<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's open season on the NBA's younger players with many former stars and veterans taking shots at their less experienced counterparts ? who are not hesitant to respond right back. "This is the worst basketball being played since I can remember, and it's not because I'm an old guy," says TNT studio analyst Charles Barkley, one of the NBA's 50 greatest players. "Is it because it's a generation gap, or is it because they aren't doing it right? The game is suffering. They don't know how to play." Barkley is not alone on that count. "Now we are a teaching league and development league instead of a polished league," Memphis President Jerry West says, "and it's not a good thing."</div> http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/...ool-cover_x.htm Interesting article... comments? thoughts?
Well they are 100% accurate. Todays game pales in comparison to the basketball being played in the 80's and early 90's. Then it was a true team game fueled by fundamental play and accented by athleticism. Now its a one-on-one game based on athleticism and sometimes accented by fundamentals. After the last 'work stoppage' the game has suffered ten-fold and it hasn't recovered yet. The low scores aren't caused by great defense but by teams that fundamentally suck. It's a sad sight to see.
Dre, pretty much said it all.but Its easy to see the difference in play as well as teams. You think about the teams from Charles' era like the Lakers,Celtics,Pistons, etc those teams had their superstars but the thing that made them so good was they had quality role players, so they didnt have to stand around playing one-one basketball all day. Those teams had a numerous amount of options that were just good basketball players. Nowadays most teams have just one or maybe two guys who can really get the job done, so that one guy takes like 30 shoots a game & it hurts the overall team play. If you look at the east, one of the reasons why they are so bad is most of the East teams only have one or 2 good players on each team. If you compare that to the west, its kind of crazy. Teams like Minny, the Kings, Memphis, Dallas are so deep & they have good players at numerous positions. So they play excellent team ball & win. I think alot of people get confused because in the late 90's early 2000's teams like the Bulls & Lakers were dominating with one or two really great players, and a bunch of ok role players. So every team started using that aspect to try & succeed. And that has hurt the team play & overall play of the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dre:</div><div class="quote_post">Well they are 100% accurate. Todays game pales in comparison to the basketball being played in the 80's and early 90's. Then it was a true team game fueled by fundamental play and accented by athleticism. Now its a one-on-one game based on athleticism and sometimes accented by fundamentals. After the last 'work stoppage' the game has suffered ten-fold and it hasn't recovered yet. The low scores aren't caused by great defense but by teams that fundamentally suck. It's a sad sight to see.</div> I agree with you 100%..Im quite fed up with people making excuses for these guys.There is no doubt in my mind that these guys are just in it for the $$$...Now dont get me wrong..There are a lot of players who have worked their butts off..And are still working earning the money..But the game today..I hate to say it..I dont like it...Now im only 16..I didnt see a LOT of the old time basketball...Because i was not around but...I have tons of videos of great games..etc..And i can tell you..That basketball is better quality and just plain better than today....Now you may call me boring but this is why i have SOOO much respect for guys like Tim Duncan..Fundementally sound..And he is a winner...But if you saw me in real life..You would be quiet amazed..You have a 6'3 point guard whohas a 32" Inch Vertical leap who loves to dunk..And make the crowd go wow..BUT..BUT..BUT..I have good fundementals and the correct..HARD woking attitude to go far...Back to the topic....I really...really am HONESTLY..And TRUTHFULLY quite upset at how the league has gone downhill...So many people keep making the excuses like..."The defense has gotten better"..."Players face harder competition"..Etc..It is complete RUBBISH...The only reason the game is going downhill..Is because the media has hyped things up for one....Everyone wants to make the highlight reel for southwest highfligher of the week etc..(Oh Thankyou your "Airness")..And two because players are more intrested in what the media thinks about them..What they look like in interviews etc...How much money they make..Even though they DO NOT deserve it...AT ALL...(Shaq *Cough* Shaq)...And because they are straight up lazy..They dont want to work for their things..Magic did so much for the league..Just like all the other greats..(Bar M.J in MY opinon...)..And look at how its turning out..And personally i believe it will only get worse!...Just my 2 cents!
