Gaurds: Do they cause more harm than good to a team? Gaurds are supposed to be the go to man for a reason, and that reason is to score. MJ was a perfect example of that with his incridible skills. I think too many gaurds today want to be like MJ and have this mindset of "shoot first, pass second". I dont want to say any names, but these gaurds always want to take over the game and just toss up shots like MJ. This really hurts a team because other teammates get less touches, and not getting any exp. from it. Plus, around 40 percent of the shots taken are not goin in. The gaurds get cocky and start to think thier team isnt good enough and that doesn't help a team either. Do most gaurds cause more harm than good to thier teams?
Hahaha. Well, some guards are that way, but I hope you're not talking guards in general - we have a shooting guard position for a reason. Alot of guards help their team out. I see very few that can actually be found as detrimental to their teams' success (or failure). In the East, most teams rely on point guards to do a lot of the scoring, because most teams lack that inside presence that most Western teams possess, so they have to take shots and score. Of course, most of them do rack up a nice amount of assists while scoring most games (Marbury, B Davis, Kidd).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">whats a gaurd? </div> damn, that's nasty big nasty. if the guards passed more, you'll see a lot of the other players missing a bunch of shots too. a team offense is gonna be run through its best scorer and in many teams that's a guard or a forward. guards also take a lot of low percentage shots because they are farther away from the basket and they get fouled on penetration. i really don't see many guards being detrimental to their teams. btw, there are tons of shooting guards in the east who are primary options: iverson, paul pierce, t-mac, eddie jones, allan houston, vince carter, michael redd... none of them i would say hurts their team
IMO, Barron Davis and Jason Kidd are bad shooters, but they are so good in so many other areas of the game it doesn't even matter. I want to take the Lakers as an example for what I am talkin about. When Shaq is out injured, Kobe is left there to take control of the team himself, and the Lakers loose more games with Kobe alone. More points are allowed, field goal percentages are lower, and the rest of the team rarely get touches because Kobe is jacking up shots all day long. :thumbsdow There is no "I" in team.
the lakers lose more games with kobe alone just as any team who loses their superstar to injury will lose more games (sacramento being the exception). and just to shoot that myth down, the lakers without shaq may lose more games, but they do not have a losing record.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post">IMO, Barron Davis and Jason Kidd are bad shooters, but they are so good in so many other areas of the game it doesn't even matter. I want to take the Lakers as an example for what I am talkin about. When Shaq is out injured, Kobe is left there to take control of the team himself, and the Lakers loose more games with Kobe alone. More points are allowed, field goal percentages are lower, and the rest of the team rarely get touches because Kobe is jacking up shots all day long. :thumbsdow There is no "I" in team.</div> But there is ME...Team You said the obvious, they lose more with Kobe alone(well of course, why would they do better with Shaq out the lineup?), more points are allowed(of course, I would take it in all day too if Slava/Grant was the frontcourt), field goal percentages are lower(because a lot of 'role players' can't create for themselves), if Kobe weren't jacking up shots, the other Lakers couldn't do any better. I know that was just an example, but I have no idea in the world how guards can hurt your team. I also guess you can say it's harder for a guard to score in a way. When you have a dominate big man like Shaq, KG, Duncan type, you get position, post, hook, fade, or whatever. Rather when your a guard, I don't think that it's just bad shooting. Guards have to create for themselves, most of the time from the perimeter, and are forced to take more bad % of shots.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting live on da arc:</div><div class="quote_post">how do the lakers do with kobe out of the line up</div> When they have Shaq and no Kobe, their play much better, which I think is because it's easier for Shaq to get more of our role players involved, since their not capable of creating their own shot as easily as Kobe, Shaq can set it up for them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting live on da arc:</div><div class="quote_post">how do the lakers do with kobe out of the line up</div> Not too shabby. They're undefeated this year without him. I have to disagree that guards are completely to blame. I mean, you obviously need them; who's gonna take the ball up the court, those big plodding centers and power forwards? But seriously, guards shoot the lowest percentage on shots than any other position, but that's for the simple reason that they're supposed to provide the outside scoring on the team, and outside shots are lower percentage than inside shots. Its not the fault of guards that big men aren't getting as many touches as back in the day. If anyone is at fault for copying MJ, I'd say the big guys are. And its not so much MJ as Larry Bird. More big guys are sacrificing post games in order to extend the range of their shots, to become good outside shooters. They remember Bird was big and had a great outside shot. But they forget that he also had a great 4 and 5 to play with. These days, there aren't that many great 5's, because they play power forward. Guys like Duncan, KG, Dirk, they would have been centers 15 years ago, and have the skills to be dominating centers, taking the place of Dream, Ewing and Robinson. Without great post scorers, its pretty hard to dump the ball inside, something that both point guards and shooting guards were often encouraged to do back in the day. So they have to create shots for themselves, which often turns into all those moves and shots you're talking about.
