Man, there is a really big chance that we're not making it to the playoffs. Yet we're not in such a bad situation that we cannot make it. The teams that are keeping us in this race are also losing as well. The East sucks period, but realistically, do you feel that if we had Lenny that we would at least be able to compete with the players that we currently have? Do you think KO is the crappiest coach out there (the guy doesn't even care to stand-up for his team)?, What defence (if you're taking so long to make a shot, obviously the scoring will be lower on the opposing team)? What is there about Michael Curry that's so great (I see no defense, or offense from this guy, as far as I'm concerned, if you have no stats, don't play)? Glen Grunwald got too flustered before and after the trade that sent AD and JYD to Chicago, and is it his fault about not making a move by the trade deadline? This has been too much of a good season in the beginning to throw it all away, but who do you feel is the main reason why we are losing?
I think everyone has a little part in the losing, but one thing that hurts us a lot it is how stubborn KO is. Have you realized that whenver we get new players we are able to scoe well and run the ball and creat, but as soon as KO insert's his plays and offensive schemes, the Raptors suddenly start to suck and can't score. GG is also pretty stupid, he's a good salary cap managing guy, but not a good GM, KO is a good assistant coach, but not a good head coach, Vince is good when he's just that very good player on the wing, but not a good guy at being a supestar.
I had a feeling someone would come up with a thread like this soon. To everyone who has been criticizing KO, obviously you didn't watch our last game against the Hornets. In the game Jack Armstrong (filling in for Leo Rautins) makes a superb speech that was directed towards haters of K.O. And Jack Armstrong doesn?t just stick up for anyone on the Raptor organization. He criticizes Vince Carter all the time for the past few seasons (he even went so far as to say he?d trade the guy) so you know he?s not going to hold out on any punches. Anyways, he basically said that people who bash K.O. and think that he can?t cut it as a head coach really don?t have a true understanding for the game. This is his first year as a head coach so obviously he is going to make mistakes here and there. He?s already paid his dues coaching in college and being an assistant coach for the one of the best (if not THE best) head coaches in the NBA. So you know right off the bat that he knows what it takes to win in this league. At the start of the season, nba analysts never expected much from the Raptors. It would have been a stretch to say they would even make it to the playoffs this year. But KO turned the Raptors into a pretty tough team to beat and only now have we fallen out of a playoff spot. You also have to keep in mind the huge trade and the many injuries the team has to deal with so that just made his job even harder. How much also do you expect from a coach who has to deal with a team with the smallest front court in the nba, that?s lacking a true pg and a center, and has a really weak bench? KO also has the qualities that are perfect for being a head coach. He?s tough. Whenever someone doesn?t follow his rules (i.e. Moiso and Murray), he benches the guy for a week or so. He?s also determined and a major workaholic. He said in an interview that he hasn?t gotten more than 8 hours of sleep ever since he got the job. I?ve said this all before in other threads but I guess I haven?t got my point across. When a team is struggling the first person they?ll blame is the coach. I can guarantee you that had GG given KO a true center and a true point guard to work with, we wouldn?t be in the position we are right now and fans will be giving KO the credit he deserves. It?s all too easy to blame the coach when times are tough so cut the guy some slack. ^ Wow, I never realized how much I wrote. I have way too much time on my hands. ---------- No need to double post mate, it's tacky - KJ
I would blame KO as well. U think Lenny would do worst if we still had him? I highly doubt that, we do have Carter back in the lineup and we still lose. Armstrong's opinion is merely his opinion, for all you know, he hangs out with KO sometimes and has influence in that way. Of course everyone is gonna appreciate KO, they picked him, and so we are losing, you cant blame Vince at all. Cuz if it werent for him, we wouldnt even have ever been in the playoffs. You get rid of him, u get rid of scoring at all. Do you see what the Raps can do without carter? absolutely nothing. It is obviously apparent KO has no offensive sets, they fool around with the ball alot. KO has defense but no offense. Offense wins the game
And in regards to Michael Curry and GG: Michael Curry has one role and one role only, that is to defend. The past two games against Indiana and Cleveland should be enough proof of his effectiveness on this team. He shutdown both Artest and Lebron when he had to guard them so there's absolutely no reason to blame Curry for anything. I admit GG hasn't been perfect but don't criticize the guy for not making a deal before the draft. This has already been discussed in other threads before, playing it safe was the best way to go at the deadline. There was a very good chance that making trade would have only hurt us in the long run.
