural thing. Canadians in general are rather fond of those that are fond of us. Vince was seen in much the same way that others here are presenting him (full of sound and fury signifying?) in this thread until he re-signed. Once he re-signed he became a Toronto Sports Icon. You do not trash Mr. Wendel Clark, Mr. Doug Gilmore and now Vince Carter within earshot of a fan and expect to get away with it. Are they the best players ever? Maybe not? but they?re ours and in the hearts and minds of Canadians (those in love with Toronto at least) they represent the home team. The reason why these types of threads annoy me is that it is never clear what we are arguing in them. Shape and others have made excellent points as to who Vince could be traded for and why that would be a good thing but what is left out is the fact that people in Toronto love Vince Carter. It visibly angers many posters here when they see Raptor fans staunchly holding their opinion as truth but that?s how we?re built. So many stars have turned their back on the Raptors and many of them have used the teams? geographic location (it being situated in Canada) as the reason why. Canadians have a different way of expressing their patriotism. It may not be as blatantly obvious as our neighbors to the south but make no mistake it is there and it burns red (and white) hot. We do not like that people take potshots at our country (especially when the majority don?t know the first thing that they?re talking about) and we don?t like that many stars have stated that they won?t play here. That is one big reason why we love Vince. He is our very own super-star. He actually seems to love it here and that is a big reason as to why we love him. This argument could go on forever but it would serve no point. I tip my hat to the posters who have been using reason as their tool and have quite admirably proven that as a player Vince is one of many stars and as such could quite easily be traded. What they don?t get is that reason has no purchase when emotion is involved and right now Raptor fans are dealing from an emotional deck. Vince may or may not be the best or even the best we?ve ever had but what is clear is that he?s the best we?ve got and unless Steve Nash comes to play for Toronto Vince is likely to keep his place as Toronto?s most popular NBA super-star. Of course that is just my opinion and I may be wrong.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post"> He is hated because you guys stick Vince Carter down our throats as if he is an NBA god. I used to be a fan yes, but his lack of conditioning and dedication to the team has been in question every season. How many games per season has he averaged? You are not getting back what you have put into him, bottom line, end of story.</div> Dedication to the team. What the ----!!!! VINCE HAS HELD THIS TEAM AT .500.... NOW THAT THE JALEN AND DONYELL ARE HERE THINGS SHOULD GET BETTER... stop telling me this <font color="Red">edit</font> ****. <font color="Red">We promote intelligent conversation here at JustBball, if you have a problem with a poster, PM them in a calm manner. There is no need to get mad like this. -thefranchise3</font>
