<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Phreeze:</div><div class="quote_post">Every time a Laker fan posts a complaint or any sort, you seem to be right there criticizing that post. You also defend your Suns like you describe us of how we do with our team.</div> First off, I've posted twice about the Lakers... one to say that the 2nd stringers wouldn't beat the Suns (I was right), and you all read what I said as if I said you were ALL bandwagon fans... granted after reading it, I even felt my wording was a little bad. But in any case I was right. Then THIS post... so where's "every" coming from? Me be more mature? You're the one calling me out every minute of every day in every post I've ever made. I just say it like I see it... Shaq curses you guys defend it, it's ridiculous. I've never defended the Suns when they've done wrong things. When Jason Kidd beat his wife I was furious he wasn't suspended, when Cliff Robinson got caught smoking weed, I was again furious. I'm not the bias one, you're wanting Shaq to get away with bad bahavior because your team will have to be without him for a single game... and you're obviously doubting the Lakers can win without him. So show me all these other posts I've ragged on the Lakers, and please show me where I defend the Suns the same way you guys are in this post. When I say "The Suns will beat the injured Lakers" isn't the same as saying "Shaq shouldn't get any punishment for cursing, I found it funny". I don't condone such behavior no matter WHAT team it comes from. Also stop bringing up Rasheed, who cares if he said what he said, he didn't go on LIVE TV and curse AFTER knowing it was live. I don't care what Shaq said about the refs or David Stern, he had a point... problem = CURSING ON LIVE TV!! Anyway as you see others do agree with me... some of you are just missing the point entirely like you ALWAYS do every time I was right before, I'm right again!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway as you see others do agree with me... some of you are just missing the point entirely like you ALWAYS do every time I was right before, I'm right again!!</div> Well like I said I completely agree on the punishment, and I think he got a fair one for that. how am I missing the point on that if I just said in my post that I agreed on that part, and he should be suspended? I don't see you agreeing to the punishment if this were one of the Suns players, and not Shaq though.
So because Wallace didn't have his tantrum on live tv, that means it's dismissable? I guess our idea of logical punishment just differs. Words are only "bad" because we make them so, anyone who was so extremely offended by Shaq's words are a little too sensitive IMO - sticks and stones...I'm not backing Shaq just because he's on the Lakers, I would back anyone who speaks their mind and gets punished for it unjustly. Whether it was Shaq, Malone, or even one of my least favorite players like Kenyon Martin (who made that list for his comments about Alonzo Mourning's kidney problems). From what I can remember, Barkley made quite a few "outrageous" comments in his day - I supported him when he had valid points, and critisized him when I felt otherwise, but never did I feel that he should have been suspended for simply speaking his mind. Hypersensitivity is running rampant, some people need to grow a thicker skin.
Scorbutic, it's not a question of who is right or wrong, the punishment is subjective, thus the debate. Also most of us agree Shaq should be fined and cursing on TV is unexceptable, but like OGShowtime said, "Hypersensitivity is running rampant, some people need to grow a thicker skin." You also claim Laker's management isn't upset with the decison by the NBA, please read this ... Lakers coach Phil Jackson called the punishment "rather severe and childish in some ways." "The league is known for its vindictiveness," Jackson said. "But we didn't anticipate a suspension." Full link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1725490 If the NBA considered this such a severe matter, they would have created rules for this already, along with outlined suspensions and fines for it. This is not the first time profanity has slipped out on "Live TV" for the NBA. The NBA should have at least allowed Shaq time to calm down and apologize for his actions. By imposing this suspension right away, they have created a dangerous precedence. Again, it gives the league, too much power over the players and outcome of a game. What happens if a player is caught in a timeout cursing on "Live TV?" What happens if a player's profanity is picked up during a play, while he's trashtalking? Also you are assuming we are only arguing because it was a Laker. I would argue this point for any player in the league. It's a ridiculous ruling and shows the NBA commission can abuse their power and make rules up as they go along.
