Loco is loco. Kids have been emulating this style since Dr. J and Connie Hawkins, long before Jordan. The difference with today is that the league prefers athleticism over skill. I will post what I put in another forum about the evolution of the game and it should explain what I mean a little better.
Evolution of the game This is what I posted in response to someone with a similar complaint about the game: When you talk about this, you can't ignore the fact that the athletes are better than they were when the NBA first started. Of course, the league started with all white players and their style of play. Naturally, when they first let blacks play, the first group of them had to fit into the style of play that was prevalent at the time, as bringing creativity would not have been well received back then. Slowly but surely came the players who start the evolution process and use their athleticism to take the ball to the rim and score. Yeah, once upon a time, a dunk was showing someone up. Does that really surprise anyone? Today, the game is about matchups and who can score by beating their man. Why? Because the players today have the athletic ability to do it. It's more effective basketball strategy to have your 2 or 3 take his man off the dribble than to pass the ball around for an open 18-footer. The percentage of scoring is higher that way particularly when there is a chance to get fouled. Especially today when hitting the 18-footer is no longer automatic. If you are lucky enough to have a big man who can score in the post regularly, then ball movement is a better possibility. But most teams don't have a guy like that anymore. I'm sure there are plenty here who long for those old days, but guess what, if you stock your roster with guys who can automatically hit that 18-footer and who play unselfishly by moving the ball around, your going to stock your roster with guys who will get beat bad on defense. The fact that there are better athletes in today's game has nothing to do with money. For the guy who likes to watch Argentina play, they play the way they do because they don't have the athleticism to play any other way. If they did, they might have more of their guys playing in the NBA besides Manu, who is the exception. They will have trouble playing against superior athletes because those jumpers are going to be challenged. Granted, they beat the U.S. in the worlds two summers ago, but that was more about the U.S. players not taking them seriously. Besides most decent teams can beat a team better than them on a given day. If they had to play an 82 game NBA schedule, they would get worn out from having to defend quicker people and from having to create their own shots. Personally, I like the game the way it is. The low scoring might also mean that someone's also trying to play defense. That's okay too. If you like to watch scoring, go buy some tapes of Doug Moe's Denver teams of the 80's or go watch the Harlem Globetrotters or that And1 street ball nonsense. Whenever you have the best players, the best coaches, in one league, you are going to get quality basketball.
I don't think you can blame Jordan for this sort of thing, although kids are trying to showboat and aren't working so much on fundamentals. This is just another side effect of how lazy people are nowadays. People don't want to do what's hard if they think they won't get any credit for it. They want to do the bare minimum at practice and get over to McDonalds for dinner. Kids don't train as well because they are lazy, and this applies in all sports.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Waneko:</div><div class="quote_post">Loco is loco. Kids have been emulating this style since Dr. J and Connie Hawkins, long before Jordan. The difference with today is that the league prefers athleticism over skill. I will post what I put in another forum about the evolution of the game and it should explain what I mean a little better.</div> First Off I enjoy everyone's opinion! I really do ALL Interesting reads!! BUT.. Michael Jordan was really the first guy promoted EVERYDAY because of Cable TV! When Cable TV was really taking off was the mid 80's .. really everyone by then most of the country had Cable TV! Sooo Jordan got the most exposure! None of this is his fault that a whole generation practice what THE MEDIA was only promoting.. these kids saw what would sell. But.. After Jordan's 3rd year he changed his game completely!!! He slowly dropped the flash and because the best defender, great passer, & amazing shooter! BUT.. Every kid from day one ..whenever they first pick up a basketball to the day they graduate High School... they seem to ONLY practice 1 thing (breaking someone off the dribble and getting to the rim!) There is more to the game of basketball then this!! It is sorta a catch 22! Thats what sells to get you in the league..it makes you money & a huge name ..BUT you have NO clue how to play the game! It usually takes American Players 4 - 5 years in the league..on the job training ..to actually learn the whole game! * But the further we get away from Jordan's Era ..kids see and love players like Tim Duncan & other winning championships.. ALL the kids will follow these trends Of KNOWING the full game! BUT WE had a good 8 years or so LOST because of Jordan's Era.. having every kid practicing THE SAME DAMN Thing.. all for ego,fame & money. Which ALLOWED the rest of the world's players to catch up to US! I am NOT in the least blaming Michael Jordan!! Because he has had many of hours in a quiet gym practing all his weakness in his game! Blood Sweat & Tears! Which he didn't have to do.. he still would have been huge & famous. But a Full generation ignore that he changed his game after his first few years in the league.. MOST kids saw the Flash & Money..the way to get was to practice the same damn thing daily.. because not looking good when your learning something new wasn't what they wanted to do! OR they were just lazy and knew they had enough skill to get in the league?? Who knows why.. but it allowed the rest of the world to catch up! **( wow.. I have a modem dial up..and this takes soooo long to type! man o man! was that slow! IS there a way to fix that?? because I can't see comin on this board allot if it is going to take this long to just type something)** Forget about fixing spelling ,ect.. that would take twice as long
