<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Skip:</div><div class="quote_post">hahahahaha, by now even Vince have to admit the sh!t is funny. </div> BAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAH...OMFG!! your so right! how hillarious it really is!!!!
hey even vince haters are all interested in his situation....just goes to show you how popular he really is... guys, its a day-to-day, give it a rest...if it was a season ending injury then you'd have the right to bash him good... but every one misses games once in a while... those 2 years were just a bad stretch, hopefully he wont reinjure himself again...this year
I cannot believe the length that some of ya'll Raptor fans go to defend Vince. Can never admit the truth..Vince has went from one of the top 5 players in the League to the most overrated player..and that's largely the fault of the Raptor 'faithful'..it would be funny if it weren't so sad.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">I cannot believe the length that some of ya'll Raptor fans go to defend Vince. Can never admit the truth..Vince has went from one of the top 5 players in the League to the most overrated player..and that's largely the fault of the Raptor 'faithful'..it would be funny if it weren't so sad.</div> your right, im willing to go to lengths to defend vince when hes getting unjust critisism. i dont think hes anything like camby and i dont think hes a mediocre player. true hes not one of the top 5 players anymore, but hes still a good player on my fav team, so im gonna stick up for him. i can admit the truth...truth is, hes had 2 bad seasons in a pretty short career. thats the truth. i cant believe the lenghts some of yall will go to just to bash him. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> guys, its a day-to-day, give it a rest...if it was a season ending injury then you'd have the right to bash him good... but every one misses games once in a while... those 2 years were just a bad stretch, hopefully he wont reinjure himself again...this year</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">your right, im willing to go to lengths to defend vince when hes getting unjust critisism. i dont think hes anything like camby and i dont think hes a mediocre player. true hes not one of the top 5 players anymore, but hes still a good player on my fav team, so im gonna stick up for him. i can admit the truth...truth is, hes had 2 bad seasons in a pretty short career. thats the truth. i cant believe the lenghts some of yall will go to just to bash him.</div> You show me one quote where I bashed Vince? Show me one thing where I said Vince sucks? I have never bashed Vince...I said,along with many many other people,that Vince is just an average player now that what made extraordinary is gone now. It just shocks me that most Raptor fans view him as the same and balk at the notion that he is nowhere near the player he was and the fact that he is injury prone.... I'm sorry bub,three years in a row isn't just bad luck..it's a trend
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">You show me one quote where I bashed Vince? Show me one thing where I said Vince sucks? I have never bashed Vince...I said,along with many many other people,that Vince is just an average player now that what made extraordinary is gone now. It just shocks me that most Raptor fans view him as the same and balk at the notion that he is nowhere near the player he was and the fact that he is injury prone.... I'm sorry bub,three years in a row isn't just bad luck..it's a trend </div> 2 yrs in a row man....i think a day to day; one MAYBE two game injury doesnt count as 3 yrs in a row...and thats unjust critisism which i think you do a lot of. you havnt really "bashed" him persay, but little comments and wise cracks like "vince should keep a log of his medical history" and stuff like that is what im talkin about. your not really guilty of the "bashing" though...i didnt mean to point that finger directly at you, sorrz i didnt make that more clear. i cant believe you think an average player is someone in the top 10 in scoring. and before the trade...he was in the top 5 in scoring...hes dropped 2.5 ppg. frankly im pretty surprised you would call anyone in the top 5/10 scoring an "average" and "mediocre" player. i guess thats where our opinions differ, i wouldnt call someone like that average or mediocre...you just think im a big time homer, without an educated opinion
