This is also posted in the Bulls forum, but since only The Prophecy and I were posting back and forth, I decided to post it in here also(mods, please leave this thread here). Before responding, please read the following post in entirety. One of the biggest trades this year, was the Toronto/Chicago deal that sent Jalen Rose, Lonny Baxter, and Donyell Marshall to Toronto for Chris Jeffries, Jerome Williams, and Antonio Davis. One of the most heard responses to that trade was "Chicago got gipped." But is that really true? Let's take a further glance. Before the trade, Chicago was a dismal 4-12. Since the trade, Chicago has gone 5-8. Thats an improvement, even if both are losing records. Since Chicago was going for defense in the trade, let's see if they improved: Opponents PPG Before the trade: 101.0625 Opponents PPG After the trade: 89.2307 Notice anything? Many of you are probably scoffing, noting that neither record is worth mentioning. But what do you expect when you lose 2 starters from your lineup, both a big part of your team. That has happened to Chicago. Chandler and Curry are both out. If you are Toronto fans, imagine taking Rose and Bosh out of your lineup now. How far would you get? This is a problem Chicago has been dealing with since the trade. Add to that Pippen being out(imagine Mo Pete out), a new coach(imagine Toronto under a new coach, trying to learn a whole new system), and you are seeing some of the problems that are becoming every day experiences for the Bulls. Now, for those Toronto fans that are screaming about how great there team is now. Take a look at this: Record before the trade: 8-8 Record after the trade: 6-6 Change: n/a Toronto hasn't improved since the trade. They still remain at .500 Yes, their offense has improved, their ppg has been upped, etc. But there record still remains the same throughout that. I am not saying Chicago got the better end of the deal, or that Toronto did. The whole point in this thread was to get your attention to the fact that perhaps both sides improved. And perhaps, that on second glance, that Chicago didn't get gipped, but knew what they were doing. There are always two sides to every story. But often times, one side is overlooked. Hopefully this side will not further overlooked.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting franchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">Nice analysis but you've gotta note that Toronto's defense has gone haywire after the trade.</div> I was more concerned about addressing the so called 'faults' from the Chicago's side of the trade that everyone brings up.
chicago will be better off when their 2 youngins get back into the game. has chandler played once in the last month?
Toronto Fans......Where are you? You were declaring about how great a trade it was for you, and how badly we got gipped. Step to the plate, I am interested to hear what you have to say.
I still believe the trade is tilted a bit towards Toronto's favor, if Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall step up. However, the odds of that are growing less likely every game. When the trade was first announced, I thought it was a horrible deal for the Bulls, but it has turned out to be a good deal for them too, because the players they traded still are not producing like they should. However, I don't think that all their recent wins should be called a result of the trade, but more of Jamal Crawford finding his shot. We cannot judge the trade until Chandler and Curry come back though, because Toronto is mostly at full strength. Raptors received more potential, but Bulls received consistency, and right now consistency is beating out potential.
This artcle obviously proves those Raptor fans wrong. Jamal Crawford is now finding his shot, and we would no longer need Rose and his 35% shooting. But the amazing stat is our defense. What a change. Huge. We now have a good defense, and with Jamal hot our offense becomes so much better. I STILL love this trade.
I thought this was an even trade when it happened for both sides, and I'll stick by that. I can't fault Toronto for this trade - they needed offense bad, and they needed to rid themselves of Davis' and JYD's contracts. I'm gonna wait til the end of the season to analyse this, Donyell's been a beast too. As for Chicago - it has been a great trade for them so far, and if JC continues his rise, then who knows what may happen by the end of the season.
To be honest I don't believe the Bulls got what they deserved. They got two great players in my opinion. Meaning Davis and Williams, they're people worth it, they try very hard. It was good to let Rose go, he takes shots he shouldn't. The Bulls leave that to Curry and Crawford. I can't really say much, sorry I don't know the other players well enough. I'm just hoping that they both got good deals and are doing well because of the trade. It doesn't seem fair for the Bulls though, I wish they got some better players. And you're right, we at Toronto need Bosh, we're not afraid to say so, and we're "Great", because of Bosh and Jalen. We have a right to say so. So do you. Both are worthy of admiration. We both try hard so no bias and criticism. Pros, cons? Forget them. Great players, great teamwork, great friends. Those're what make both these teams. We're nothing like Portland with such bums like Wallace and the no longer there Wells. No Chris Childs like players. Pippen is probably the only controversial player. We both benefited. Everyone needs everyone plain and simple. It's why it's a team...
Toronto won today so they are above .500 after the trade now. Toronto would be much better if they would sign a cheap big man like Jason Collier.
From Toronto's POV, I don't think you can judge this trade accurately until we are 60 or so games into the season. That will be the time that Carter starts to get tired, and that will be the time that the significance of adding two proven scorers will show up IMO.
Ugh, this is getting boring. Can you Bulls fans give it up? The Reason Toronto fans aren't talking is because we are over this trade, we have nothing more to prove. We have to live with the players we have now and so does Chicago. There is no need to beat a dead horse because noone will truly know how good this trade is until the end of the season. Its not based on a day to day basis but more on a season long basis. As long as Toronto is seeded in the playoffs I am satisfied, that will be a great improvement from last year already and if Chicago makes it then that will be great as well Take our players and call us back after the allstar break...then you can make perceptions on how good this trade is.
Okay, just think, at the start of the season, Toronto had 1 legitimate scoring option (Carter), and they had the WORST offense in the league, by far. Now their improving and they have 3 not only legitimate scoring options, but threats. And they've just taken 2 in a row, on the road, in the west! Wow
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sirvincentlamar:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, just think, at the start of the season, Toronto had 1 legitimate scoring option (Carter), and they had the WORST offense in the league, by far. Now their improving and they have 3 not only legitimate scoring options, but threats. And they've just taken 2 in a row, on the road, in the west! Wow</div> They may have had the worst offense in the league, and now are decent. But, now there defense is bad.