Well Phreeze can't read, so I'll re-post what I said... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When Jason Kidd beat his wife I was furious he wasn't suspended, when Cliff Robinson got caught smoking weed, I was again furious.</div> I would be happy with a 1 game suspension if Marion went on Live TV and then said F**K twice!! Happy, because I thought it deserved 2 games... believe me when I say I have NOTHING wrong with Shaq or the Lakers organization, I don't like Rick Fox, Phil Jackson, and all the hype (due to bandwagon fans) but I own several pairs of Kobes, I like Kobe, he's a good ball player, of course I don't support the Lakers because they are in the Pacific, but I'm not a Lakers Hater (you all think that because I'm not sucking up to them and jumping all over their bandwagon). This isn't about Lakers vs Suns, because again Kidd and Robinson both played for Phoenix when they did their "bad" deed and I was all for suspensions and fines. I notice the people calling me a Laker Hater and saying if this was a Suns player, all have "Lakers" in their favorite team... People come on the Suns forum all the time saying "Joe Johnson is inconsistant", "Barbosa isn't good", "Suns suck" -- we don't go ape-s**t and call them Suns-Haters... so calm down and actually read what I'm saying instead of assuming because I have Marion and Barkley on my av/sig that I'm anti-LA!! If you guys actually READ even 10% of my posts you'd see we're all in agreement, you just WANT to read that I'm hating on the Lakers, so instead of repeating myself I'll post a series of quotes I've already made, maybe you'll take time to read... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm all for cursing and free speech, but I also believe in rules, and one of those rules is you can't do those on TV.</div> I agree with you guys saying people are too sensative... but while it's a rule we ALL have to obey, Shaq doesn't get special treatment because he's your best player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"Free Speech!! Free Speech!! Oh wait somebody said something bad about the Lakers, he shouldn't say that, let's censor him." Double-standards, gotta love it :bigthumbu </div> Out of one side of your mouth you are saying Shaq is okay for free speech, but I'm not... again it's bias towards your favorite players. So you can see why I find it so funny you call me bias... ---------------- <div class="quote_poster">Quoting OgShowtime:</div><div class="quote_post">So because Wallace didn't have his tantrum on live tv, that means it's dismissable? I guess our idea of logical punishment just differs.</div> So are you now saying players shouldn't have tantrums and curse ever? Even in their own house? Wallace privately had a conversation with some reporter... that's different than going on LIVE TV and AFTER being warned saying "F**K" again, did you hear Wallace curse twice on national TV? No, if he did curse it was in a private conversation nobody could hear... again I'm not saying suspend Shaq for his referee/Stern comments, WHO CARES ABOUT STERN AND THE REFS? The suspension is for one simple comment, the 2nd time he said "F**K" seeing as he was TOLD it was LIVE TV and everybody could hear... read the words I'm typing!! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">What happens if a player is caught in a timeout cursing on "Live TV?" What happens if a player's profanity is picked up during a play, while he's trashtalking?</div> Now I think you guys are just arguing to argue... because these points are not even close to what the real point is. Cursing accidently is one thing, cursing AFTER BEING TOLD you are LIVE, is wrong!! When I watch games I hear cursing all the time, it's no big deal because it's kinda muffled, and it's the networks fault for allowing mics to pick up on-court action. So how's that the same as a player going out of his way to purposely make it a point that millions of people hear him say "F**K" clearly as possible? I've given up... every time I come on this forum you guys read what you want to read, argue retarded points, convince yourself you're right, and it turns out you're not (Suns won just like I said)... I'm obviously not going to get you to see my point (which isn't much different than your's) because you don't even want to READ my points... you see "Lakers... Shaq.... suspension... should be more" and begin your replies -- read the posts twice maybe. <font color="Red">DISCLAIMER>></font> One of the biggest problems I see on this forum is that you all take things personal... when I write I'm rarely talking about 30 people at once, so why does everybody take what I write as personal? If I mention your name then you can take it personal... I read the posts, form an opinion and post it. I don't look at one post and think "Oh I hate that person" and then write my post... a lot of you see my name and automatically hate me, I don't know if it's the Suns pictures or my name, or maybe you read 2 lines and assume I'm attacking the Lakers. Whatever case it is, I'm not here to ruin your life and bring down the Laker Empire, I'm just stating my opinion about breaking the rules/laws and how NBA players aren't any more important than you or I, and should obey by the same rules. David Stern and the refs suck, we agree. Cursing is just stupid words, why are people offended, we agree on that too. What we don't agree on is, rules are rules, and even though Shaq is your fav player, he should have to obey by them as well... and no matter WHAT YOU THINK cursing on TV after being told you are on LIVE TV, is wrong and against rules. LISTEN TO ME ON THIS... If it was a Suns player I would STILL want 2 games, I thought Kidd and Robinson got away with "murder" because all they had to do was hold a press conference saying how sorry they were, and it was a half-a$$ apology at that.