These days zone defense kills about 80% of the teams in the league; all they really need in order to break a zone and not bitch about it (e.g. T-Mac) is to learn some freakin fundamentals.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ANiMuS:</div><div class="quote_post">These days zone defense kills about 80% of the teams in the league; all they really need in order to break a zone and not bitch about it (e.g. T-Mac) is to learn some freakin fundamentals.</div> Yeah and I believe it was McGrady himself who said he didn't like zone because 'I didn't learn this in high school.' That's one of the disadvantages of opting NBA rather than college. Players miss out on the basic fundamentals that established the game of basketball. The players would rather practice their dunks and 3 point shots. Tim Duncan is the only player who still plays the game like it was taught. People may think he's boring, but he can sure get the job done.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice Breaker:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah and I believe it was McGrady himself who said he didn't like zone because 'I didn't learn this in high school.' That's one of the disadvantages of opting NBA rather than college. Players miss out on the basic fundamentals that established the game of basketball. The players would rather practice their dunks and 3 point shots. Tim Duncan is the only player who still plays the game like it was taught. People may think he's boring, but he can sure get the job done.</div> I agree with you.They young players right now don't know any fundamentals.They are all about flashy moves and dunks.That's why today the NBA doesn't have as much players over 50% and even 60% field goal percentage.Back in the older days,it was normal to have a lot of players shooting 50%.They are missing good shooters. I agree with the thing with Tim Duncan.He knows the fundamentals of Basketball.Maybe thats why he is called "The Big Fundamental".
Definatlety worse now. All games are these days is one pass one-on-one until 8 minutes left in the game..... and if its within 10 points, the teams begin to play REAL ball. Great quote from Jerry West about it going from a polished league to a development league. I for one prefer to watch College because the guys go out and give there all, AND ACTUALLY PASS THE BALL AROUND!!!!! ~Nick~
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Timmy-MVP-21:</div><div class="quote_post">Magic did so much for the league..Just like all the other greats..(Bar M.J in MY opinon...)</div> How the hell did MJ not do much for the league? He basically revived the popularity of the league singlehandedly in the 90's, and is a LARGE part of why the game is so globalized today. The only way he could have hurted it is by his flashy play and the way young players try to emulate him, but they have to realize that he would have gotten nowhere if he didn't have the solid fundamentals.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice Breaker:</div><div class="quote_post"> Tim Duncan is the only player who still plays the game like it was taught. People may think he's boring, but he can sure get the job done.</div> Now now, Tim Duncan isn't the only player, look at Yao, Allan Hoston, Peja, Payton, Cassell etc. I agree that the players have less fundamentals these days, but you can't put that tag on every young player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with you.They young players right now don't know any fundamentals.They are all about flashy moves and dunks.That's why today the NBA doesn't have as much players over 50% and even 60% field goal percentage.Back in the older days,it was normal to have a lot of players shooting 50%.</div> Another reason for this is that we don't have the David Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing etc, and all those other good centers/inside players anymore. All thats left is Shaq, Duncan, Yao, Brand, Garnett. Duncan isn't even shooting over 50% this season. Mark Blount and Nene are also ripping the high percentages. One of the main things though is that not many teams have a go to inside guy, so even if their inside guy shoots are high percentage, he's still doesn't affect the team % much because he's only taking about 8-12 shots a game. Another player I would say has some good fundamentals is Kobe, as much as many might hate him. But players fundamentals are also overlooked by many people, really what do you look for in a guard when you're considering their fundamentals. How many times he does a jab step or a pump fake in a game? Also how many of us here are under 23, would you say you're part of the problem or that you have good fundamentals. As much as some might think they do or that they work hard, an older guy can still look down and say its just not compared to back in his day. Would you say Bob Cousy had good fundamentals? Maybe, but he shot less than 39% his whole career. Elgin Baylor only had a career % of only 43%, Bob Petit was a center and shot 43% also, Maravich 44%, Rick Barry 44.9%, George Mikan another center, 40.4%, they weren't perfect either. But I know what they are trying to portray is that nowadays their aren't any guards that shoot about 47-50% which is in the likes of Jordan, BigO, Gervin, Jerry West, Larry Bird. But its not like its really that bad, look at Andre Miller, Dwyane Wade, Bibby, Maggette or Kobe, Tmac, Ray Allen and Carter in their good years. Even RJ, wheter he's doing it off mostly dunks or not, is the ball going in the net? and is he getting his team points? Also how do they know how they would've performed at the professional level against zones, as little as it might seem you never know how it would've affected their games.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobeonfire:</div><div class="quote_post">How the hell did MJ not do much for the league? He basically revived the popularity of the league singlehandedly in the 90's, and is a LARGE part of why the game is so globalized today. The only way he could have hurted it is by his flashy play and the way young players try to emulate him, but they have to realize that he would have gotten nowhere if he didn't have the solid fundamentals.</div> Thankyou for proving my point!
The difference is definitely in the depth of players. As Henacy pointed out, the roleplayers were of a much higher standard. How many Mark Madsens do you see on NBA rosters these days? There was at least 2 or 3 on every team back in the day, guys willing to anything for their team as long as it delivered the W. Nowdays, in this "teaching and development league" as Jerry West pointed out, the benches are full of the guys who had potential, development projects that didn't quite pan out. However, I think we'll see an upswing in the standard of play in the coming years. Guys like Dwyane Wade, Kirk Hinrich, Josh Howard et al have definitely given the college junior/senior a much better rap, given their performances this season. They've cast the mirage of upside aside, and shown that the college game develops their game at a far greater level than sitting on the bench for 2 or 3 years "developing". As you can see this year, Emeka Okafor is going to be the consensus #1 pick (barring Atlanta getting the top pick)... In recent years there would have been questions over his upside, whether his game would convert to the NBA etc. etc. Of course, this remains to be seen, but I think the benefit of the doubt is in his favour. Further, guys like Luol Deng and Charlie Villenueva, are going to stick with their quality college programs, and develop into the players they should be professionally, as opposed to enhancing their cheerleading abilities in the L.
