<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Black Widow:</div><div class="quote_post">I personally think Pippen belongs over Clyde. Offensively,Clyde has the slight edge but defensively there is no contest whatsoever. I mean come on,Scottie used to defensively give Jordan all he could handle..IMO Scottie is a better all-around player than Clyde.</div> where did that happened? in the bulls practice drills?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">no problem. just a few stats: Scottie Pippen: 16 seasons, 18,804 points, 6085 assists, 7426 rebounds (per game averages of 16.2 points, 5.2 assists, 6.4 rebounds), 7-time All Star (one MVP) 20 triple doubles, etc Clyde Drexler: 15 seasons (one less) 22,195 points, 6125 assists, 6677 rebounds (per game averages of 20.4 points, 5.6 assists, 6.1 rebounds) 9-time All Star, 24 triple doubles, including one that was one assist shy of a quadruple double, etc Stats wise, Pippen is only better in rebounds and marginally. But Clyde was better all around. Now, stats only tell part of the story. There's a huge subjective component in comparing player vs. player, and in my opinion, having seen them both in their prime, Clyde was just a much better player, more rounded and way more exciting to watch. But hey, it's just my opinion.</div> Clyde was NOT a better all around player. They aren't so far apart in offensive stats..but the thing that sets Pippen apart is this he was a member of the NBA All-Defensive Team from 1991-2000 (First Team member seven times)...that makes him the better ALL AROUND player by far..
i dont think that shaq should be ranked better than Dr.J and i also dont think that kg should be ranked worse than c webb
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">where did that happened? in the bulls practice drills?</div> Yea.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">LMAO Shaq's first 3 years in the league he had every center in his prime. Ewing Olajuwon Robinson Mutombo Daugherty Smits Shaq killed them on many occasions, even in All-Star games where he had to face them all. Those Magic-Knicks battles were awesome and emotion filled. Though Shaq's Magic were swept in the Finals by Olajuwon's Rockets, his numbers were great. Shaq is a top player of all time, like it or not.</div> In their prime? Shaq was born in 1972, came into the league in 92, when he was 20 years old. In his third season, 94-95, here's how old those other centers were (I'm just using the three best ones): Ewing: 33 yrs old (born 62) NBA in 85 Olajuwon: 32 yrs old (born 63) NBA in 84 Robinson: 30 yrs old (born 65) NBA in 87 Center is the toughest position to play, the one where the player endures the most banging and a lot of wear and tear, especially the way those three guys played. Their primes where in the late eighties, early nighties. All three had extensive problems with injuries in their last three or four seasons - just as Shaq is experiencing now. Now, I never said that Shaq wasn't a top player of all time, I just said that if he had been born earlier he would have faced much tougher competition. Name three centers that are contemporary with Shaq and are even close to Ewing, Robinson or Olajuwon. I could also say that he's a big baby, whines too much, he has a mouth that dwarfs those huge planks he calls feet (good thing because he's always putting them in, sleeping with Venus Williams and all), fouls all the time and is never called on it, has limited game (nowhere close to Hakeem), can't hit a free throw to save his life, can't defend away from the basket, etc, etc. David Aldridge, I believe, said it best "Shaq your game is U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi".
