<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">how many raptors games get broadcasted where you live? if you've seen more then 2 id be surprised. ergo, you should not talk about how vince looks when all you see is highlites and such. iv seen every raptors game this season, i think im in a better position to tell you how it is about vince then you are to me</div> Well,if you must know..I have league pass and I have seen Vince numerous times. Vince isn't having great year. He doesn't drive the lane with authority anymore,to me he just looks like any number of players in the league. In no way has he distinguished himself as special this year. Like I said average best. You think everyone is hatin' on Vince..and thats not the case at all. I really do hope Vince gains his previous form but he ain't there right now and any fan who has seen his past incarnation can tell you that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Prophecy:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I definatley think that Redd should be over Vince. Vince isn't really that great of a player anymore. People need to stop living in the past. </div> ok, so can you back that up with anything? or is it just an unsubstantiated claim? why should redd be there over vince? stats wise they are almost identical. vince's team is doing better then redd's, so why should redd be there ahead of vince? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Well,if you must know..I have league pass and I have seen Vince numerous times. Vince isn't having great year. He doesn't drive the lane with authority anymore,to me he just looks like any number of players in the league. In no way has he distinguished himself as special this year. Like I said average best. You think everyone is hatin' on Vince..and thats not the case at all. I really do hope Vince gains his previous form but he ain't there right now and any fan who has seen his past incarnation can tell you that.</div> 9th in the league in scoring isnt special in your mind? not even a little? wow, your pretty hard to impress. id say 9th in the league in scoring is above average...so would most people. people are hating on vince...if you think top ten in scoring is simply average
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">9th in the league in scoring isnt special in your mind? not even a little? wow, your pretty hard to impress. id say 9th in the league in scoring is above average...so would most people. people are hating on vince...if you think top ten in scoring is simply average</div> so in your mind Vince hasn't lost a thing? He's still the same? Can still do everything he did before? take over games at any time? If you answer yes then you are indeed a biased fan. Those things I mentioned above are the things that made Vince special and seperated him from the crowd. He used to be fearless when driving the lane..he used to be able to take over a game seemingly at will and dominate...he does neither now...he's an average player now. And I'll go one further..if it weren't for the trade the Raps would be alot worse because Vince isn't anything like before and doesn't have anywhere near the impact he had.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">i love how fans of other teams worship their players, and cut up raptor fans for defending thier team and players. some how i see vince as a god, which is news to me actually. can you point out once where i have made him out to be a god? but good work in generalizing thousands of people who you dont even know. michael redd and vince have almost identical stat lines...vince is avg'ing one rebound less, and 2 assists more, and the same in scoring. but somehow vince's stats are "average" and redd deservs an all star appearance. i would say being in the top ten in scoring deservs an all-star appearance, whoever it may be. not to mention redd plays sg and vince plays sf...but of course, there is no way they both deserve to go, JUST michael redd.</div> You are taking this personal,.Vince Carter is suppose to be some superstar that teams don't want to face.Averaging 20 a game along with 4 rebounds and 4 assists is average for a guy like this.He should be right up there near the top of the scoring averages.He has struggled with his jump shot all season,refuses to attack the basket consistantly.Michael Redd is a young player who wasn't expected to put up big numbers as he has done.Carter is said to be a superstar,which he hasn't been this season.Can still excite the crowd but in terms of breath taking plays,40 point games,game winners It has not been there this season. You also need to check the standings when you say Vince's team is doing better than Redd's,That is in-correct Ask anyone who aren't Raptors fans on this board they will tell you Vince Carter has too many groupies,some even would rather Vince play great basketball rather than have team success. I'm sure a few people here would back me up on that one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">ok, so can you back that up with anything? or is it just an unsubstantiated claim? why should redd be there over vince? stats wise they are almost identical. vince's team is doing better then redd's, so why should redd be there ahead of vince? 9th in the league in scoring isnt special in your mind? not even a little? wow, your pretty hard to impress. id say 9th in the league in scoring is above average...so would most people. people are hating on vince...if you think top ten in scoring is simply average</div> Sure, Ill give you ONE stat. .415% from the field. Redd= .444% from the field. Both average basicly the same ppg. Also, Michael Redd has lead his team to a better record than Vince. Satisfied?