Joe Johnson, the newest fad or the newest trend. Can he keep these numbers up and can he be the most improved player in the nba? Yah it may be kind of a long shot when you have so many to chose from, especially with Zach Randolph out there. But take a look at joe johnson latley 22.6 points, 5.4 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 1.4 steals, while shooting 49.2 percent from the field. Those are some great stats if you ask me, or anyone with an IQ above 10. Im asking you can Joe Johnson be the most improved player this year or is that for Zachery Randolph? Award or not though, Joe Johnson is quickly turning into one of the better players in the league.
Doubt you can go past Randolph, even though everyone not living under a rock knew what the kid was capable of. Joe's been super though, the next challenge for him is to keep this play up over an extended period of time. He's always shown glimpses of what he can do.
No..he isnt even the most improved at his position...Michael Redd, and plus then he still hasnt improved as much as Randolph, Boozer, Redd, and AK47 have.
I would say that JJ should be a shoe-in for MIP, except for the fact that his improvement hasn't translated to wins for his team. Some other guys like AK-47 and Michael Redd have helped their team as a whole, not just their stats. If the Suns can make a significant run after the All-Star break, even if they don't make the playoffs, JJ could win the award.
Well I look at stats when I talk about anything, I live in the box scores and do think stats are credible in most cases. Athletes and coaches (mainly those w/o good stats) would disagree... but anyway, here are the MIP mentioned above, and the +/- (for the stats I think matter) from last season to this season... Joe Johnson +11.1 MPG, <font color="Green">+.036 </font> FG%, +1.4 RPG, +1.3 APG, +6.2 PPG Michael Redd +9.3 MPG, <font color="Red">-.027 </font> FG%, +0.6 RPG, +0.8 APG, +6.8 PPG Zach Randolph +22.3 MPG, <font color="Red">-.031</font> FG%, +6.6 RPG, +1.8 APG, +13.1 PPG Andrei Kirilenko +9.5 MPG, <font color="Red">-.022</font> FG%, +2.6 RPG, +1.6 APG, +4.3 PPG Carlos Boozer +9.1 MPG, <font color="Red">-.015 </font> FG%, +3.7 RPG, +1 APG, +4.7 PPG Although Joe Johnson is the ONLY one to increase his FG%, obviously Randolph has got the better increases across the board. I do think Joe is 2nd when it comes to Most Improved Player, compared to Redd he's got a better +/- in all these catigories 'cept scoring (which Redd beats him by 0.6). TODAY I'd have to vote Randolph, but by the end of the season I think Johnson will have made enough of a case, that he'd HAVE to be strongly concidered. Michael Redd has been good, he could have been MIP the last 2 seasons!! His numbers get better and better all the time... so his numbers were high last year, which don't give him the best +/- I think Suns fans are focusing in on the JJ we've seen SINCE the Marbury trade, so I'll take those numbers and then compare... Joe Johnson 42.1 MPG, 159-320 (.497), 5.5 RPG, 5.1 APG, 22.8 PPG Joe Johnson +14.6 MPG, +.100 FG%, +2.3 RPG, +2.5 APG, +13 PPG So since the Marbury trade you'll see his numbers compare favorably to Randolph's (+/- numbers that is), so if he can keep his game going at this rate or even better, his season numbers will improve, putting him into the MIP race with Randolph. Quick note : JJ has 7 straight 20+ point games... which is 2nd in the NBA behind McGrady. He has scored 20 or more in 14 out of his last 16 games. I just think with the Suns losing and the fact we're NEVER in the NBA spotlight, people don't realize how well JJ is doing.
I love Joe Johnson's game. Of course he's never going to get the kind of run that he might if he was on a better team, or somewhere in the northeast where the bias is ridiculous, but west coast basketball fans see what he's doing. I'm a huge stat freak too, so I take into account the numbers first, then compare them to the team performance. At this point, it would be very difficult to go against Randolph. But as the numbers show: Randolph is recieving more than twice the mpg this year, of course a player given an extra 22+ minutes is going to improve his stats greatly. (assuming he's a decent player to start with) If Joe gets his average up to 18-19 ppg, 5 reb., 5 ast., he would have to get very serious consideration.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting OgShowtime:</div><div class="quote_post">Randolph is recieving more than twice the mpg this year, of course a player given an extra 22+ minutes is going to improve his stats greatly. (assuming he's a decent player to start with) If Joe gets his average up to 18-19 ppg, 5 reb., 5 ast., he would have to get very serious consideration.</div> Yeah with minutes come stats... but I think minutes ARE a stat. You get minutes because you contribute. So I think Randolphs minutes HELP him, while other are going to see it HURT him. A player getting 30 MPG with 15 PPG is better than a 15 MPG/15 PPG player I say... why is that point a minute man not getting minutes? Obviously the coach doesn't want him in the game... whereas the 30 minute player contribute defensively, passes, and whatnot. This argument is kind of backless because what if the 30 minute guy was on a bad team, and he was their only decent center or something, so it depends on circumstances... but my point still stands, minutes are earned, therefore it should be seen as a beneficially stat instead of "Oh this guy scores the same amount of points in LESS minutes" -- getting a low amount of minutes tells me their coach doesn't want them out there.
