<div class="quote_poster">Quoting lunetik4raps:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey buddy, dont single all raptors fans that come to this forum like that. You'll find an extremely biased poster in just about every team thread.</div> You'll find a lot more in the Toronto forum than anywhere however (except maybe the Magic).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Crossover:</div><div class="quote_post">He was voted in because he's such a superb dunker. That's really the only reason he got so many.</div> why doesnt j-rich get voted in?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thefranchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">Thank you, finally a Raptor fan I can agree with on this board. How can someone complain that much when a player much less talented than anyone on the floor should get playing time late in the game. I have no idea what Raptor games you've been watching but Vince Carter is not clutch, or certainly not as clutch as you say he is. I agree with Carlisle's decision, Vince had his time to shine, which was in the first half when everyone was doing the same (dunking). Later in the game it started to get serious and there weren't as many flashy plays. Carlisle went with 2 quicker guards; Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson (along with Tmac), and went with two other players who played well defensively that game; Ron Artest and Jamaal Magloire. As for power forward that position was being split with Jermaine Oneal and Kenyon Martin. That would leave no space on the floor for Vince, all those players play better defensively, and with more intensity. As allnet said there were too many others that needed playing time, and it just happened to be players that are better than Vince. The rest of you Raptor fans just need to grow up and accept the reasons why Vince wasn't playing, leading vote getter or not.</div> how many raptors games did u watch?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Nasty:</div><div class="quote_post">I heard it all now.....Jesus.....I guarantee ya put 'em against each other 10 times that Ron come out with more points each time,since thats what ya'll covet is points. Ron would lock his ass down hard. Ron IS a better all-around player than Vince Carter.</div> VC is the most unselfish superstar u can find, he makes his teamates better, artest can't create open shots for his teammates like VC does.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Doesn't defense mean anything to kids anymore?</div> artest is a better D player, but VC is a better O player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jack:</div><div class="quote_post">artest is a better D player, but VC is a better O player.</div> Ok look, Offense wins the game, how you gonna get defense when u got Shaq, Yao, Duncan, Garnett on the floor going against you? The only way to win is offense there. It would be pretty dumb to put defense up on something like that when Offense is clearly the only option. and look East lost, see?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jack:</div><div class="quote_post">VC is the most unselfish superstar u can find, he makes his teamates better, artest can't create open shots for his teammates like VC does.</div> well ok,he may be unselfish but he couldn't guard a trash can. I know ya'll cats think Vince has made 'amazing defensive strides'(as i saw someone say)and I know some ya'll say they been other guys that just score in League so leave Vince alone but ya'll make it hard with your outlandish claims and downright false allegations. It's all well and good cuz I don't have a problem with Vince..I like the cat and flat loved him at Carolina,but my problem is with a the afore mentioned vast majority of Rap's fans that I encounter. To hear ya'll talk Vince could take on 'Nique,Jordan and Big O by himself and dispose of 'em in a hurry(I know to the layman this may seem extreme,but some of these Vince fans take it that far). Vince is a good NBA player but he's nothing like he was in his heyday and thats what ya'll need to realize..until then you'll still be considered unknowledgeable fans by most peeps.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thefranchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">Hes certainly close to what Vince is: Vince Carter: 21.2ppg 4.7rpg 4.8apg 1.1spg 3.06tpg 41.2% FG Ron Artest: 18.1ppg 5.3rpg 3.0apg 2.06spg 2.67tpg 42.3% FG Look at those stats, Artest isn't far off from Vince, and hes only the second option on his team. Artest is also a much better defender ranking #3 in steals and steals per game. I'm a raptor fan too, I'm not bashing Vince but I'm teaching other Raptor fans that you have to realize that Vince isn't as amazing as you say he is, everyone has to get it through their head, stop treating him like hes the best player in the league.</div> ur rite artest is only the second option on his team, and that's y he doesn't get double or triple team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">Offer a GM Vince or Artest. From an on-court POV, they will take Ron Ron EVERY single time. You can guarantee that.</div> VC is a franshise player, not artest.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Phreeze:</div><div class="quote_post">Stats don't show how many times Artest has shut down players, or how great of a job he did on people defensively. Ron is the best guard defender in the league, that means nothing to you? Artest > Carter in my book also.</div> i agree that artest is a greater defender, but VC is one of a few players that can take over a ball game for u, that means nth to u?
