I respect you a lot Wave, but this have really lowerd my opinion of you. You have made your point, please let it go. Picking on a guy that has played 60 career NBA games is pathetic (most of them injured/coming back from injury) I am asking you to please stop this, because I can't believe what I am reading.
Wagner isn't in the top 4 in scoring for the Cavs becasue he has only played a handful of games and played limited minutes in all of them. Wagner may not have good assist numbers, but the Cavs don't put him in the game to run the offense, they put him in for a scoring boost. Due to injuries, Wagner has not been able to put together any significant stretch of playing time yet in his career, so judging him already is ridiculous. Once he gets back to 100% and starts getting 30+ minutes a game, his numbers will come around. Arguing over his merits at this point in his 60 game career is frivilous.
Wow what a huge debate about Wagner. I didn't feel like reading Wave's long essay's so I will just say this. Wagner is the on the bench for a reason. He doesn't want to explore the point guard position and that hurts his playing time with James playing 40 minutes and McInnis and Ollie playing great ball. If he wants to be a top 4 player here in Cleveland he has to be versitile in both the guard spots.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">I respect you a lot Wave, but this have really lowerd my opinion of you. You have made your point, please let it go. Picking on a guy that has played 60 career NBA games is pathetic (most of them injured/coming back from injury) I am asking you to please stop this, because I can't believe what I am reading.</div> How does this arguement lower your opinion of me? I've made my point and told you why all of your points have been wrong. I don't walk away from an arguement. Why should I? We split this from the game thread, and this is a healthy debate on it's own. How many times must I explain (READ MY POSTS) that I am not "picking" on Wagner. I can't stress that enough. I'm simply saying that he's among elite competition. Also, I've also said countless times that I have followed Wagner outside of the NBA. I had season tickets to the Memphis Tigers when he played on them, so I've seen my fair share of Dajuan. Is sixty games not enough to form opinions about a players game? We're not talking about what he could develop into. We're talking about what he is NOW. Why should I stop. Please give me a good reason. Better yet, give me a good reason why Dajuan Wagner is not a top four Cavalier. You have yet to do so. People want to debate with me, and I want to debate with them. You'd believe what you are reading if you'd actually read my posts instead of skimming them or only reading what you want to. Don't think I'm continuing to post in this thread as an insult to you either. This is nothing personal, just a debate. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting redscoon:</div><div class="quote_post">Wagner isn't in the top 4 in scoring for the Cavs becasue he has only played a handful of games and played limited minutes in all of them.</div> I realize that Wagner has not played as many games, but he's still averaging over twenty minutes per game. Is that not enough? I get where you're coming from, but even if he were the second highest scorer my opinion wouldn't change. If his game is just shooting, then he should lead the Cavaliers in scoring and be second to none. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wagner may not have good assist numbers, but the Cavs don't put him in the game to run the offense, they put him in for a scoring boost.</div> Well, if you look around the league you'll find that some of the biggest hackers average a lot better assist numbers than 0.5 assists per game. Tracy McGrady, Brent Barry, Paul Pierce, and even Antoine Walker average 5.5 assists per game or more. Why can't Dajuan Wagner? What gives him the right to just shoot (36%), do nothing else, and be considered a top four Cavalier? I'm still searching for answers. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Due to injuries, Wagner has not been able to put together any significant stretch of playing time yet in his career, so judging him already is ridiculous. Once he gets back to 100% and starts getting 30+ minutes a game, his numbers will come around.</div> Sixty plus games is a lot of games. College stats count as well. I've seen him at his prime (University of Memphis). Also, if Wagner needs time to develop then why should we consider him a top four Cavalier now? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr_Infante:</div><div class="quote_post">Wagner is the on the bench for a reason. He doesn't want to explore the point guard position and that hurts his playing time with James playing 40 minutes and McInnis and Ollie playing great ball. If he wants to be a top 4 player here in Cleveland he has to be versitile in both the guard spots.</div> Great point, Mr_Infante! He is one dimensional, and he's not even THAT great at that one dimension (scoring).