I agree with your ideas Loco, but i dont blame any one person. People realized if they have a 40 inch vertical, they should take full advantage of it. But, we all know that you cant be one dimensional, shooting or driving, if you want to be an all around good player. Although i concentrate on my shooting as much as any other thing (especially because i play F-C and i need to spread the defense) it is important that people drive also, because there is NO easier way to score than a free throw. (Argue if you want, but it is an un-contested shot from 15 feet.. come on) Darius Miles was overhyped, and as i read this thread i thought about him right away, but mostly the hype is gone and people realize he has little skill. The people who can drive and dunk only are in the right place; in the streetball leagues or not playing any kind of professional basketball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting LocoArts:</div><div class="quote_post"> BUT.. Michael Jordan was really the first guy promoted EVERYDAY because of Cable TV! When Cable TV was really taking off was the mid 80's .. really everyone by then most of the country had Cable TV! Sooo Jordan got the most exposure! </div> Before this time kids were watching basketball on free tv. I doubt cable made a big difference in how kids emulated Jordan's earlier style of play. Now, perhaps white kids in the suburbs began paying attention at that time. But kids in the inner cities, where basketball is the only game, have been doing it the same way long before Jordan. You can't teach athleticism. You can teach all of the other skills. I'm certain there are millions of kids in high school that have those skills you guys would love to see on the court. Guess what. They don't make it. Why? Because the Darius Miles' are the ones who make it because they have the athleticism. You can't make it on that alone of course, (see Lee Nailon) but if you can aquire a few of things you need to do to be productive, you have a better chance. The kids with the fundamentals don't make it because they will get beat on defense by guys who are quicker than them. It's just the cold hard reality.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PyroManiac:</div><div class="quote_post">I think his point is that a lot of players don't take the time to have a more-rounded game. Kobe, Allen, Finley, Bibby and Vince are all known for their attitude towards the game. T-Mac is great player but he is selfish, however he wants to be a great player on offense and thats why he has such an excellent offensive game. I'm not going to comment on Sprewell and Rasheed Wallace though. They have talent but throw it away with stupid rants.</div> T-mac is not selfish. He gets his teammates involved. You need to actually WATCH some magic games and not listen to what you hear on TV..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting courtsidetv:</div><div class="quote_post">T-mac is not selfish. He gets his teammates involved. You need to actually WATCH some magic games and not listen to what you hear on TV..</div> No, TMac really is selfish. And don't tell me to watch Magic games, I've seen plenty. I watched every game of the '02 first round series between the Hornets and Magic, and I watched at least a dozen times per game that TMac tried to take it one on 2,3 and even 4 with the Hornets just to get a shot off. I know TMac gets assists. But even guys like Jalen Rose and Ricky Davis, known as being Me-first guys, get more assists than a lot of players in the league. Assists aren't the main indicator of selfishness. The fact that Tracy hasn't allowed any of his teammates to become a #2 scoring option is a testament to his selfishness. And don't say that the Magic don't have anyone good enough - Giricek, Gooden and Howard all are capable of this role. Back to the topic at hand though... Loco, I see where you're coming from, but you are blaming Jordan despite you saying that you're not. You're basically saying that if he hadn't come along than none of this would have happened. But that's false. Clyde Drexler is almost as athletic, was second to Jordan in MVP voting in '92 and lost to Jordan in the Finals that year. If Jordan never played, Drexler would have been made out by the media to be that Jordanesque figure who won titles, won MVP's, scored a lot, and dunked the ball. Dominique scored more than Drexler, and dunked as much or even more. He never had the success Jordan eventually did, but Jordan didn't either when he first got all the attention. It is partially the media's fault that Jordan was focused on, but only partially. They showed fans who they wanted to see, and that was Jordan. But it is not Jordan's fault, since someone else would have come after Dr. J and before Kobe/TMac/Vince.