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">so in your mind Vince hasn't lost a thing? He's still the same? Can still do everything he did before? take over games at any time? If you answer yes then you are indeed a biased fan. Those things I mentioned above are the things that made Vince special and seperated him from the crowd. He used to be fearless when driving the lane..he used to be able to take over a game seemingly at will and dominate...he does neither now...he's an average player now. And I'll go one further..if it weren't for the trade the Raps would be alot worse because Vince isn't anything like before and doesn't have anywhere near the impact he had.</div> i never said i think he hasnt lost a thing, but he still can take over a game, hes done so more then a couple times this season...once against atlanta, once against the heat, and just recently against cleveland...im sure there was another time or two that i cant think of at the moment, but hes still an impact player, iv seen it myself this year. your right about one thing though, hes not taking it to the rack the way he used to, he started like that, but lately hes been falling in love with jumpers again, and not shooting well. hes going through a bad streak after a strong start, im expecting it to turn around, your prolly expecting him to get injured or somethin lol. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">You are taking this personal,.Vince Carter is suppose to be some superstar that teams don't want to face.Averaging 20 a game along with 4 rebounds and 4 assists is average for a guy like this.He should be right up there near the top of the scoring averages.He has struggled with his jump shot all season,refuses to attack the basket consistantly.Michael Redd is a young player who wasn't expected to put up big numbers as he has done.Carter is said to be a superstar,which he hasn't been this season.Can still excite the crowd but in terms of breath taking plays,40 point games,game winners It has not been there this season. You also need to check the standings when you say Vince's team is doing better than Redd's,That is in-correct Ask anyone who aren't Raptors fans on this board they will tell you Vince Carter has too many groupies,some even would rather Vince play great basketball rather than have team success. I'm sure a few people here would back me up on that one.</div> im not taking it personal, its just annoying when "raptors fans" get generalized...especialy for doing something simple like sticking up for your franchise player. every home town team fan is going to do so, but somehow raptor fans think vince is a god. i think hes a good player, i like his game...i love my home team, i dont think im different from any other ball fan. your right though, i did need to check the standings, my bad on that one maybe vince does have too many groupies...is it possible that he has a fan base of queued up ball heads too? i want both, team success and great play from vince. i think great play from vince equals team success. i dont know anyone that wants the raptors to lose, as long as vince plays well...again your making generalizations on unsubstantiated ground.
I am a complete Raptors fan and i couldnt agree more... 3 years ago, this guy had the world in his palms...he gets injured for the first time (Nov.'00)...no problem, it happens....comes back, his team goes to game 7 of the playoffs, lead by him....but loses (May '01)....next year....nearing all-star break...('02) Vince suffers yet another injury but his team is 4th in the East at this point...then they lose 13 (or was it 17?) in a row....with Vince playing in some games...then Vince goes out completely, yet Raptors manage to win 5 in a row and squeeze into the playoffs (April '02)...Comes back the next year, supposedly having been 'reincarnated' and manages to injure himself again while being voted as a starter for the all-star game (which i had no problem with)....finishes the season out on a good note (sort of)...(summer '03 plays excellent in the Olympic qualifiers, doing spectacular dunks.....Opening game of '03/04....39 points with constant drives to the basket.... The first 5 games were probably the most consistent of this year...the rest, hes been playing average...he'd rather pass then shoot or drive....you're not a point guard Vince...if you are holding a 90-******-million dollar ocntract, then please put up 90-******-milllion dollar numbers....scoring 15 one game and then 24 the next wont cut it...Vince was easily a 25, 4, 5 player before...he is NOWHERE near that mark this year...infact, I ifnd his rookie season even better then this....Vince made promises that he was gonna make "everyone sorry for bashing him" when infact, hes done nothing...hes given them more reason to bash him...and he is playing AVERAGE basketball....maybe its cause Rose jacks up shots at every chance....maybe cause he shares the load with Marshall and Rose....but either way, vince isnt cutting it...not playing at a consistent level like a TRUE superstar that he was before, where he used to bring it every single game.... and for the record, i have seen almost every Raptors game this season... VC has too many disappearing acts (I.E- Scoring 11 in the first half against Nuggs, then finishing the game out with 15) He has rarely shown the dominance he had shown in previous years...the only game that comes to mind of a sign of dominance was the one against Atlanta....he needs to step up his game for EVERY game... I will say though...he has improved defensivley though people havent noticed...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Prophecy:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure, Ill give you ONE stat. .415% from the field. Redd= .444% from the field. Both average basicly the same ppg. Also, Michael Redd has lead his team to a better record than Vince. Satisfied?