Attitude of Cavs' Wagner is pointless <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">More than a few NBA in siders think Cavaliers shooting guard Dajuan Wagner is not only limiting the team by showing little interest in playing point guard but limiting his career as well. They say Wagner, who's a smallish 6-2 and has undergone two knee surgeries in a year, could add major value to his NBA future by having an open mind about playing point guard occasionally. But after having mixed success in the point role as a rookie last season, Wagner now wants to be only a shooting guard - and runs from the idea of doing double duty as though it were a chicken with avian flu. Wagner's distaste for playing anything but shooting guard is one reason the Cavs were recently forced to beef up the point spot by acquiring veteran Jeff McInnis from Portland. Clearly, the Cavs have no faith these days in guard J.R. Bremer. The former Cleveland Heights High standout gets little playing time nowadays. But it's hard to believe someone who started numerous games for a playoff contender last season and made the NBA's All-Rookie second team - as Bremer did with Boston - is totally incapable of contributing ANYTHING to a club 12 games below .500 (as the Cavs are now). </div> Plain Dealer
Didn't we try the Wagner PG experiment last year? Didn't it fail miserably? Why would it all of a sudden work now?
That's the risk that you incur when you draft a combo guard...I really never saw him being a point guard anyway...hopefully, he knows what he's doing and he'll get his season turned around soon
HaHa....... Dwags only wants to play the 2, thats so he can have the green light to shoot all day. He must have Allen Iverson Dreams. You cant turn somebody who spent his whole High scholl & college career taking 20 plus shoots a night into a pure point guard on the NBA level. D.wags is a scorer, let him do what he does best or trade him to a team that can use his what he brings to the table. If the Cavs keep booking on him being a point guard in the future then all he is going to do is dissappoint them. If he works to develope more parts of his game, he can become a bobby Jackson type of player for the cavs in the future. I dont think he will ever be a starting 2 guard on the NBA level & especially not with the cavs. But he can develope in to a very good six man with alot of scoring power off the bench for the cavs. But he needs to work on getting some consistency to his perimeter shot.
I think the reason Silias wants him to occasionally play point b/c he might see a little Baron Davis in him. Baron hoists 20 shots a game as the point Wag would do the same.
No he really isn't that great. But he is good enough. Wagner is 100% and ready to play enought minutes to be a significant offensive threat out there. I just think he doesn't have the confidence in him yet. Like I have said time and time again, Wagner is still a rookie.
Just because some national columnist THINKS Wagner should play the PG doesn't mean that that is what he is supposed to do. The Cavs tried running Wags at the point last year and it didn't work. Much in the same way that they occasionally experimented with Miles at the point. Just because a guy is small and can handle the ball a little doesn't mean he has to be a PG. Wagner has always been a scorer first, both at Camden and at Memphis. You can get away with just playing offense in high school and in college, but it doesn't work that way in the NBA. He is still adjusting to the pro game just like all of our young guys are. His assists numbers are not impressive, but he is at least giving effort out there to try and get better. In one game against the Sonics he pulled down 7 boards in limited minutes and has made a couple of very impressive blocks. You may feel that 60 games in the NBA (non consecutive mind you) is plenty of time to offer fair judgment on a player, but I disagree completely. The kid has undergone two knee surgeries and a kidney infection already and we are going to bitch about how he isn't getting as many assists as Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, and Antoine Walker who have been in the league for years? Come on now, that is just stupid. I've been reading through this thread and trying to find where any Cavs fan said that Wagner was one of the 4 most valuable players to the Cavs. I haven't found it yet, so if someone said this, point me to it. I'm still trying to figure out what this debate is about. Also, Wagner was by no means in his "prime" while playing at Memphis. An 18 year old kid is nowhere near his prime. Wave I realize that you must hate to lose arguments, but there comes a time when the horse you are beating has died long ago. I can only hope that you realize this soon and stop being so foolish.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">.wags is a scorer, let him do what he does best or trade him to a team that can use his what he brings to the table. If the Cavs keep booking on him being a point guard in the future then all he is going to do is dissappoint them. If he works to develope more parts of his game, he can become a bobby Jackson type of player for the cavs in the future.</div> BINGO! I don't have a problem with him being our 6th man that can come off the bench and score 20 on any given night, every team needs someone like that off the pine. Let Wagner shoot the ball, please.
Better pick up the pace Wave if you want to advance in my tourny Wagner has not even come close to being in his prime. I am happy with him as our Bobby Jackson type player. Let him develop a few years, then you can drop the hammer all you want. Wave, I see your point, but fact is... Bron and Boozer have been the only consistant Cavs all season, so they take 2 of the 4 spots easily. As for the other 2, no Cavaliers have been consistant enough to have earned those spots. Diop, Williams, Wagner, we have different players step up every night. Z on the other hand, has not earned a damn thing. He is our max paid player who sits on the BENCH in every single 4th quarter. The ONE big game he had this year, Wagner won that game for us in the 4th scoring 5 points in the last minute when we were behind. End of story, pointless garbage argument, thread closed, have a good day. KJ