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">You show me one quote where I bashed Vince? Show me one thing where I said Vince sucks? I have never bashed Vince...I said,along with many many other people,that Vince is just an average player now that what made extraordinary is gone now. It just shocks me that most Raptor fans view him as the same and balk at the notion that he is nowhere near the player he was and the fact that he is injury prone.... I'm sorry bub,three years in a row isn't just bad luck..it's a trend </div> How can you say you are not hating on Vince? Every chance you get you have to say something deragatory towards him about him being soft and him changing his game and thats not just in this thread either. I see someone with a clear cut case of PHD(Player hating disease)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say you are not hating on Vince? Every chance you get you have to say something deragatory towards him about him being soft and him changing his game and thats not just in this post either. I see someone with a clear cut case of PHD(Player hating disease)</div> i dunno if hes a "player hater" but good call, i cant show you a post where you've said you hate vince, or think he sucks, but i certainly cant show you a post where you've given him ANY props at all. you may not think he deservs it, but plenty of people in the nba community have given him praise...SOME people think he deservs it, not JUST raptor fans
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">2 yrs in a row man....i think a day to day; one MAYBE two game injury doesnt count as 3 yrs in a row...and thats unjust critisism which i think you do a lot of. you havnt really "bashed" him persay, but little comments and wise cracks like "vince should keep a log of his medical history" and stuff like that is what im talkin about. your not really guilty of the "bashing" though...i didnt mean to point that finger directly at you, sorrz i didnt make that more clear. i cant believe you think an average player is someone in the top 10 in scoring. and before the trade...he was in the top 5 in scoring...hes dropped 2.5 ppg. frankly im pretty surprised you would call anyone in the top 5/10 scoring an "average" and "mediocre" player. i guess thats where our opinions differ, i wouldnt call someone like that average or mediocre...you just think im a big time homer, without an educated opinion</div> yes..two years in a row..the 01-02 season he went down with a knee injury....the 02-03 season he went down with another knee injury..this year he gets hurt because of some 'strain'....that's a trend brah..just because it doesn't take you out for 50 games doesn't mean it isn't an indicator...besides how many guys do you think play with the same 'strains' Vince has? Why do you keep bringing up scoring average? That doesn't mean you're a great player..does Vince commit himself to defense? No. Does Vince 'lead' his team since he is this great player? The Raptors sucked hard before the trade with a team that was very similar to the one that almost got them to the ECF. They made it that far because Vince picked them up and carried them when the rest of the team hit a dry patch..now he isn't capable or he is too afraid to do the things he did before..so what he's in the top 10 in scoring(well not anymore Michael Redd took his spot)scoring isnt the only thing involved in basketball and to be a great you have to do more than shoot the ball.. And no,I have never referred to you as someone with an uneducated opinion..I have,however,referred to yuou as a biased Raptor fan who oft times contradicts himself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say you are not hating on Vince? Every chance you get you have to say something deragatory towards him about him being soft and him changing his game and thats not just in this thread either. I see someone with a clear cut case of PHD(Player hating disease)</div> It's not hatin' brah..it's the fact that the alot Raptor fans have this high and mighty opinion of Vince...which in itself is fine..but when those fans start warping the facts that Vince isn't any different than 3 years ago..well that just shows a lack of an unbiased opinion and knowledge of the game of basketball.....furthermore Vince's current injury prone status can directly be attributed to the fact that he shows no interest in working on himself and his game in the offseason and it shows...big time...the whole being too injured to play yet he could dance the night away with some hoochies in a club didn't help his image. Oh and I believe its Playa Hatin' DEGREE not disease..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">i dunno if hes a "player hater" but good call, i cant show you a post where you've said you hate vince, or think he sucks, but i certainly cant show you a post where you've given him ANY props at all. you may not think he deservs it, but plenty of people in the nba community have given him praise...SOME people think he deservs it, not JUST raptor fans</div> my whole problem isn't with Vince. I love the cat..loved watchin' him in college and his first few years in the L were amazin'...my problem is with the fans..it's hard to have a conversation with someone who ignores facts...that whole thing is the very reason that Raptor fans are looked down upon as fans not to be taken seriously...