</div> no, not satisfied, milwaukee is doing better now, i was wrong about that since i haddnt checked their record in a while, but i still think their stats are too close to warrant one going to the ASG over the other. if one deservs it, i think the other does. field goal perncentage? well vince is avg'ing a block a game i know...big whoop...like i said, their stats are VERY close.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">im not taking it personal, its just annoying when "raptors fans" get generalized...especialy for doing something simple like sticking up for your franchise player. every home town team fan is going to do so, but somehow raptor fans think vince is a god. i think hes a good player, i like his game...i love my home team, i dont think im different from any other ball fan. your right though, i did need to check the standings, my bad on that one maybe vince does have too many groupies...is it possible that he has a fan base of queued up ball heads too? i want both, team success and great play from vince. i think great play from vince equals team success. i dont know anyone that wants the raptors to lose, as long as vince plays well...again your making generalizations on unsubstantiated ground.</div> If you are that upset about the opinion of "raptors fans" Should I edit my message so it says some Most of the time Raptors fans go crazy for this guy,more than they should.They think he is prefect,can do no wrong,no matter how he plays.I admire the fans who are hard on him when he deserves it.It's the fans who threat him the same no matter what he does.Even when he has moaned to the media there will always be people that defend him too much. I used to be a big Vince Carter fan a few years ago, like many who share the same opinion as me did.He made basketball worth while watching.He seems to have lost some passion for the game,wether it was purely down to injuries I'm not sure. I'm stating my thoughts on what I have seen on different boards about him from his own fans.Many messages I have seen have been too much of "we lost but Vince played good,VC IS BACK" "Doesn't matter that we lost,Vince is getting back to his best" Those are some of the posts I have seen over the course of the season.I don't make up my posts for fun.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">no, not satisfied, milwaukee is doing better now, i was wrong about that since i haddnt checked their record in a while, but i still think their stats are too close to warrant one going to the ASG over the other. if one deservs it, i think the other does. field goal perncentage? well vince is avg'ing a block a game i know...big whoop...like i said, their stats are VERY close.</div> Not too close,c'mon..Redd is averaging almost the same PPG by shooting less and his team is better. And if you look at the numbers compared to years of past Vince is taking just as many shots and making them less plus Vince is on pace to have almost twice as many turnovers as he's had before. All this says Vince is nowhere near the same player. Not hatin'...just the facts man.
Redd > Vince, easily. Vince was in that same class of a Kobe and a T-Mac a few years ago, and well, he either could not keep up with those guys, or he just dropped off. To be Vince should be a 26-28 point, 6-8 rebound, 5 assist, 1.5 block type of guy. He does not seem to be trying as hard as he did before.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post">If you are that upset about the opinion of "raptors fans" Should I edit my message so it says some Most of the time Raptors fans go crazy for this guy,more than they should.They think he is prefect,can do no wrong,no matter how he plays.I admire the fans who are hard on him when he deserves it.It's the fans who threat him the same no matter what he does.Even when he has moaned to the media there will always be people that defend him too much.</div> lmao! there you go again! generalizing raptor fans. let me ask you this...what position are you in to be able to make these generalizations? do you live in toronto? do you go to raptors games and talk to loads of people? or do you just read whats posted on a couple msg boards by mostly teenaged kids? "they think he is perfect, they thing he can do no wrong" who are these people who think that? raptor fans? i dont know any raptor fans like that, and i live just outside of toronto...but somehow you know that ALL raptor fans are this way. i dont think you should change it to some i think you should change it to the few people who iv seen...seem to think... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Not too close,c'mon..Redd is averaging almost the same PPG by shooting less and his team is better. And if you look at the numbers compared to years of past Vince is taking just as many shots and making them less plus Vince is on pace to have almost twice as many turnovers as he's had before. All this says Vince is nowhere near the same player. Not hatin'...just the facts man.</div> vince was shooting almost the same, but his slump of late has dropped his FG% by quite a bit. hes having a rough go right now...your right about the turnovers, i still think hes better then an avg player, i guess im just being a homer...but thats my opinion, and i think i got enough substance to back it up. 9th in the leauge is above average...thats how i feel, you dont...i guess thats where we differ
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Not too close,c'mon..Redd is averaging almost the same PPG by shooting less and his team is better. And if you look at the numbers compared to years of past Vince is taking just as many shots and making them less plus Vince is on pace to have almost twice as many turnovers as he's had before. All this says Vince is nowhere near the same player. Not hatin'...just the facts man.</div> vince was shooting almost the same, but his slump of late has dropped his FG% by quite a bit. hes having a rough go right now...your right about the turnovers, i still think hes better then an avg player, i guess im just being a homer...but thats my opinion, and i think i got enough substance to back it up. 9th in the leauge is above average...thats how i feel, you dont...i guess thats where we differ
