<div class="quote_poster">Quoting saad:</div><div class="quote_post">it's *voila not "waa laa"...lol...anyways, wow, 6 rings in chicago with the greatest player of all time and one of the greatest all-around players of all time with him and then you wuss out and go to LA with another dynamic duo that is fully developed and then you bring in 2 more hall of famers (payton and malone) and you sit there pretend to coach by handing your players some nonsense bhuddism books and therefore he's a great coach? lets see this chump coach the clippers or coach the bulls now, the bulls have great talent that can win a lot of games, and skiles is proving that he can coach, i wonder how jackson would do in this same situation...one will never know because this wimp will only "coach" great teams with great players and won't make himself look bad by coaching a bad team and hurting his record...heck, put me in the lakers bench as a coach and ill be a genius...and for your final act you'll make me disappear? what are you talking about? too much harry potter for you?</div> When Jackson took over the Bulls, MJ wasn't one of the best players of all time. He didn't achieve that until later on in his career. He didn't wuss out after he quit the Bulls. He wanted to quit. He needed time off. He came back to the Lakers because they had an opening, and he believed they had the pieces. So what? That makes him a wuss? And so what if they brought in Payton and Malone? This is the NBA. Your goal is to win. You do that by bringing in talent. You mean to tell me you would turn down Payton and Malone? No freaking way.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">When Jackson took over the Bulls, MJ wasn't one of the best players of all time. He didn't achieve that until later on in his career. </div> well obviously MJ was still young and developing, he avg. 37 ppg i believe his second yr in the NBA w/doug collins i think...i think its pretty obvious that he didnt achieve the status of being the best his first few seasons, i think everyone agress with that, thats not the point though, phil jackson didnt help him become the player was/is, he did it because he wanted to and he had the drive... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He didn't wuss out after he quit the Bulls. He wanted to quit. He needed time off. He came back to the Lakers because they had an opening, and he believed they had the pieces. So what? That makes him a wuss? </div> lol, he didnt wuss out because he wanted to quit? thats kind of the point...needed time off? i guess it was just a coincidence that he needed a time off as soon as they started to suck(i dont know if jackson and krause hated each other also, but if they did, that would explain all three (mj, pip, and jackson) breaking up)...believed they had the pieces? lakers had the NBAs best dynamic duo in their prime when jackson took over, thats more than just having the pieces...
Jackson took time off bec. he wanted to spend time with his family....and he was burned out. Yeah, thats really wussing out. There are other things that are more important than basketball.....family being one.
And so what if Jackson took over a team with Jordan on it. It still takes good coaching to win. Explain to me how the Lakers couldn't win with Shaq and Kobe before. Because of the feuding. Jackson came into the picture, toned down the feuding, and won. There is still feuding going on, but the Lakers overcame it to win. How come Del Harris couldn't achieve that, but Jackson could?
Dude, do you know anything about Gming? Your goal is to win championships. Krause won 6 of them. To say he is a bad gm, obviously puts question towards your basketball knowledge. Yeah, he did have the best player of all time, and one of the most all around players like you said. But how do you think they got there. I wonder consider Krause one of the best Gms of all time. 6 championships, drafted the best player of all time, build a dynasty, traded crap for one of the most all around players in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Prophecy:</div><div class="quote_post"> And how do you think Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan got to the Bulls? </div> Just for the record, Jerry Krause did not bring Jordan to Chicago. The venerable Rod Thorn, presently with New Jersey, did that. Jordan was the one piece in place before Krause and Reinsdorf's time that was still around for the first ring. But yes, Jerry Krause has proven that he is a very good GM. Not a very personable GM, but good and popular are different things. He traded away perennial assist man Ennis Whatley to get Charles Oakley in the '85 draft. He traded away high scorers Orlando Woolridge and Quintin Dailey for a series of high draft picks, which later materialized into role players like Stacey King and B.J. Armstrong, and two first round picks in '87, the 8th and 10th. He drafted Olden Polynice with the 8th pick and Horace Grant with the 10th pick, then traded Polynice to the Sonics for the rights to Scottie Pippen. He traded away Oakley, who was popular with fans and Krause, but brought in a former all-star at center who helped the team win 3 rings in Bill Cartwright. Used a random pick the Bulls got as a throw in from the Oakley deal to pick up Will Perdue. Picked up role players like Craig Hodges, Dennis Hopson, Bobby Hansen, Darrell Walker, Trent Tucker, etc. Drafted King and Armstrong one year(Armstrong with a low 1st round pick, who later became an all-star) and Scott Williams(and little known European sensation Toni Kukoc) the next. After the Bulls first group started to come apart, he signed guards Ron Harper and Steve Kerr, traded King for Luc Longley, signed role players Bill Wennington and Jud Buechler, and then traded away first string center Perdue for rebounding phenom Dennis Rodman. I'd say his only bad moves in a decade and a half of running a team were 1. not protecting B.J. Armstrong in the expansion draft 2. alientating players and coaches 3. trading Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler And three bad(IMO) moves in all that time? Pretty amazing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">He drafted Hinrich. Thats a positive. He signed Pippen. That was a positive. He traded Rose. Thats a positive. Unfortunetly, Marshall was traded too.....a negative, but sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. The trade brought us veteran frontcourt players, who play defense, hustle, and rebound.....improving our porous defense. Thats a positive. He fired Bill Cartwright. Thats a positive. He hired Scott Skiles. Thats a positive. You are right.........clearly, he is a horrible GM</div> I'm sorry, but I don't see how the trades helped your team, especially when you already start thinking of trading the player you just got in the trade(davis) to a contender. Signing pippen was good, too bad its 6 years too late, I think you forget that krause drove pippen out of chicago, he would have stayed if krause reworked his contract before and didn't let his ego get in the way of destroying what could be the greatest team ever. Now you guys are praising your defence? Too bad noone on the team can shoot now. you guys traded away marshall and rose who can put your points on the board, now you have to rely on kendall gill to score for you? Thats not a good sign. Do you think your team is better because of the trade? Don't let your fan bias make you ignorant of the fact that you traded away three good players who are being used constantly on a good team and getting back players who are good, but not good enough to help your team win half its games. Honestly if you think you are a better team because rose is gone, just think of what you were saying about him last season when he was scoring all your points. Do you think chandler and curry helped you win those games last season? I don't think so, it was Rose who was helping your team, and now this season when he is not used that often you guys turn your back and starting talking smack about him? Thats being ignorant and fair weather. Being a fan you can get blinded by the fact that you think your team is the best blah blah blah, but sometimes ignorance isn't bliss, ignorance becomes more like arrogance towards the fact that you see your opinion and yours alone, and are blinded by an organization that is headed to the lottery for the FOURTH TIME in the last 4 years. Sure live in the past glory of those 6 championships, but I prefer to live in the present and focus on whats happening today.