Some guards can cause more harm than good. However, it depends if they are cocky in general. Also, if the team has no dominant inside player, they wouldn't try to go inside with the ball, for example, the Magic. I would rather have Tracy doing everything that he can then trying to give it to the inside player. Other guards will look to pass unless they are shooting very well. An example of this would be the recent Billups/Atkins. Last season, they would throw up threes, even if they weren't hitting them. Now, under Larry Brown, these shoot-first PGs look to create oppurtunities for the team. It just depends on the team, the attitude of the players, and the coaching philosophy, but it is possible that guards often cause more harm than good. Oh, and what is with the sudden rush of Piston fans when we have a winning streak? Anyways, welcome to the board ludacris06, as always check out the Piston's forum.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Purple N Gold:</div><div class="quote_post">But there is ME...Team You said the obvious, they lose more with Kobe alone(well of course, why would they do better with Shaq out the lineup?), more points are allowed(of course, I would take it in all day too if Slava/Grant was the frontcourt), field goal percentages are lower(because a lot of 'role players' can't create for themselves), if Kobe weren't jacking up shots, the other Lakers couldn't do any better. I know that was just an example, but I have no idea in the world how guards can hurt your team. I also guess you can say it's harder for a guard to score in a way. When you have a dominate big man like Shaq, KG, Duncan type, you get position, post, hook, fade, or whatever. Rather when your a guard, I don't think that it's just bad shooting. Guards have to create for themselves, most of the time from the perimeter, and are forced to take more bad % of shots.</div> We can't forget last year, though. Kobe can carry the Lakers. Remember that string of him scoring 40 or more after the All Star break with no Shaq? Yeah... This yeah, with the exception of Payton, his help isn't as good as before... And KG played a little Center this year. And let's not forget how Shooting Guard Manu Ginobili almost carried the Spurs to a victory over the Lakers without Duncan in the first meeting of the season. He set all kinds of career highs in that game (which they should have won).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PyroManiac:</div><div class="quote_post"> Oh, and what is with the sudden rush of Piston fans when we have a winning streak? Anyways, welcome to the board ludacris06, as always check out the Piston's forum.</div> Im from Detroit man. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not talking about all the gaurds in general, but some gaurds. I look at Tracy Mcgrady who is a great player, but sometimes he needs to share the ball a little bit more. Some players just need to loose as a team sometimes so the star player can share the experience with the other players on the team, so they can learn from thier mistakes. Jerry Stackhouse and Allen Iverson are other examples. They have shooting skill, but they just decide to just throw up shots when not needed. They can have 3 hands in thier face and still take a shot. There are many other ways of scoring like attacking the basket like these gaurds do, but after they already jacked up so many shots, it really doesnt matter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post"> There is no "I" in team.</div> there's no "WE" in team either :mrgreen:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">there's no "WE" in team either :mrgreen:</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post">Im from Detroit man.</div> That is not what I meant. When I first joined, there where no Piston fans. Suddenly, there are more joining everyday. I'm not calling them bandwagon jumpers, because most of them are from Michigan. I'm just glad that the Piston forum can actually have a few more replies.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post">Im from Detroit man. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not talking about all the gaurds in general, but some gaurds. I look at Tracy Mcgrady who is a great player, but sometimes he needs to share the ball a little bit more. Some players just need to loose as a team sometimes so the star player can share the experience with the other players on the team, so they can learn from thier mistakes. Jerry Stackhouse and Allen Iverson are other examples. They have shooting skill, but they just decide to just throw up shots when not needed. They can have 3 hands in thier face and still take a shot. There are many other ways of scoring like attacking the basket like these gaurds do, but after they already jacked up so many shots, it really doesnt matter.</div> Then why do we call them Shooting Guards? But really, that's what they're supposed to do, but they still rack up some assists. McGrady, recently, hasbeen averaging around 7, as has Iverson.
Guards have their place in the game- as perimeter scorers, perimeter defenders, passing specialists, guys who can break down defenses...I think only a few guards are ruining the game, but not the position as a whole...there's a place for them in the league...