Sure, you have guys that play 15-20 mpg and score 12-15 points. Basically specialists. What I'm saying is that a player like Randolph who was recieving few minutes, yet still producing, would very likely improve his all-around numbers significantly. I'm agreeing with you, his extra minutes do help him. Joe was already receiving more minutes before the trade, but the absence of Marbury has been the biggest contributing factor to his improvement.
Yep, I agree with that. I just thought before you were making a case for JJ saying Randolph gets more minutes (as if that was a bad thing)... but yeah I see. The problem is going to be HOW the voters are going to see this award. From last year to this year it's Randolph hands down... but from last year to the last 17 games, it's Joe Johnson. So I wonder if voters are going to dismiss JJ's first 2+ months. It'll all depend on how they both finish the season, I have to assume JJ finishes just as hot as he is now... so his final numbers are going to be even better. But Randolph's minutes, rebounds and points are WAY up... 22 minutes, nearly 7 rebounds and 13 points per game more than last year, that's insane!!
Although Joe's stats have been great since the trade, the numbers are still not as good as Randolph's whole season average. Like you said minutes matter, in the last 17 games like you said Joe is getting 42 minutes a game whereas Randolph is getting 39 on the season. Yeah, it's only a 3 minute difference, but even in that span Joe is only averaging about 1.4ppg more. They won't dismiss the first half of the season for Joe, it actually benefits Randolph more because he's done it consistently throughout the season. For example in December Zach averaged almost 25PPG and 12boards in 41mpg on 15 games. Those are better numbers than Joe's last 17. I'm not trying to discredit what Joe's doing here because its great but even his recent numbers are not as good as Zach's season averages. Points aren't everything, and Zach has also been getting 11 boards this season. I hope Joe can get his averages up to about 18 or 19 like you said, but I think its the overall season that counts. Both teams have been very underachieving teams this year, but Zach has also helped his team win more.
Joe Johnson has had a few good games since the trade but to say he is MIP, you are very mistaken my friend here are the people he would finish behind Zach Randoph Michael Redd Flip Murray Carlos Boozer Baron Davis Q. Richardson
I agree with what most of what Phreeze said, and a lot of it I've already covered... I think Randolph would win it today, and I also don't think JJ can increase his numbers enough overall to overtake Randolph (unless Zach's numbers fall), but I think he'll get enough numbers to have to be concidered. CANT STOP ME, I disagree with some of his choices, I've already proven JJ has improved more than Michael Redd and Carlos Boozer. Now I'll compare the +/- of those other players and see where JJ stacks up... Flip Murray +22.2 MPG, +.052 FG%, +0.9 RPG, +1.5 APG, +11.8 PPG Baron Davis +3.2 MPG, -.030 FG%, +0.5 RPG, +1.5 APG, +6.2 PPG Q. Richardson +12.6 MPG, +.033 FG%, +1.3 RPG, +1.1 APG, +8.6 PPG ----------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Johnson (Season) +11.1 MPG, +.036 FG%, +1.4 RPG, +1.3 APG, +6.2 PPG Joe Johnson (Last 17 Games) +14.6 MPG, +.100 FG%, +2.3 RPG, +2.5 APG, +13 PPG I guess Flip Murray and Q.Rich would be rated over JJ in MIP at this moment concidering JJ's first 2+ months of the season... but JJ's numbers are going to increase as he gets these stats with more games. The best stat I see if that JJ has increased his FG% (from last year) by an entire point since the trade... that's like a baseball player hitting .233 one season and batting .333 the next, it's a huge jump, and very encouraging seeing how he's supposed to be "inconsistant". In any case if Randolph keeps it up, like I've said he's going to win.