First of all, the saying goes, ?Offense gets the glory but DEFENSE wins the game.? Secondly, no one has yet to blame Carter in this thread. Lastly, KO preaches to his players to attack the bucket and run without the ball on offense. You just don?t see the players following his rules so how can you blame the guy? You also have to understand that he?s making adjustments and is experimenting with his offense. Having new guards on the team (Strickland and Glover) will seriously limit the amount of offense plays they can execute. He also has to find other ways to run the offense when our main point guard at the time, Palacio, is very inconsistent and inexperienced.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">I would blame KO as well. U think Lenny would do worst if we still had him? I highly doubt that, we do have Carter back in the lineup and we still lose. Armstrong's opinion is merely his opinion, for all you know, he hangs out with KO sometimes and has influence in that way. Of course everyone is gonna appreciate KO, they picked him, and so we are losing, you cant blame Vince at all. Cuz if it werent for him, we wouldnt even have ever been in the playoffs. You get rid of him, u get rid of scoring at all. Do you see what the Raps can do without carter? absolutely nothing. It is obviously apparent KO has no offensive sets, they fool around with the ball alot. KO has defense but no offense. Offense wins the game</div> First of all, the saying goes, ?Offense gets the glory but DEFENSE wins the game.? Secondly, I'm pretty sure I didn't put the blame on Carter. Lastly, KO preaches to his players to attack the bucket and run without the ball on offense. You just don?t see the players following his rules so how can you blame the guy? You also have to understand that he?s making adjustments and is experimenting with his offense. Having new guards on the team (Strickland and Glover) will seriously limit the amount of offensive plays they can execute. He also has to find other ways to run the offense when our main point guard at the time, Palacio, is very inconsistent and inexperienced.
You know RipHamFan, my thread was about who to blame, not who not to blame. I wanted to see who we really should blame in regards to the Raps misfortunes at this point. You don't want to blame KO or Michael Curry, the two most people that I want to blame, including GG for not making a move come trade deadline. A team is not a successful team without a true vocal leader. These two obviously aren't it, and with KO he needs to be less hardnosed with more of a winner attitude, something that I haven't heard him preach in a loooooooooong time. Remember when the Raps were in 6 spot, the only thing I heard KO talk about was how it was going to be tough to get into the playoffs when we were already there. Well, KO's depression talk lead to the demise of his team. No spirit, no set offense, no winning attitude for his team or his players, no playoffs. We need someone that is a spiritual leader, not a realist who makes his players feel less important and start playing like or lower than their abilities. He's already given up, that's the kind of coach that he is, and you can see it in the teams playing.
you got it man <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I think everyone has a little part in the losing, but one thing that hurts us a lot it is how stubborn KO is. Have you realized that whenver we get new players we are able to scoe well and run the ball and creat, but as soon as KO insert's his plays and offensive schemes, the Raptors suddenly start to suck and can't score. GG is also pretty stupid, he's a good salary cap managing guy, but not a good GM, KO is a good assistant coach, but not a good head coach, Vince is good when he's just that very good player on the wing, but not a good guy at being a supestar.</div> og15 is so on. You're right man, KO has no offense. We don't have plays only defensive stops. To RipHamFan, Offense is always the way to go. Take it from Don Nelson and Rick Carlisle who outscore you to a loss.
hollagr8, have you ever considered to think that no one?s to blame for our struggles? Any time a team starts losing, it?s automatic for people to start pointing the finger at someone. In many cases there is no one to blame. I wouldn?t put the blame on certain people. I would just blame our situation. It has been an issue that plagued us since the beginning of the season. We have the weakest front court in the nba and we lack a true point guard (with the exception of the newly acquired Strickland). That?s been our problem since the beginning and nothing has changed. We get exposed in the paint and on the boards almost every single game we play. For me, that?s the only main thing to blame. The only one I could understand people blaming would be GG for putting together a mediocre team to start the season.