Jordan is what made the game what it is today. But for those players that have tons of athleticism and miniscule fundamentals, it's because most kids these days don't have the "love" for the game, as much as the love for the "hype" and quick fame. The best example of a recent player who had mad athleticism, but also busted his ass in the fundamentals of the game is my main man KG. On a daily basis, he has 18 boards, 26 points, and 8-9 assists and/or blocks. All the while, he can bring the ball up the court, step behind the line, hit the 20 foot jumper, make free throws, and still throw down crazy dunks. As well as lock his opponent up. Garnett is easily the most versatile player in the league today, and has been, in my opinion. No matter what the wolves do this season, Big Ticket should receive the MVP honors. Even as worthy as some other players may be, none have proven to be more productive, and valuable to their team as KG. It's the desire to excel at the highest level that produces greatness. That desire is what has been lost in younger players, but not all young players.
Ah, so we were able to name plenty of players who are superstars that have well rounded games. People like Jalen Rose and Ricky Davis are in the minority and they are role players. Most role players do one thing well for their team. What's special about them is the thing they do for their team is score. Since they score a lot of points they get more recognition than the role players who do other things that get less notice (playing defense, rebounding etc). And yeah some days they need a lot of shots to do it. Starman, do you put McGrady in the same category as these guys? Unlike these guys, McGrady plays defense, and he rebounds as much as a swingman should. Drew Gooden will be a good 2nd option in a year or two. Giricek and Howard are not 2nd options, not for a team that expects to win anyway. And if I'm Tracy and the game is on the line, I wouldn't pass it to those guys either. In fact, someone like Rose or Ricky Davis would be a BETTER 2nd option than those guys. But I guess Doc Rivers liked well rounded players, LOL. The point is that there is a place for a guys who can score and do little else. It's unfair to say that most players are like that when the real superstars can and do it all. If the way the game is played today is corrupting your youth, then perhaps you all should suggest that they raise the hoop to 11 1/2 feet. Then, you can watch games without dunking, and basketball would definitely require more skill and fundamentals. Sounds good eh?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Waneko:</div><div class="quote_post">Ah, so we were able to name plenty of players who are superstars that have well rounded games. People like Jalen Rose and Ricky Davis are in the minority and they are role players. Most role players do one thing well for their team. What's special about them is the thing they do for their team is score. Since they score a lot of points they get more recognition than the role players who do other things that get less notice (playing defense, rebounding etc). And yeah some days they need a lot of shots to do it. Starman, do you put McGrady in the same category as these guys? Unlike these guys, McGrady plays defense, and he rebounds as much as a swingman should. Drew Gooden will be a good 2nd option in a year or two. Giricek and Howard are not 2nd options, not for a team that expects to win anyway. And if I'm Tracy and the game is on the line, I wouldn't pass it to those guys either. In fact, someone like Rose or Ricky Davis would be a BETTER 2nd option than those guys. But I guess Doc Rivers liked well rounded players, LOL. The point is that there is a place for a guys who can score and do little else. It's unfair to say that most players are like that when the real superstars can and do it all. If the way the game is played today is corrupting your youth, then perhaps you all should suggest that they raise the hoop to 11 1/2 feet. Then, you can watch games without dunking, and basketball would definitely require more skill and fundamentals. Sounds good eh?</div> I hope that last paragraph wasn't directed at me, since if you'd read my post, you'd know I'm not attacking dunking or the way the game is played today. Do I put guys like Rose and Davis in the same category as McGrady? No. They're not role players, they're stars. But McGrady is a superstar, and I won't deny him that just to be obtuse. But my point(which was separate from the Michael Jordan-is-the-scourge-of-basketball debate) was that Tracy is a selfish player. And my examples of Davis and Rose were examples of guys who are selfish but who rack up assists(both led their teams in assists last season). And I'm not saying McGrady isn't well rounded. I believe he is, and wouldn't call him one-dimensional ever. But I maintain that he's selfish because of that second-option thing. I agree that Gooden will be a better second option in a year or two, but I disagree that Howard couldn't be that now. He averaged 17 points per game for a paltry team last year, and should at least average 15 playing next to such a player as TMac. And if the game was on the line, I would pass on occasion, to guys like Lue and Giricek who have decent outside shots, or else defenses will continually collapse on me in crunch time, as they do on TMac. Jordan didn't win by always taking the last shot: that's why guys like Johnny Pax and Steve Kerr will always live in Bulls lore.
I'd pass to Paxson and Kerr long before Lue and Giricek any day. If you pass to those guys and they miss important shots, you are going to be criticized for not wanting to take the big shot. Never said the world was fair.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Waneko:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd pass to Paxson and Kerr long before Lue and Giricek any day. If you pass to those guys and they miss important shots, you are going to be criticized for not wanting to take the big shot. Never said the world was fair.</div> They are also very young and need to get used to taking those types of shots for the better later in their careers.