Joe Johnsons last 17 games have been great but when you are looking at a overal season 17 games is about 1/4 of the season and at this point in time you need to look at the 2/4 of the season that has been played
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CANT STOP ME:</div><div class="quote_post">Joe Johnsons last 17 games have been great but when you are looking at a overal season 17 games is about 1/4 of the season and at this point in time you need to look at the 2/4 of the season that has been played</div> I have been comparing his season totals to their season totals, Joe Johnson's season increases are as followed... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Joe Johnson (Season) +11.1 MPG, +.036 FG%, +1.4 RPG, +1.3 APG, +6.2 PPG</div> Better than Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer, and Baron Davis... at least the +/- from last season overall is. The reason I add in the Last 17 games is because JJ from here on out will continue at that level (at least Phoenix thinks he will) therefore his numbers will increase, it'll be somewhere in between his season totals and last 17 game totals.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CANT STOP ME:</div><div class="quote_post">Joe Johnson has had a few good games since the trade but to say he is MIP, you are very mistaken my friend here are the people he would finish behind Zach Randoph Michael Redd Flip Murray Carlos Boozer Baron Davis Q. Richardson</div> I definitely agree right now all of those except Murray are better canidates for MIP than Joe. Q's "stat difference" is still bigger than Joe's, and Q's stats have actually made huge impacts on winning games. When he plays huge for them they usually win, but even with Joe playing so great right now the Suns still aren't winning enough.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Phreeze:</div><div class="quote_post">I definitely agree right now all of those except Murray are better canidates for MIP than Joe. Q's "stat difference" is still bigger than Joe's, and Q's stats have actually made huge impacts on winning games. When he plays huge for them they usually win, but even with Joe playing so great right now the Suns still aren't winning enough.</div> Seattle, Cleveland, LA Clippers, and Portland ALL have losing records as well... I don't think winning factors into MIP, it's not MVP. These are the winners of the last few years... 2000-01 - Tracy McGrady, Orlando 2001-02 - Jermaine O'Neal, Indiana 2002-03 - Gilbert Arenas, Golden State Orlando and Indiana had near .500 records while Golden State was obviously not good. So I don't like the whole "team's not winning" argument for MIP. It wasn't Gilbert Arenas' fault Golden State was losing, in fact they won the amount of games they did because of him, and this year Portland and Phoenix are winning the few games they are because of Randolph and JJ... Again the numbers do the talking, JJ wouldn't win right now, but he's in the running. And yes THINKING and DOING are 2 different things, but seeing as JJ is DOING, I don't know what you're talking about.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">Seattle, Cleveland, LA Clippers, and Portland ALL have losing records as well... I don't think winning factors into MIP, it's not MVP. These are the winners of the last few years... 2000-01 - Tracy McGrady, Orlando 2001-02 - Jermaine O'Neal, Indiana 2002-03 - Gilbert Arenas, Golden State Orlando and Indiana had near .500 records while Golden State was obviously not good. So I don't like the whole "team's not winning" argument for MIP. It wasn't Gilbert Arenas' fault Golden State was losing, in fact they won the amount of games they did because of him, and this year Portland and Phoenix are winning the few games they are because of Randolph and JJ... Again the numbers do the talking, JJ wouldn't win right now, but he's in the running. And yes THINKING and DOING are 2 different things, but seeing as JJ is DOING, I don't know what you're talking about.</div> I'm not trying to say just because their teams are winning they deserve it, I'm saying when they play great not only do they put up big numbers but they come out with a win. One player obviously can't make a team win alone, atleast in most cases anyway. T-Mac is great but the Magic still can't win, so that's really not what I'm trying to point out. Obviously it only helps if your team wins and they're overachieving, but if a player makes as much difference in games as a guy like Q does, it has to credit him. Whenever he has a big game, it's not a coinsidence that they come up with a win. On a Clipper game I remember them showing stats of Q in their wins and losses, and his stats for a win were big. If a player can make that much impact on games, it has to mean something for the awards.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CANT STOP ME:</div><div class="quote_post">Dang you must really want JJ to win mip but he just wont get it</div> Dude I know reading is hard and probably gives you headaches, but if you read what I've been saying... RANDOLPH is going to be MIP. Show me where I said JJ is going to be MIP and show me where I said "I want JJ to be MIP" -- take a few minutes to read, it will cut down on these misinformed stupid posts you've been making. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">TODAY I'd have to vote Randolph</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">Randolph's minutes, rebounds and points are WAY up... 22 minutes, nearly 7 rebounds and 13 points per game more than last year, that's insane!!</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">In any case if Randolph keeps it up, like I've said he's going to win.</div> All I keep saying is JJ is in the running, better than most of the so-called improved players you are all posting, my stats show JJ has improved MORE than most of those players, of course RANDOLPH's numbers have improved MORE than JJ's therefore he will win. Then you said JJ won't continue doing good, saying "thinking and doing aren't the same" -- so I said it wasn't the same, but JJ is STILL keeping his numbers up, so what do you know? Anyway arguing with somebody like you doesn't get me anywhere, you can't read, and have dilusions about the NBA, so I'll let it go, the rest of us have good posts that proved JJ was in the running but Randolph is going to win.
