<div class="quote_poster">Quoting purehoops:</div><div class="quote_post">I know its probably been expressed... but Im too tired to read every single arguement... Artest, Jermaine, Abdur Rahim and Vince deserve to be over KMart ... thus Kmart wont make it. Edit: Cross yo ova... what the hell is up with your signature? The middle picture isnt Marbury... that is Garnett.</div> Bettter believe it buddy. It's K-Mart over Shareef and Artest. He's a better all around player and much more exciting. Btw, don't mind the "Last edited by InNETSweTrust on 12-12-2003 at 07:51 AM.". I clicked on Edit instead of Reply and I only noticed it when I couldn't see my post.
Abdur Rahim is a good player who is underrated by alot of people.He puts up consistant numbers every game.However he is not the leader,winner or a guy you can depend on what the game is on the line or just in the 4th quarter.He plays only 3 quarters thats his problem.I would be shocked to see him make it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">Bettter believe it buddy. It's K-Mart over Shareef and Artest. He's a better all around player and much more exciting.</div> I'll give you exciting, but not better all around, Ron Artest is the better all around of the 3, hands down, and K-Mart wishes he had the post game of Rahim. I don't have a problem with him being an all-star though, he is an impact player.
Artest certainly deserves to make it.I see both Artest and Martin making the team.Afterall Artest is a SF...and Martin a PF.They will have a back-up power forward in the team.Would be crazy not to.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sandman:</div><div class="quote_post">I'll give you exciting, but not better all around, Ron Artest is the better all around of the 3, hands down, and K-Mart wishes he had the post game of Rahim.</div> In the same way that Rahim wishes he has the defense of K-Mart. Ron Artest? There are some angles where you can see that he's better all-around but when it comes to importance to the team, definitely K-Mart. I already stated my arguments why K-Mart is better all-around and I don't have to repeat it. I agree with Allnet though. K-Mart and Artest can be in the ASG. But Artest playing in it over K-Mart(meaning K-Mart being snubbed), I doubt it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">Abdur Rahim is a good player who is underrated by alot of people.He puts up consistant numbers every game.However he is not the leader,winner or a guy you can depend on what the game is on the line or just in the 4th quarter.He plays only 3 quarters thats his problem.I would be shocked to see him make it.</div> I understand your arguement but since when is Kmart as a leader, or a winner (w/o) Jason Kidd. Replace Reef with Kmart on the Hawks, does the Hawks record improve? The answer would be: HELL NO. So your leader theory that puts Kmart over Rahim. The place you go to next is stats.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting purehoops:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand your arguement but since when is Kmart as a leader, or a winner (w/o) Jason Kidd. Replace Reef with Kmart on the Hawks, does the Hawks record improve? The answer would be: HELL NO. So your leader theory that puts Kmart over Rahim. The place you go to next is stats.</div> K-mart plays with heart,passion which pumps up his team-mates.He is more of a leader than Reef ever has been.If they swap sides I reckon you would see a good difference in records for Atlanta.Hawks have no leader..or a guy who wants to step up.Martin would bring them more in that area. In the last meeting between the two Martin really did dominate Reef downlow and shooting jumpers.His defence makes him the better player.
^ Reef has been given many chance to lead the team. He's a more seasoned veteran. Judging from the way K-Mart is improving each and every year, he'll get there. It's really unfair to base leadership capabilities when Reef has been in the league way longer. Edit: In addition to what Allnet said, K-Mart is the Nets acknowledged emotional leader.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting purehoops:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand your arguement but since when is Kmart as a leader, or a winner (w/o) Jason Kidd. Replace Reef with Kmart on the Hawks, does the Hawks record improve? The answer would be: HELL NO. So your leader theory that puts Kmart over Rahim. The place you go to next is stats.</div> Edit - misread Hey Trust, what is the Pacers record? :mrgreen:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sandman:</div><div class="quote_post">Say what? Kidd on any team helps their record, he did that with the Mavs, Suns, and Nets, taking them from jokes to a team you had to play hard to beat every night. Hey Trust, what is the Pacers record? :mrgreen:</div> Don't get me started on that! Nets started slow, so what? You can't change the fact that they were lording it over the East for the past two years. Thanks greatly to K-Mart.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">Edit: In addition to what Allnet said, K-Mart is the Nets acknowledged emotional leader.</div> Oh so your saying without KMart the Nets would be nowhere. Just because he is their emotional leader. It takes more than emotion to lead a team, you gotta lead by example. Thats how Duncan leads his team. allnet you say the Hawks would have an improved record with KMart. What warrants that? Without Jason Kidd, KMart wasnt very good, and he never had a winning record. Its you opinion, and I respect it, but I on the other hand would think if you switch Rahim and Reefer, the Nets would be better, and the Hawks would be the same if not worse. This isnt whether Kmart and Rahim are good leaders. The all star game isnt the All Leader teams. Its guy whos preform for their team. Oh, do you guys believe Tmac should be in the ASG? If so, why would you knock Rahim for his bad team, and not Tmac?
Of course I know what they have done, but is that really part of the plan? To start out slow? If the playoffs started today, the Nets would be the 7 seed. Play ball!
