I'm very much surprised that no one's contesting MJ at number 1...where are the Stilt's fans? Oh and for the record, I'm an MJ fan. He definitely is the GOAT
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm very much surprised that no one's contesting MJ at number 1...where are the Stilt's fans?</div> Wilt had much more talent on his teams than MJ had, and 6 rings compared to 2 does not cut it. Today's ere is much more physical and aggressive defensively. Plus the players are a lot more bigger, faster, and athletic. MJ dominated an era that was supposed to be dominated by centers (Robinson, Dream, Shaq, Ewing, Mutombo)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ If that is your debate, then to you must believe Oscar Robertson must be the greatest player who ever lived. Because no one had better all around numbers than him for a season/career. Just going by your debate.</div> Well no,that wasn't my debate to begin with..someone brought the numbers into the fold. My whole point is Clyde's best season was supposedly better than Pip's..yet,as some think,Pip is the lesser player compared to Clyde..but if this truly was the case Pip,who like I said played on an inferior team than Glide's,shouldn't have led his team of role player's much farther than Clyde. And no,I don't think Oscar is the best..he may have had better number's but he was anything other than a teamplayer and his team's performance's showed that..a great pro player..yes..great pro winner...no.
Finally, Dominique Wilkins listed, I sure hope he goes on the NBA's top 100 of all time. I think the Bird and Magic one is a toughie, whom do you think is better? Otherwise I thought it was pretty much right.
It depends on how you want your team. You want a number one scoring option first, you take Clyde (though his defensive numbers were very overlooked) You want a solid defensive team and a stopper, you take Pipp, but you better get someone else who can score. You can't go wrong with either guy, they are both studs that are HOF worthy IMO, senseless to compare them. Both original Dream Team members that was dubbed as the greatest team in basketball history.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">It depends on how you want your team. You want a number one scoring option first, you take Clyde (though his defensive numbers were very overlooked) You want a solid defensive team and a stopper, you take Pipp, but you better get someone else who can score. You can't go wrong with either guy, they are both studs that are HOF worthy IMO, senseless to compare them. Both original Dream Team members that was dubbed as the greatest team in basketball history.</div> That's a very sketchy statement. Pip was a very capable scorer who picked up the slack many nights when MJ's shot wasn't falling like normal..Pip had alot of 25ppg+..Pip scored when he needed to..and everyone whoever follwed the Bulls and paid attention knows Pippen could light anyone up from all over the floor To say he couldn't score and was only a defensive stopper is a disservice to Pip because he was alot more than that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Scottie Pippen: 16 seasons, 18,804 points, 6085 assists, 7426 rebounds (per game averages of 16.2 points, 5.2 assists, 6.4 rebounds), 7-time All Star (one MVP) 20 triple doubles, etc Clyde Drexler: 15 seasons (one less) 22,195 points, 6125 assists, 6677 rebounds (per game averages of 20.4 points, 5.6 assists, 6.1 rebounds) 9-time All Star, 24 triple doubles, including one that was one assist shy of a quadruple double, etc Stats wise, Pippen is only better in rebounds and marginally. But Clyde was better all around. Now, stats only tell part of the story. There's a huge subjective component in comparing player vs. player, and in my opinion, having seen them both in their prime, Clyde was just a much better player, more rounded and way more exciting to watch. But hey, it's just my opinion.</div> Stats are not everything. Clyde was better all-around? He was a better scorer and that is all. You failed to mention about Pippen's defense, which was one of the best of ALL TIME. Pippen was a better rebounder, shot a better Fg %, shot a better 3 points %, was a better defender, and more blocks per game. Define "all-around player". Because Clyde was only a better scorer. And with someone like Michael Jordan on your team, it's not supprising. Oh and also... 5 more rings is HUGE. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">However, Pippen never had the opportunity to lead a team (while still in his prime). Drexler did, and he was truly a better player. Pippen could have been much better than he was, but will forever be the league's best and most ideal role player. </div> Well, thanks for bringing up my point. Pippen was never really a number 1 option in his prime. Clyde was, and that is why he scores more. Calling Pippen a role player is not an insult. Pippen could handle not being the number 1 option, and playing amazing defense instead of worrying about scoring. I don't think the Clyde could have done that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Something Black Widow didn't mention and that you're forgetting: Clyde played 8 seasons where he was the number 1 scoring option on his team out of those 15 total. Pippen had 2. That's the reason for the big point discrepancy. Make Karl or Tom Chambers the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option for just as long and they wouldn't be half the players that they were. I'm a huge Clyde Drexler fan, and until '93 I'd still put him over Scottie, but Scottie has proven himself to be far and above better in defense and winning(not just the 6 w/ Mike - he made it to the 2nd rd and beyond 2 out of the six seasons w/o mike as well), and wasn't that far behind Clyde in offense, as Black Widow has pointed out.</div> I agree with everything you said. You are right. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously I know that Pippen wasn't number 1 scoring option on the Bulls and that's my point - he wasn't good enough to be. I could make the argument that many of his scoring options came from not having the best defender on the other team guarding him, but that's a completely speculative argument. History is what it is, we can't compare two players saying "well, so and so would have had better stats if he wasn't in the shadow of so-and-so". QUOTE] Pippen isn't good anymore because he was a 2nd scoring option behind the greatest player of all time. In my mind that what makes it even more great. He put up those numbers while being behind the greatest basketball player ever. Amazing.
Pipp also had a lot of off nights where that shot was as flat as a table, he was not a shooter. There is no way I would accept him being my number one scoring option for a franchise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">Pipp also had a lot of off nights where that shot was as flat as a table, he was not a shooter. There is no way I would accept him being my number one scoring option for a franchise.</div> Pippen shot a better Fg% and 3 Points % for career.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Prophecy:</div><div class="quote_post">Pippen shot a better Fg% and 3 Points % for career.</div> Thank MJ for a lot of that, but look at 93/94 when Pipp was in his prime and without MJ. Both of these guys were no 3 point threats.
I still think that if you look at the big picture Pippen > Clyde. <-------- See avatar for more info :mrgreen:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lostmyluggage:</div><div class="quote_post">I still think that if you look at the big picture Pippen > Clyde. <-------- See avatar for more info :mrgreen:</div> Yes, it's very blurry :mrgreen: Why the hell is the Bulls forum not as active as this thread, lol. Is this what it takes for you guys to come out of the closet. Maybe I'll start a thread in there talking about Pipp, maybe that will draw some interest :mrgreen:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, it's very blurry :mrgreen: Why the hell is the Bulls forum not as active as this thread, lol. </div> I ask myself the same question every day.
I just have to say I enjoy this kind of debate..on other forums I've been on cats would insult you after a couple of posts and turn into a fight....props to all you cats. :mrgreen: :thumbsup:
Chamberlain is the best scorer and the best rebounder ever. Jordan is second in scoring. So 1. Wilt Chamberlain 2. Michael Jordan 3. Oscar Robertson
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, it's very blurry :mrgreen: Why the hell is the Bulls forum not as active as this thread, lol. Is this what it takes for you guys to come out of the closet. Maybe I'll start a thread in there talking about Pipp, maybe that will draw some interest :mrgreen:</div> There is a Bull's forum?? LOL :mrgreen:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Black Widow:</div><div class="quote_post">There is a Bull's forum?? LOL :mrgreen:</div> OUCH
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BeLikeMike:</div><div class="quote_post">Chamberlain is the best scorer and the best rebounder ever. Jordan is second in scoring. So 1. Wilt Chamberlain 2. Michael Jordan 3. Oscar Robertson</div> That's a pretty weak argument IMO. For being his generation's most dominate player he didn't have much to show for it as far as title's go DESPITE playing on some NBA History's most talented teams.