When you use words like ALL YOU LAKER FANS, or ALL OF YOU, then yes you are going to rub people the wrong way and some will take it personally. I never called you a Laker hater and you have valid points, we just don't agree on the punishment. You say my points are not valid, but if you want to enforce a rule to not allow profanity. How do those points not apply? Who determines what accidental cursing is? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">One of the biggest problems I see on this forum is that you all take things personal... when I write I'm rarely talking about 30 people at once, so why does everybody take what I write as personal? If I mention your name then you can take it personal... I read the posts, form an opinion and post it. I don't look at one post and think "Oh I hate that person" and then write my post... a lot of you see my name and automatically hate me</div> It's a facetious statement like this, which pisses people off. You are accusing people of hating you, and then you say don't take things personally. See the hyposcrisy in that? Then you say, how is accidently cursing the same as someone going out of their way to curse, but at the same time you are trying to compare Kobe's rape case, Kidd hitting his wife, and Cliff smoking weed as the same as Shaq cursing on TV. But then again it's a message board and is here for people to express different points of views. If everyone agreed then the NBA would be very boring.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">That's why TNT screws up good movies by putting bleeps and changing words into stuff like "butt" and "dang". It's just something we learn to live with... it's supposed to be for our kids and bible thumpers or something. </div> OMFG are you serious??? I hope this doesn't catch on over here, cause that would suck donkey balls
How often in the past has a player been interviewed on live TV, swore, and swore again to wave off the warning, thus blatantly displaying his negligence for accepted rules? There's talk about how the league should have established the rules for this particular circumstance, or that particular circumstance, before inflicting the punishment...but how do you set the rule if there's no precedence? Judicial courts can establish how the law is construed for a particular type of incident during that case. The precedent is then set for future, similar situations. What about the parties involved in the case in which the precedent was set? They're still subject to the new ruling, even if it hasn't been done before.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ANiMuS:</div><div class="quote_post">How often in the past has a player been interviewed on live TV, swore, and swore again to wave off the warning, thus blatantly displaying his negligence for accepted rules? There's talk about how the league should have established the rules for this particular circumstance, or that particular circumstance, before inflicting the punishment...but how do you set the rule if there's no precedence? Judicial courts can establish how the law is construed for a particular type of incident during that case. The precedent is then set for future, similar situations. What about the parties involved in the case in which the precedent was set? They're still subject to the new ruling, even if it hasn't been done before.</div> Exactly, did the NBA take time to research if this happened before and figure out how they enforced it? I can't believe this is the first time, nor will it be the last time it happens. If there is no precedence don't you think the NBA should invest more than 24 hours to establish a ruling? I've said it two times already, here is the third ... "Knee Jerk" reaction.
Err I don't think you construed my comment the way I intended. I've been arguing for the suspension on this thread.
I'm using your post as the main reason I don't agree with the suspension. There hasn't been enough time and effort spent by the NBA League Office to establish a thorough precedent based on Shaq's actions. This is why I'm pissed about the suspension coming the League, rather than the Laker organization.
A fine only reaches so far (usually nowhere) in a player's mind, especially when that guy makes more money than anyone else in the league. Fine Shaq, and he'll just write the check and forget all about it the next day. Suspend him, and he'll realize he cost his team a game. What happened here could be the precedent for what he did. People have called out refs and Stern before. People have sworn on live TV before. How many times have they done those two, and finished it off with a resounding "I don't give a s***"? At some point, the fines have to stop because they're essentially nothing, and the suspensions begin. It's not so much the league trying assert itself by imposing arbitrary, unjust punishments, so much as simply trying to prevent Shaq from asserting himself as above the league's standards. When a player shatters the rules that players are expected to abide by (calling out the association is breaking the rules, swearing on TV is breaking the rules, swearing to emphasize ignorance is breaking the rules--doing all three at once is shattering them), the ones with highest authority (the NBA itself, not the Laker franchise) have to respond immediately to keep things under control. It is their responsibility to let everyone know that no matter how accomplished and well-known a player is, he is not above the jurisdiction of the organization that he plays for. Sitting idly by and letting Laker management handle it is a public implication that the league won't take responsibility for its players.
Where has ANiMuS been? Man that was good stuff... I've been in agreement with the suspension, but because I'm not a Lakers fan, and I've got a bad rep on here already, it seems I'm automatically wrong (although in previous arguments, I've been right ) -- glad to see a Laker fan come on here, and give my arguement some much needed backing. Jay Mariotti, Mike Wilbon, and Tony Kornheiser all agreed it was wrong and the punishment was fair, and why did they say it was wrong? Because it was on LIVE TV after he had been warned, he still went about and said "I don't give a ****" the exact words I've been stressing on for days!! I was about to use metaphors, but you guys will just get pissed off again. So I'll let it be.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">Where has ANiMuS been? Man that was good stuff... I've been in agreement with the suspension, but because I'm not a Lakers fan, and I've got a bad rep on here already, it seems I'm automatically wrong (although in previous arguments, I've been right ) -- glad to see a Laker fan come on here, and give my arguement some much needed backing. Jay Mariotti, Mike Wilbon, and Tony Kornheiser all agreed it was wrong and the punishment was fair, and why did they say it was wrong? Because it was on LIVE TV after he had been warned, he still went about and said "I don't give a ****" the exact words I've been stressing on for days!! I was about to use metaphors, but you guys will just get pissed off again. So I'll let it be.</div> I said it was a good suspension as soon as it happened.