^ Nets came out strong before the ASG last season..then kinda sputtered after it...just think of it that way...Nets started slow, they'll finish last... Besides, Pacers have Jermaine and Reggie (among others). What did Artest accomplished really when he was in Chicago? Aside from fouling the then-Wizard MJ that put him in the FT line to get his 30,000th point?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting purehoops:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh so your saying without KMart the Nets would be nowhere. Just because he is their emotional leader. It takes more than emotion to lead a team, you gotta lead by example. Thats how Duncan leads his team. allnet you say the Hawks would have an improved record with KMart. What warrants that? Without Jason Kidd, KMart wasnt very good, and he never had a winning record. Its you opinion, and I respect it, but I on the other hand would think if you switch Rahim and Reefer, the Nets would be better, and the Hawks would be the same if not worse. This isnt whether Kmart and Rahim are good leaders. The all star game isnt the All Leader teams. Its guy whos preform for their team. Oh, do you guys believe Tmac should be in the ASG? If so, why would you knock Rahim for his bad team, and not Tmac?</div> Dude, I was just pointing out the importance of K-Mart to the team. I know it's not that important compared to what Kidd's leadership brings. But that's something for a young player like him. I pointed this out because you questioned K-Mart's ability to lead a team. He was the number 1 pick for a lottery team. You can't expect him to turn it around at once. Then Kidd came, that wasn't his fault. I know we still don't know if he can lead the team without Kidd. But he's still a young guy and he still haven't had a chance to prove it. But as I've said, you can judge from his improving stats that he's on his way there. But enough of that argument. K-Mart is still better all-around. He has offense and defense to speak of. T-Mac? He's an established All-Star. That's why he'll be there. We all know what he's capable of doing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">allnet you say the Hawks would have an improved record with KMart. What warrants that? Without Jason Kidd, KMart wasnt very good, and he never had a winning record. Its you opinion, and I respect it, but I on the other hand would think if you switch Rahim and Reefer, the Nets would be better, and the Hawks would be the same if not worse.</div> Wasn't Martin injuried before Kidd got there? he missed his rookie season? I used to think the same about Martin without Kidd he would not do all that good.However the games Nets have played without Kidd he has done very well and averaged a double double.While on the other hand without Martin the Nets are not a very good team. Remember when Martin got injuried early in this season.Nets at the time were destroying the Timerwolves in NJ.and Martin was actually outplaying Garnett.Martin got hurt their record without him was bad.Which is why they have a losing record now.He is a huge factor in their success. If you saw the playoffs you would know how Martin really dominated every series in the east.Big Ben is one of my favourites but Martin embarrassed him in the playoffs series same with Antonie Walker.Hawks as I said havn't got a player who gets his team-mates motivated...gets them to play harder than they do which every team needs.I truely believe Hawks record would be better with Martin.If Hawks offered the trade you can bet the Nets would turn it down. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This isnt whether Kmart and Rahim are good leaders. The all star game isnt the All Leader teams. Its guy whos preform for their team. Oh, do you guys believe Tmac should be in the ASG? If so, why would you knock Rahim for his bad team, and not Tmac?</div> Not just about being leaders,It's about who is the better overall player.Getting the same kind of Scoring and rebounds stats doesn't just make you the better player.Playing good defense has a deciding factor in it as well.Which is where Martin is miles ahead of Reef.T-mac should be in the all-star game yes...I have said before records don't mean a whole alot in events like this.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">Remember when Martin got injuried early in this season.Nets at the time were destroying the Timerwolves in NJ.and Martin was actually outplaying Garnett.Martin got hurt their record without him was bad.Which is why they have a losing record now.He is a huge factor in their success. </div> Why did you bring Garnett in this? Garnett has actually had trouble playing the Nets, and yes I do believe KMart plays a part in this. I am not denying KMart's ability... he is clearly on the rise, and his defensive ability and plays are leaps and bounds ahead of the majority of the NBA. But I honestley see nothing from him right now to say he can lead a team as the best player. Rahim cant exactly do it, and nor can Kmart is my mind. That is why when I evaluate them, I say if they changed places, what would the outcome be. And I already stated that. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">T-mac should be in the all-star game yes...I have said before records don't mean a whole alot in events like this.</div> Then why does record come in to play with Reefer? Double standard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">^ That pretty much covered everything. Nice post Allnet.</div> When ya point at my post... get my username right. purehoops.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why did you bring Garnett in this? Garnett has actually had trouble playing the Nets, and yes I do believe KMart plays a part in this. I am not denying KMart's ability... he is clearly on the rise, and his defensive ability and plays are leaps and bounds ahead of the majority of the NBA. But I honestley see nothing from him right now to say he can lead a team as the best player. Rahim cant exactly do it, and nor can Kmart is my mind. That is why when I evaluate them, I say if they changed places, what would the outcome be. And I already stated that.</div> Because that was the same game where Martin got injuried.Thats the only reason why I mentioned it.I doubt we will ever know if Martin can lead a team on his own offically.As he has Kidd but the games I have seen from him this season he looks a very good player.Even without Kidd...He has actually improved his jumps shot,post game,rebounding and overall leadership of the team.Martin to me will always seem like a very good 2nd option to another superstar.Can he the number 1 guy all the time? hard to say.Not something worth going into detail about. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then why does record come in to play with Reefer? Double standard.</div> It never did.You mentioned about them swapping teams so I mentioned why I thought Martin would help get more wins than Reef.Martin's defense makes him the better player...They are very close in terms of stats but you can't always judge a player on just that.Players like Kobe and Mcgrady had better stats than Tim Duncan last year.Would they be considered better players? no certainly not. Martin SHOULD make the all-star game but then again he might not.It really is up to the coaches as he won't get voted in as a starter.If he keeps up his numbers then there should be no reason why he won't make it.He has impressed me this season.I feel he should make the team and he deserves it but It's not up to me.
Fair points. Just for the record... if Kmart does make the ASG, it wont be the end of the world for me. If he doesnt, then it shouldnt be a big deal either. Either way you can make legitment arguements IMO.