Noone should blame noone ina team, its a TEAMS fault, not a persons. Thats what a team is about. First we gotta keep together and think of solving problems TOGETHER, BLAMING wouldnt help. First we got new people, new guards so it needs time for adjustment, before Alvin and Rose got back, we were on the rise actually, but afterwards, the drop ... so no I wouldnt blame KO that way. Everybody hast heir part in us losing. ..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "me":</div><div class="quote_post">I think everyone has a little part in the losing, but one thing that hurts us a lot it is how stubborn KO is.</div> I think Grunwald could still have put together a better team, I mean look at when the Hawks were ridding everyone, all it took for NY to get Nazr Mohammed was Micheal Doleac. Like I said, everyone is to blame in the losing, but KO still annoys me with how stubborn he is sometimes, their isn't too good player-coach and coach-GM relations on the team and it seems like people don't talke in Raptorland.
Like it was said in this thread, this is a team game and not one person is responsible for their shortcomings. It's easy to find someone to blame for all of the losing but sometimes you have to stand back and realize that this team is not ready to be in the playoffs. It's everyones fault in a way.
It's funny how CourtVision would have 'Impossible' as such a negative word in the dictionary of fools, but when you look at KO, he doesn't believe in this team by the way how he said it was going to be a struggle every single game down the stretch for the Raptors. Which is not a very motivating thing to say. Yes, the cliche says that the first people that normally are to blame are the coaches, but KO like og15 says really annoys me. Don't say we are doing okay, cuz we're not, they have to really have one of those meetings were the players get together and talk. KO should motivate, we don't accept the fact that he is a rookie head coach, that's no excuse, get in players faces, referees faces anything. Stop standing around drinking diet coke saying that this team will struggle and be realistic, we want a coach that makes it's players feel that they can overachieve, not someone that looks like he doesn't care. Fans should really look at this guy more carefully. We don't want excuses, we want wins. Find a way man. Understanding about a game can only lead to certain things. People need to overachieve and KO has not allowed anyone to do so. Oh yeah, what defence is this that I'm hearing about? In addition, KO wants to give us the kind of mentality that whatever he has is not good enough. C'mon man. When we had AD and JYD he said that we didn't have enough offense, when we have Rose and Marshall we didn't have enough big men. Stop complaining and do your job. Everything is always hard and tough for him. Every team has weaknesses but KO has to talk about theirs 24-7. Well, look now KO we're close to not making the playoffs you happy now. Everthing that you have said has manifested itself. You guys like to hold on to a sinking ship eh. He blames everything on what we don't have. How about what we have? On paper we look good, how about bringing that mentality to an actual game, motivate, not be a downer. We have problems fans it's all KO's fault.
Haha, you guys killin me here. Who do we blame??? What the hell? you can?t choose one guy as a a scapegoat, it?s eveyrone?s fault. We need Vince to step up and put up points on the board. We need strong all-around performance from every single player on the team, starters, bench players, w/e, period. This is ridiculous? who do we blame??
I know who to blame.... The Fans. For always expecting too much from this team, like some have been quoted saying that Vince is better than MJ. Pathetic.
Who the hell said that in this thread? I think those comparisons stopped a few years ago. Isn't Lebron being compared to Magic Johnson right now? Blame the fans? Thats rich. Too bad the Raps are 6th in the league in attendance and are one of the more profitable teams in the NBA because of the pathetic fans you speak of. Which fan doesn't expect too much out of their favourite team? Would a fan expect the worse out of their team? Of course they want to be optimistic about their chances but its not pathetic to expect their team to be better than they are. Just you putting that down in this thread pathetic in itself. It just shows the respect you have for Raptors fans in general.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Just you putting that down in this thread pathetic in itself. It just shows the respect you have for Raptors fans in general.</div> Cute, why don't you just relax, you know you had this coming right? <font size="1">(Payback is a ***** after all, ain't it?)</font> I don't have to do anything, this forum has already been labeled before I got here. All I am doing is stating the "facts" as you like to use. Couple years ago not, those things were quotes from fans this season, come on bro, catch up.
Stating what facts? That the fans are responsible for the Raptors losing? Thats a pretty idiotic thing to say in the first place. Good fact. This forum has its quality posters and its just people like you and other moderators around that label this forum in the first place. Why don't you do something about it, rather than complain and moan.