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Black Widow:</div><div class="quote_post">Clyde was NOT a better all around player. They aren't so far apart in offensive stats..but the thing that sets Pippen apart is this he was a member of the NBA All-Defensive Team from 1991-2000 (First Team member seven times)...that makes him the better ALL AROUND player by far..</div> oh, ok, 4000 points and 4.2 ppg career is not so far apart? Give those 4.2 ppg to Karl Malone and he's all time ppg leader ahead of MJ and Chamberlain (he's number 10 now. 10!!). Give those 4000 points to Tom Chambers and he has more than Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, Robert Parish and Shaq. You really think that weighs less than being selected to the All-Defensive team?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">oh, ok, 4000 points and 4.2 ppg career is not so far apart? Give those 4.2 ppg to Karl Malone and he's all time ppg leader ahead of MJ and Chamberlain (he's number 10 now. 10!!). Give those 4000 points to Tom Chambers and he has more than Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, Robert Parish and Shaq. You really think that weighs less than being selected to the All-Defensive team?</div> Scottie was a very good offensive player in his prime years. He had good range and could take it to the hole with the best of 'em. He was just as good a rebounder plus he also ran the Bulls offense a majority of the time AND he was an All-World defender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">LMAO</div> laugh it up but the fact is Mike used to go just as hard,if not harder,in practice than in a game. Mike was a tenacious practice player and he was more often than not matched up with Pip. Mike has said on more than one occasion that Pip and he went at each other hard all the time and Pip held his own. Like it or not Pip deserves to be higher than Clyde. Oh yeah,and the last time I looked...Pip has 5 more rings.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Black Widow:</div><div class="quote_post">Scottie was a very good offensive player in his prime years. He had good range and could take it to the hole with the best of 'em. He was just as good a rebounder plus he also ran the Bulls offense a majority of the time AND he was an All-World defender.</div> i agree with all that and still doesn't justifies saying that his offensive stats are not far apart from clyde.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">i agree with all that and still doesn't justifies saying that his offensive stats are not far apart from clyde.</div> look at the end result..it's not that far apart as to where Clydes slight offensive edge takes away from Scottie's all around better game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">no way pippen is on top of clyde drexler. </div> That is just a bulls fan being biased. Then again I'm a Blazer fan, so go figure.... But honestly, the only reason that Drexler is not ranked higher than he already is, is due to the fact that he played in an era where Jordan was God. Drexler was forever overshadowed, while Pippen received more attention that he deserved because he was playing with #23 (no, not Lebron ). However Pip was at a disadvantage as well, because he was always playing second fiddle to MJ. Year from now we may be arguing that Kobe belongs above Tmac on these lists, but won't be there because he was always Shaq's Robin. There are good arguments for both sides. However, Pippen never had the opportunity to lead a team (while still in his prime). Drexler did, and he was truly a better player. Pippen could have been much better than he was, but will forever be the league's best and most ideal role player. Drexler > Pippen
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Black Widow:</div><div class="quote_post">laugh it up but the fact is Mike used to go just as hard,if not harder,in practice than in a game. Mike was a tenacious practice player and he was more often than not matched up with Pip. Mike has said on more than one occasion that Pip and he went at each other hard all the time and Pip held his own. Like it or not Pip deserves to be higher than Clyde. Oh yeah,and the last time I looked...Pip has 5 more rings. </div> ah yes, the rings. that's why steve kerr is such a special player
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">i agree with all that and still doesn't justifies saying that his offensive stats are not far apart from clyde.</div> Something Black Widow didn't mention and that you're forgetting: Clyde played 8 seasons where he was the number 1 scoring option on his team out of those 15 total. Pippen had 2. That's the reason for the big point discrepancy. Make Karl or Tom Chambers the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option for just as long and they wouldn't be half the players that they were. I'm a huge Clyde Drexler fan, and until '93 I'd still put him over Scottie, but Scottie has proven himself to be far and above better in defense and winning(not just the 6 w/ Mike - he made it to the 2nd rd and beyond 2 out of the six seasons w/o mike as well), and wasn't that far behind Clyde in offense, as Black Widow has pointed out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">ah yes, the rings. that's why steve kerr is such a special player</div> Indeed, rings make the player . That's why I love Luke Longely, and Robert Horry. Future HOFers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">ah yes, the rings. that's why steve kerr is such a special player</div> Scottie was a HUGE reason those Championships were won. Add those rings with everything else and it elevates Pip above Glide.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trail_Blazer76:</div><div class="quote_post">Indeed, rings make the player . That's why I love Luke Longely, and Robert Horry. Future HOFers.</div> When you discussin' Pip..his championships with Chi-town indeed go into the equation of his overall greatness.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Black Widow:</div><div class="quote_post">Scottie was a HUGE reason those Championships were won. Add those rings with everything else and it elevates Pip above Glide.</div> Nice tactic, use the term "everything else" and then don't define it . Care to elaborate?
Obviously I know that Pippen wasn't number 1 scoring option on the Bulls and that's my point - he wasn't good enough to be. I could make the argument that many of his scoring options came from not having the best defender on the other team guarding him, but that's a completely speculative argument. History is what it is, we can't compare two players saying "well, so and so would have had better stats if he wasn't in the shadow of so-and-so". If Pippen wanted to lead a team he could haave gotten a trade, sign with other team, etc... the reality is he was happy playing second fiddle (and practice punching bag) to MJ. It's one of the reasons why I respect Kobe when he says he wants to go on his own.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trail_Blazer76:</div><div class="quote_post">Nice tactic, use the term "everything else" and then don't define it . Care to elaborate?</div> Read the rest of the discussion above.