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry, but I don't see how the trades helped your team</div> Because it helped are defense become a ton better. We also got a lot better in defense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now you guys are praising your defence? Too bad noone on the team can shoot now. you guys traded away marshall and rose who can put your points on the board, now you have to rely on kendall gill to score for you? Thats not a good sign</div> Actually, Jalen Rose couldn't score. He may have put up points, but shot 35% while doing it. Jalen Rose is garbage. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you think your team is better because of the trade? Don't let your fan bias make you ignorant of the fact that you traded away three good players who are being used constantly on a good team and getting back players who are good, but not good enough to help your team win half its games.</div> I think we are a lot better. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly if you think you are a better team because rose is gone, just think of what you were saying about him last season when he was scoring all your points.</div> Why should we care about last year? This year he is terrible. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and now this season when he is not used that often you guys turn your back and starting talking smack about him? Thats being ignorant and fair weather. </div> Maybe it's called common sense. But, I guess you like having 35% shooters shooting the ball all the time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Being a fan you can get blinded by the fact that you think your team is the best blah blah blah, but sometimes ignorance isn't bliss, ignorance becomes more like arrogance towards the fact that you see your opinion and yours alone</div> I could say the same about you. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure live in the past glory of those 6 championships, but I prefer to live in the present and focus on whats happening today.</div> Ok, well if you want to talk about right now... Your team is an average team. You will never go anywhere. At least we get to improve are team by the lotery. While you waste and wither away because you got knocked out in the 1st round.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry, but I don't see how the trades helped your team, especially when you already start thinking of trading the player you just got in the trade(davis) to a contender. </div> When was this? Provide a link. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Signing pippen was good, too bad its 6 years too late, </div> Nope, its still great. Pippen's leadership should leave an impact on the Bulls, similar to what Alonzo did for the Nets. That alone makes it worth signing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Now you guys are praising your defence? Too bad noone on the team can shoot now. you guys traded away marshall and rose who can put your points on the board, now you have to rely on kendall gill to score for you? Thats not a good sign. </div> Don't confuse praising our defense with being happy its improved. No, our defense isn't stellar, but it has improved. We can be happy about that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Do you think your team is better because of the trade? Don't let your fan bias make you ignorant of the fact that you traded away three good players who are being used constantly on a good team and getting back players who are good, but not good enough to help your team win half its games. </div> Again, we got rid of Rose. That alone made the trade worthwhile. Yes, from a pure talent prespective, we got the shorter end of the trade. But when you factor in the cap situation, contracts, intangibles, etc. it wasn't that bad of a trade for us. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Honestly if you think you are a better team because rose is gone, just think of what you were saying about him last season when he was scoring all your points. </div> I do not know what Bulls fans were saying here last season, but I assure you many Bulls fans I talked to weren't happy with Rose either. The 'wanting' of the fans to dump Jalen actually started surfacing last year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Do you think chandler and curry helped you win those games last season? I don't think so, it was Rose who was helping your team, and now this season when he is not used that often you guys turn your back and starting talking smack about him? Thats being ignorant and fair weather. </div> Maybe you shouldn't assume too much. I don't know what was being said here last year, but I and hundreds of others at BBB wanted him gone last year because of his lack of defense, lack of leadership, lack of ability to win us games down the stretch, poor decision making, ball hogging, and the list just keeps going on. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Being a fan you can get blinded by the fact that you think your team is the best blah blah blah, but sometimes ignorance isn't bliss, ignorance becomes more like arrogance towards the fact that you see your opinion and yours alone, and are blinded by an organization that is headed to the lottery for the FOURTH TIME in the last 4 years. Sure live in the past glory of those 6 championships, but I prefer to live in the present and focus on whats happening today.</div> I have yet to talk to a Bulls fan this year that is happy with the progress they are making. So we are heading to the lottery again. Yes, it is frusturating, there is no denying that. But if this is the price to pay for winning 6 championships in one decade, Ill gladly pay the price. Wouldn't you?
A couple of other things. Not that I want to drag this into a "Rose sucks" type of thread..... But why do many non Bulls fans seem to think the Bulls cannot replace Rose? Last year, he shot 40.6% from the field. Hardly worth celebrating over. He was shooting 37.5% in the first 16 games of the season. And here's what really gets me.... People keep talking about how much scoring we lost in Rose...and who is going to score? ROSE WAS AVERAGING LESS THAN 14 POINTS A GAME WITH US. Somehow, I think we'll recover. The part of the trade that did hurt us was losing Marshall. Thats what will hurt us. Rose's absence will have little to no bearing.