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">It's not hatin' brah..it's the fact that the alot Raptor fans have this high and mighty opinion of Vince...which in itself is fine..but when those fans start warping the facts that Vince isn't any different than 3 years ago..well that just shows a lack of an unbiased opinion and knowledge of the game of basketball.....furthermore Vince's current injury prone status can directly be attributed to the fact that he shows no interest in working on himself and his game in the offseason and it shows...big time...the whole being too injured to play yet he could dance the night away with some hoochies in a club didn't help his image.</div> And when did anyone say that he was the same as three years ago...please find that post. Knowledge of the game of basketball my foot, you have no knowledge about Vince Carter only basing your opinion on him by what the sportscasters say or what the newspaper prints. Do you watch even 50% of the games he plays? If you did then that would lead me think that you have an educated opinion regarding this and not just based on hearsay. And is this injury long term? Its day to day, please give me a list of stars who never get injured once in awhile? Please, its so obvious that you are hating, not just in this thread but in others as well brah.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">yes..two years in a row..the 01-02 season he went down with a knee injury....the 02-03 season he went down with another knee injury..this year he gets hurt because of some 'strain'....that's a trend brah..just because it doesn't take you out for 50 games doesn't mean it isn't an indicator...besides how many guys do you think play with the same 'strains' Vince has?</div> dude...almost every player gets a game-time descision type injury...if he had one of those the past two seasons, noone would be calling him an injury prone player. he had two seasons of bad injuries...i wouldnt call this another "injury plagued" season just yet. besides the fact vince has already gone down with an injury and came back to play this year...hes a game time descision and listed as day to day, if he doesnt play today against atlanta, i bet you he plays the next game, in which case he would be playing with the strain. either way, we dont yet do we? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Why do you keep bringing up scoring average? That doesn't mean you're a great player..does Vince commit himself to defense? No. Does Vince 'lead' his team since he is this great player? The Raptors sucked hard before the trade with a team that was very similar to the one that almost got them to the ECF. They made it that far because Vince picked them up and carried them when the rest of the team hit a dry patch..now he isn't capable or he is too afraid to do the things he did before..so what he's in the top 10 in scoring(well not anymore Michael Redd took his spot)scoring isnt the only thing involved in basketball and to be a great you have to do more than shoot the ball..</div> i keep bringing up scoring average, because its certainly got SOMETHING to do with his skill as a player...to dismiss the amount hes scoring is just silly. and before the trade the team wasnt that bad, vince was the ONLY reason they were scoring any points. if it wasnt for vince, they would have been far worse...i saw a few games where he's put the team on his shoulders this year, the last gave vs. atl is just one of them. there was another game in philli where he did the same thing. do you think im just making that up? or did my eyes lie to me? and not commiting himself to D is just silly...every nba analyst iv seen talk about vince is the steps vince has taken forward on D because of coach, hes playing pretty darn good d this season, i think lots of people would agree, not just biased raptor fans <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And no,I have never referred to you as someone with an uneducated opinion..I have,however,referred to yuou as a biased Raptor fan who oft times contradicts himself.</div> thats certainly the impression i got...you seem to dismiss what i say, even when i post stats or substance to back up what i have to say...either way im just some biased fan to you. and i never contradicted myself, i think you might have misunderstood me on a couple occasions, which lets admit it, isnt hard for anyone to do when reading text. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">my whole problem isn't with Vince. I love the cat..loved watchin' him in college and his first few years in the L were amazin'...my problem is with the fans..it's hard to have a conversation with someone who ignores facts...that whole thing is the very reason that Raptor fans are looked down upon as fans not to be taken seriously...</div> which facts have i ignored? all i do is disagree with the OPINIONS you have, like hes average and mediocre. thats an opinion, not a fact...there are plenty of people who think hes having a pretty good season, and not just raptor fans, sports casters and such. iv posted plenty of facts with stats to back them up, but you choose to ignore them and just say im biased. but your right...a lot of raptor fans are looked down on and not taken seriously...thats why when an educated fan like myself comes along, people dont take what i have to say seriously...im just dismissed, even when i post a stat