Yeah it's definitely unfortunate that most teams now have 2-3 players on their roster reserved for young European bigmen who get about 4 minutes of garbage time, and KG-clones who don't have neither the work ethic nor heart. Years ago teams filled those spots with the defensive stoppers, shooting specialists, hustle players, etc.
There are only a few teams that play the zone effectively in the NBA so i don't think thats a real problem. I do see that there is a lack of passing in todays game. I watched one of the NBA classic games and the ball was being moved swiftly and it at least hit 3 players in one half court set. Zoom to today and there are a lot more one on one plays where people are just standing around doing jack.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">There are only a few teams that play the zone effectively in the NBA so i don't think thats a real problem. I do see that there is a lack of passing in todays game. I watched one of the NBA classic games and the ball was being moved swiftly and it at least hit 3 players in one half court set. Zoom to today and there are a lot more one on one plays where people are just standing around doing jack.</div> Yea i agree...The ball movment a long time ago was very swift and smooth..It was would be pass..Pass...Pass..Pass.Pass..Bucket..Why dont players just do that today?..Why do they hog the ball and dont do anything else like set screens and keep moving..And move the ball fast..?..I mean it would make so much more sense..I am 16 and am a player/Assistant coach for a club team i play for...And i am always showing them that passing is best..Each player on my team i think averages about 4 assists per game..Apart from me about 7-8 per game..We use the princeton style of ball...And other teams cant keep up with the fast breaking..Fast passing..Fast moving style..And it also helps our defense...We forget we are tired and just played hard on D because we know that if we all run we may end up with two points at the end of the play....I can create my on shots..But a lot of other guys not so talented get their points from running fast breaks..And me being a PASS first magic style point guard will get them the ball just when they want it..I dont get why these players dont just do that?
I actually think Barkley just tells the truth....as painful as it is....I appreciate his honesty because he says things that people don't want to say.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Timmy-MVP-21:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea i agree...The ball movment a long time ago was very swift and smooth..It was would be pass..Pass...Pass..Pass.Pass..Bucket..Why dont players just do that today?..Why do they hog the ball and dont do anything else like set screens and keep moving..And move the ball fast..?..I mean it would make so much more sense..I am 16 and am a player/Assistant coach for a club team i play for...And i am always showing them that passing is best..Each player on my team i think averages about 4 assists per game..Apart from me about 7-8 per game..We use the princeton style of ball...And other teams cant keep up with the fast breaking..Fast passing..Fast moving style..And it also helps our defense...We forget we are tired and just played hard on D because we know that if we all run we may end up with two points at the end of the play....I can create my on shots..But a lot of other guys not so talented get their points from running fast breaks..And me being a PASS first magic style point guard will get them the ball just when they want it..I dont get why these players dont just do that?</div> Its not that some players want to hog, its that they have too. Their coaches want them too, and their supporting cast doesn't help their case. Look at Toronto, Kevin Oneill said in the beginning of the season, that they would go through Carter and he would be the one getting the ball. Even if they didn't want to imaging Carter, Palacio (Alvin was not doing well then at all), Curry, Jerome Williams and Antonio Davis, if Toronto is swinging the ball around and passing, nonr of those guys but Carter can make a jump shot. I;m not even going to say consistently make one b/c Curry, Palacio and Jerome can't shoot jumpers at all, and Davis is okay but not impressive, and Alvin was dead then , he had no legs. No every team in the league has the shooting talent that Dallas, Sacremento, Seattle etc have so not every one can do that. You can't just bring it down to the players, the coaches need to take charge and if they want te team to pass then the team better be passing of their will be consequences.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Barkley is a hater plain and simple. I used to like him when he played but I can stand him on TNT.</div> Man, he tells it like it is and i give him props for that. Hardly anyone in the public eye will say anything that would make someone mad, which is almost anything that the media and people want to hear. So a lot of celebrities don't say anything. The league is weakER in fundamentals than the 80s-early 90s. Some players have good fundamentals, others are just horrible. AI shoots 39%, i know he has to do a lot, but come on. It's not like the other people on his team aren't open. They're open all the time.
Man guys....I been watchin time through high school, wake forest, now spurs..... The best of the best.....Untouchable...Friendly....-My Boi Timdawg