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">lmao! there you go again! generalizing raptor fans. let me ask you this...what position are you in to be able to make these generalizations? do you live in toronto? do you go to raptors games and talk to loads of people? or do you just read whats posted on a couple msg boards by mostly teenaged kids? "they think he is perfect, they thing he can do no wrong" who are these people who think that? raptor fans? i dont know any raptor fans like that, and i live just outside of toronto...but somehow you know that ALL raptor fans are this way. i dont think you should change it to some i think you should change it to the few people who iv seen...seem to think...</div> All the Raptor's fans I know are like that. They think Vince walks on water AND usually don't care what the team does as long as Vince does well. I'm in contact with lots of people from Toronto because my job requires it..and no these aren't mindless teenagers..these are 25-30 year old cats and they always ask me 'You see what Vince did?"..."Vince had so and so and so.."....and that depsite the fact that Raptors win or lose....So don't presume everything..I base my opinions on things I see/hear/know like most people. But I'm off the topic from what I originally set out for...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">All the Raptor's fans I know are like that. They think Vince walks on water AND usually don't care what the team does as long as Vince does well. I'm in contact with lots of people from Toronto because my job requires it..and no these aren't mindless teenagers..these are 25-30 year old cats and they always ask me 'You see what Vince did?"..."Vince had so and so and so.."....and that depsite the fact that Raptors win or lose....So don't presume everything..I base my opinions on things I see/hear/know like most people. But I'm off the topic from what I originally set out for...</div> wierd...those dont sound like basketball fans to me, sound like vince carter fans. i only know fans of the team and of the game, not vince carter groupies
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">lmao! there you go again! generalizing raptor fans. let me ask you this...what position are you in to be able to make these generalizations? do you live in toronto? do you go to raptors games and talk to loads of people? or do you just read whats posted on a couple msg boards by mostly teenaged kids? "they think he is perfect, they thing he can do no wrong" who are these people who think that? raptor fans? i dont know any raptor fans like that, and i live just outside of toronto...but somehow you know that ALL raptor fans are this way. i dont think you should change it to some i think you should change it to the few people who iv seen...seem to think...</div> Are you kidding me? What Raptors fans are known for is hanging onto Vince's nuts like Monkeys in a zoo.I actually know or should I say talked to many fans around the league on my travels.If you don't know any Raptors fans who act like I described them you seriously need to look harder.They are everywhere,It's like having 100 Ron Artest guarding you,No matter where you turn they are always there waiting. Vince Carter fans are right up there with the Kobe groupies.This subject has been talked about plenty of times,even on the chats.Everyone basically agrees.I really find it laughable that you think otherwise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allnet:</div><div class="quote_post"> Are you kidding me? What Raptors fans are known for is hanging onto Vince's nuts like Monkeys in a zoo.I actually know or should I say talked to many fans around the league on my travels.If you don't know any Raptors fans who act like I described them you seriously need to look harder.They are everywhere,It's like having 100 Ron Artest guarding you,No matter where you turn they are always there waiting. Vince Carter fans are right up there with the Kobe groupies.This subject has been talked about plenty of times,even on the chats.Everyone basically agrees.I really find it laughable that you think otherwise.</div> Word. Anyone who is objective enough to step out of Vince's shadow can see it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Word. Anyone who is objective enough to step out of Vince's shadow can see it.</div> I second that. Allnet has me rofl with his analogies, lol.
i think im looking from an objective point of view...im voicing my opinion based on the people i know and have talked to, not on what iv read on the almighty internet, and chat rooms! LOL! yeaaa! thats the place to talk to all the real fans chat rooms! big up vince carter fans are different from bball/raptor fans...thats been my experience. continue to generalize all you want, your opinion isnt more valid because you spend more time on the internet then i do
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">i think im looking from an objective point of view...im voicing my opinion based on the people i know and have talked to, not on what iv read on the almighty internet, and chat rooms! LOL! yeaaa! thats the place to talk to all the real fans chat rooms! big up vince carter fans are different from bball/raptor fans...thats been my experience. continue to generalize all you want, your opinion isnt more valid because you spend more time on the internet then i do</div> well bub,for your information..i was talking about people I talk with everyday on the telephone and people I see at least once a month..so don't you generalize that all of base our opinions off people from the net.