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">dude...almost every player gets a game-time descision type injury...if he had one of those the past two seasons, noone would be calling him an injury prone player. he had two seasons of bad injuries...i wouldnt call this another "injury plagued" season just yet. besides the fact vince has already gone down with an injury and came back to play this year...hes a game time descision and listed as day to day, if he doesnt play today against atlanta, i bet you he plays the next game, in which case he would be playing with the strain. either way, we dont yet do we?</div> Nowhere did I say this another injury plagued year...What I said it certainly seems like a trend for Vince. I give Vince all the props in the world for comin' back from two knee injuries...I know how rough they are and they are very rough..but c'mon...you have to admit as far as injuries go Vince isn't very reliable <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">i keep bringing up scoring average, because its certainly got SOMETHING to do with his skill as a player...to dismiss the amount hes scoring is just silly. and before the trade the team wasnt that bad, vince was the ONLY reason they were scoring any points. if it wasnt for vince, they would have been far worse...i saw a few games where he's put the team on his shoulders this year, the last gave vs. atl is just one of them. there was another game in philli where he did the same thing. do you think im just making that up? or did my eyes lie to me? and not commiting himself to D is just silly...every nba analyst iv seen talk about vince is the steps vince has taken forward on D because of coach, hes playing pretty darn good d this season, i think lots of people would agree, not just biased raptor fans</div> The team wasn't that bad? Holy hell brah they were strugglin' to put up 90 a night..anyone remember the 56 point game they had against Minnesota? how bout that 60 point outing against the mighty Wizards? Without the trade for scoring and veteran leadership the Raptors would have quickly fallen off the radar. I'll admit Vince does seem to look at least interested in defense this year but there are still many instances where he just looks like he could care less on D(and yes I've seen many Raptor games this year) his D is improved...but I wouldn't call it pretty darn good.. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">thats certainly the impression i got...you seem to dismiss what i say, even when i post stats or substance to back up what i have to say...either way im just some biased fan to you. and i never contradicted myself, i think you might have misunderstood me on a couple occasions, which lets admit it, isnt hard for anyone to do when reading text. which facts have i ignored? all i do is disagree with the OPINIONS you have, like hes average and mediocre. thats an opinion, not a fact...there are plenty of people who think hes having a pretty good season, and not just raptor fans, sports casters and such. iv posted plenty of facts with stats to back them up, but you choose to ignore them and just say im biased. but your right...a lot of raptor fans are looked down on and not taken seriously...thats why when an educated fan like myself comes along, people dont take what i have to say seriously...im just dismissed, even when i post a stat</div> Well maybe I have misunderstood you somewhere..but there was a couple of contradictory posts in that Soft NBA Players thread..but thats beside the point...and I have never just dismissed you have I? Have I just said to hell with it you suck and so does your opinion? The last time I looked we are having a conversation..yano..back and forth?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Nowhere did I say this another injury plagued year...What I said it certainly seems like a trend for Vince. I give Vince all the props in the world for comin' back from two knee injuries...I know how rough they are and they are very rough..but c'mon...you have to admit as far as injuries go Vince isn't very reliable</div> i know man, i know you never said its an injury plagued year, but i kinda think it would have to be to call it three years in a row. what if he plays tonight? is it still 3 yrs in a row? what if he misses tonight, but plays the rest of the season and the whole next season? is he still an unreliable "injury prone" player? like i said, i think that fact that it was two years in a row, and since it was the past two years, its just still fresh in everyones mind. its a little early in what i hope to be a long career to say hes a marcus camby type player. i for one am going to wait this season out