You know I'm really surprised at the moderators for not mentioning once that Carlisle coaches both O'Neil and Artest. Isn't that biased enough in leaving Artest in the game. Did the East win in the end? No. Was McGrady chosen to hit the three to win the game? Yes (Has he been hitting game winners in the regular season? No). Excellent decisions Carlisle. We all know the only reason Indiana is doing so well is because Isiah had handpicked each individual player himself. Carlisle got lucky with the players that he has to work with. Carter got shafted and everybody knows it. Why don't you just fess up to it. Give Carter a break. Not playing Carter for the majority of the 3rd period and all of the fourth is some vindictive stuff. Don't use stats on each player to make Carlisle look good. The fans wanted to see Vince play. Vince rose to the occasion scoring highest for the East with the minutes he got. Give him his dues with the minutes for the rest of the game. The way Vince was going, he would've scored around mid 30's that night. That's low man, real low
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jack:</div><div class="quote_post">i agree that artest is a greater defender, but VC is one of a few players that can take over a ball game for u, that means nth to u?</div> Artest can take over a game without touchin' the ball playa....
Defensively that is.... But what is defensive? Artest can only guard 1 guy at a time... all the need to do is dish the ball quickly to beat artest... like some1 said earlier U got like KG/Shaq/TD on the floor u get one of those guys to post up on Artest i don't think he could stop them. Sure Artest could shut down 1 player in a game but is defense Everything in basketball?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jack:</div><div class="quote_post">VC is a franshise player, not artest.</div> Do you consider Ben Wallace a franchise player? You probably do. I do as well, however he is more a team player. The question is, what exactly is a franchise, the answer is a team. I take Steve Kerr's kind words of Ben Wallace. A big guy, a nice guy, a talented workhorse, however he isn't an mvp, he's a team player. You know Jack it takes more then offense to win a game. Everyone knows that, the defense that both Wallace and Artest provide are what brings in wins. They play to win. Vince too does this, however he is a franchise player, as is Artest. Just on a more teamed rather then individual scale regardless of how unselfish VC is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">You'll find a lot more in the Toronto forum than anywhere however (except maybe the Magic).</div> We have a lot more biased posters than anyother because raptor fans outnumber anyother team on this site. Or so it seems. I just joined a few days ago so I could be wrong.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jack:</div><div class="quote_post">why doesnt j-rich get voted in?</div> Because Vince has all of Canada to vote for him, went to a big time college, and is a big time dunker that wins over kids. There is a reason only Raptor fans post in this forum, garbage that has been posted like this is sad to read. As a Cavalier fan ask me who I would like more next to LeBron, Carter or Artest....Ron, every single time, every matchup, any moment. I could list 25 players that I would take over Vince, maybe more, don't get me started. Sad, just sad.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jack:</div><div class="quote_post">VC is the most unselfish superstar u can find, he makes his teamates better, artest can't create open shots for his teammates like VC does.</div> You know, you have a point there. From what I've seen, VC seems to be better at drawing attention then dishing it out to an open teammate for an assist. I can't argue that. But when you compare two players like VC and Artest, then you gotta wonder who would win in a one-on-one game. And my answer to that would be Artest. Offensively they are about equal. They both can take it strong to the hoop and they both have good jump shots. IMO, Carter can finish underneath the basket a little better but Ron can post up on Vince. However, Defensive is the deciding factor here. Artest is quick and has a wider body so it's hard for players to just blow right by him. VC lacks lateral quickness and lacks size. Artest is a better defender hands down. All you ppl who are saying VC is better than Artest obviously haven't seen our last game against Indiana. Artest just man-handled Vince to the point where it wasn't funny anymore. Everyone watching could see how frustrated VC got because he couldn't score. Carter did have his moments on a couple of occassions where he blew right by Artest, but overall, Ron had his way both offensively and defensively. C'mon drop this whole Vince versus Ron thing already because it's over. You can still be a Carter fan without thinking he's the best player around.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RipHamFan:</div><div class="quote_post">C'mon drop this whole Vince versus Ron thing already because it's over. You can still be a Carter fan without thinking he's the best player around.</div> Best quote of the thread.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">You'll find a lot more in the Toronto forum than anywhere however (except maybe the Magic).</div> Aight, well I'm new so I didn't know but sad to hear since my favourite team is the raps aside from the sixers and nets. They must make our team look bad ~_~
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">Because Vince has all of Canada to vote for him, went to a big time college, and is a big time dunker that wins over kids.</div> Yah, I always thought the reason why Carter gets the most votes every year is because he has all of Canada to vote for him. And since more Canadians have internet access per capita than any other country in the world, then it would be obvious that Carter would get the most votes. It seems like no one else touches on that aspect. But then again, that would mean Steve Nash and Jamaal Magloire would get a lot of votes as well.