to see how he finnishes. if he spends a bunch of time on the IL, THEN i will call him a "camby". he may finnish strong and play well, in which case ill be sure to give you some of your words to eat <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The team wasn't that bad? Holy hell brah they were strugglin' to put up 90 a night..anyone remember the 56 point game they had against Minnesota? how bout that 60 point outing against the mighty Wizards? Without the trade for scoring and veteran leadership the Raptors would have quickly fallen off the radar. I'll admit Vince does seem to look at least interested in defense this year but there are still many instances where he just looks like he could care less on D(and yes I've seen many Raptor games this year) his D is improved...but I wouldn't call it pretty darn good.. </div> not bad yes. not good yes. they were a "not bad" team. the fact that they were struggling to put points on the board, and still managed to be .500 or over id say was "not bad". those few games they were a disgrace ill admit, but managing to stay around the .500 mark with as many struggles as they were having is "not bad". and trust me, he cares about D. maybe to you it looks like he couldnt care less...but he cares...hes making a big effort. thats the vince im watching at least. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well maybe I have misunderstood you somewhere..but there was a couple of contradictory posts in that Soft NBA Players thread..but thats beside the point...and I have never just dismissed you have I? Have I just said to hell with it you suck and so does your opinion? The last time I looked we are having a conversation..yano..back and forth?</div> that soft players thread is exactly where im sayin you misunderstood me...maybe i did contradict myself once...but its not something im in the habit of making plus last time i thought we were having a conversation, and then i got the flattering comparison to your kitchen wall
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The team wasn't that bad? Holy hell brah they were strugglin' to put up 90 a night..anyone remember the 56 point game they had against Minnesota? how bout that 60 point outing against the mighty Wizards? Without the trade for scoring and veteran leadership the Raptors would have quickly fallen off the radar. I'll admit Vince does seem to look at least interested in defense this year but there are still many instances where he just looks like he could care less on D(and yes I've seen many Raptor games this year) his D is improved...but I wouldn't call it pretty darn good..</div> Who the fuk cares? We were still above .500 at the time! I understand what you're sayin about VC tho. In fact, everyone I know here in Toronto pretty much disses Vince(whether a huge fan or not) on how he looks so "uninspired" and refuses to play his best, or drive to the basket more often. I mean hell, Im a Vince fan too but I talk about that all the time. But I remember somewhere you said he went from Top 5 to most overrated to average? I agree with first two parts but average? You must b smokin crack. And you STILL havent answered dj's question. He already posted the stats to back up his point and you ignored it. Tell me where you answered that back. You only said The fact is Vince is a scorer, he's no Penny. Aside from gettin hurt alot and playin soft, he's still a gifted athelete. What I hate about his game is that when playin D, he always stands around lookin at other guys like he aint got a clue what he's supposed to do. I laughed like a mutha when that ball was just bouncin on and off all the hands of Raps and Spurs tryin to get it (earlier this season) and Vince never moved an INCH from where he was standin, besides spinnin around on that exact same spot lookin at who's gon get the ball. That just pissed the sh!t out of me.... but that's not the point, the point is, Vince is an all-star no matter what. And he STILL puts up 20 per game. In fact, this is STILL the best all-around game Vince has had since.... EVER in his career. He always talks about bein a complete player and altho he still looks lazy and sh!t, you could tell he wants it. Conclusion? VINCE IS A SOFTIE, HE'S A MOMMA'S BOI, AND THE BIGGEST WHINER + DRAMA-KING BUT NEVERTHLESS... A GIFTED SCORER AND SUPERIOR "NATURAL" ATHELTE TO UH, AT LEAST 90% OF THE BALLERS(dead or alive) ON EARTH. I dun think you can call that average. Average players dun put up 20+ per game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">i know man, i know you never said its an injury plagued year, but i kinda think it would have to be to call it three years in a row. what if he plays tonight? is it still 3 yrs in a row? what if he misses tonight, but plays the rest of the season and the whole next season? is he still an unreliable "injury prone" player? like i said, i think that fact that it was two years in a row, and since it was the past two years, its just still fresh in everyones mind. its a little early in what i hope to be a long career to say hes a marcus camby type player. i for one am going to wait this season out to see how he finnishes. if he spends a bunch of time on the IL, THEN i will call him a "camby". he may finnish strong and play well, in which case ill be sure to give you some of your words to eat </div> i hope i end up eating every word i've ever said about Vince...i'd like nothing more..but my contention was merely that with two major injuries things werent just coincidental but a trend as to the type of career it was shaping up to being..no one hopes he's able to revert back to super Vince more than me. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">not bad yes. not good yes. they were a "not bad" team. the fact that they were struggling to put points on the board, and still managed to be .500 or over id say was "not bad". those few games they were a disgrace ill admit, but managing to stay around the .500 mark with as many struggles as they were having is "not bad". and trust me, he cares about D. maybe to you it looks like he couldnt care less...but he cares...hes making a big effort. thats the vince im watching at least.</div> My whole point is that you can't contribute the fact that the Raptors are in play-off contention merely because of Vince's leadership..they play totally different now that Rose and Marshall are on board..those guys make as much,if not more of a leadership contribution than Vince does. But like I said previous,I hope i eat every word I've ever said about Vince because at the top of his game he's great to watch and I for one love watchin' him like that.. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">that soft players thread is exactly where im sayin you misunderstood me...maybe i did contradict myself once...but its not something im in the habit of making plus last time i thought we were having a conversation, and then i got the flattering comparison to your kitchen wall </div> Well I made that comparison because it seemed you weren't really taking in the points I was trying to make...but on the flip side...it's all just opinion..and like Dennis Miller says..I could be wrong.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Skip:</div><div class="quote_post">Conclusion? VINCE IS A SOFTIE, HE'S A MOMMA'S BOI, AND THE BIGGEST WHINER + DRAMA-KING BUT NEVERTHLESS... A GIFTED SCORER AND SUPERIOR "NATURAL" ATHELTE TO UH, AT LEAST 90% OF THE BALLERS(dead or alive) ON EARTH. I dun think you can call that average. Average players dun put up 20+ per game.</div> Playa I never disputed any of that..my contention Vince isn't the take over a game at will,drive hard to the hole,dunk on a mofo,do anything he wants type of cat anymore. Anyone who says Vince isn't a gifted athlete is gettin' high off they own supply but to say this incarnation of Vince is great is a vast overstatement of facts....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">i hope i end up eating every word i've ever said about Vince...i'd like nothing more..but my contention was merely that with two major injuries things werent just coincidental but a trend as to the type of career it was shaping up to being..no one hopes he's able to revert back to super Vince more than me.</div> correction, there is one person who hopes that more then you...ME <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> My whole point is that you can't contribute the fact that the Raptors are in play-off contention merely because of Vince's leadership..they play totally different now that Rose and Marshall are on board..those guys make as much,if not more of a leadership contribution than Vince does. But like I said previous,I hope i eat every word I've ever said about Vince because at the top of his game he's great to watch and I for one love watchin' him like that..</div> neither of us can really say who the leader is, because neither of us are in the dressing room, but jalen has said himself that its vince's team, hes the leader and a great player in the league. thats actually a direct quote from jalen. marshall is a 3rd option/role player...he doesnt demand any touches, and just does whatever it takes to win...hes not a leader or even one of them. but i agree that the raps are certainly playing a different style of ball now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well I made that comparison because it seemed you weren't really taking in the points I was trying to make...but on the flip side...it's all just opinion..and like Dennis Miller says..I could be wrong. </div> word...i guess i just took that comment a little more to heart then i should have...when i came to this board i came looking for educated mature conversations about ball, and thought i was having a great one, then i got called a kitchen wall lol raps/hawks tip off time, ill catch ya lates bruv :thumbsup:
Just goes to show you how going through heated, intelligent arguments like these only makes people stronger.
