<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rudeezy:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree that Kidd deserved it two years ago, but TD deserved it last year. KG was derserving as well but it came down to respect, the respect you get after winning a championship, or getting out of the first round for that matter. </div> Dude, can you explain me what do you mean with "getting out of the first round for that matter"? Last season KG deserved it as well as TD. But TD had the better team record (60-22 and the Wolves only 51-31).
Well it honestly does not matter who is the MVP of what conference. Only matters who is the MVP of the league lol . Jermaine will get about 4 votes for MVP when the results are posted. Last year they announced the MVP before the finals I believe so nobody knew the Spurs were going to win it all. It does come to respect but what KG did with the Timberwolves last season and the numbers he put up, it was only MVP numbers. Tim Duncan I think is now falling into the category with Shaq with being selected MVP. The two can be picked every year because of how much they are needed for their team but the league is not going to allow for them to continue being picked every year. Why? I dont know.
One thing I think they took into consideration is that the MVP is typically presented in the second round of the playoffs (Game 1 I believe). It might have been weird for them to select KG as MVP and then not be able to present it to him with his team already eliminated. That being said, I don't agree with the "KG got robbed" theory.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">My god shapecity, you have really been p*ssin me off lately. You have zero basketball IQ. Stats mean nothing when it comes to MVP. Allen Iverson has never been a stats player, sure he can score, but he never has good percentages, assists, or rebs, and he has lots of turnovers, and he is a former MVP winner. MVP means the most valuable to their team. PERIOD. Throw the stats out the window, cause if Indy didn't have JO this year, they wouldn't be where they are. I don't know why you get so much respect on this site, you have shown over and over again, that you don't know squat about ball. HIT THE SHOWERS.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">My god shapecity, you have really been p*ssin me off lately.</div> Two words for you -- Anger Management <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">You have zero basketball IQ.</div> Put your money where your mouth is. Name the terms and venue and I will surely outshine you. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">Stats mean nothing when it comes to MVP.</div> How enlightening, did I ever say the MVP award was based on stats alone? NO. I was strictly drawing comparisons based on their stats. People like to knock KG for being surrounded by a strong supporting cast, but I was pointing out that argument is a double edged sword. Despite his stronger supporting cast, he still has better stats than JO. And yes stats are a variable in determining the MVP. Here's another stat you can complain about, efficiency ratings, KG stands head and shoulders above all the players in the league in efficiency. http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_regu...rsEFFQuery.html <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">MVP means the most valuable to their team. PERIOD.</div> Pacers are 4-0 without JO this year. Of course 4 games is not a fair measurement of an NBA season, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and say the Pacers wouldn't do squat without JO. They would still make the playoffs without him because they have one of the deepest teams in the NBA, and they play in the East. Most importantly, MVP does not mean MVP of a team, it means MVP of the league. Based on your method of thinking, wouldn't teams with only one star win it every year, the AI's, T-Macs, and your precious VC? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post"> don't know why you get so much respect on this site, you have shown over and over again, that you don't know squat about ball.</div> Care to offer some examples? Some advice for you free of charge, respect is earned, something you have yet to realize. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">HIT THE SHOWERS.</div> Take your own advice, you are the one stinking up the joint with your UN-intelligent posting. You have done nothing, but bash other people's posts instead of justifying why JO should be MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ANiMuS:</div><div class="quote_post">One thing I think they took into consideration is that the MVP is typically presented in the second round of the playoffs (Game 1 I believe). It might have been weird for them to select KG as MVP and then not be able to present it to him with his team already eliminated.</div> Oh yes, but what about that they vote for the MVP before the playoffs even start? They actually vote for the MVP and the other regular season awards before the playoffs but they announce the results during the playoffs. Does that mean if KG get voted for the MVP but is not making the second round he won't receive it and the runner up who gets into the second round will receive the MVP for the regular season instead (it's not the MVP for the regular season plus the playoffs except the finals)? Sorry but that just sounds incorrect. The MVP is voted before the playoffs and it shouldn't matter if this person is making the second round with his team or not.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Originally Posted by norespect You have zero basketball IQ. </div> Ok there Napoleon. norespect is right. None that is, except for your own opinion apparently. Do yourself a favor: Don't think that taking on the owner of the site will get you respect. Your post is assinine and lacks creditability for someone who claims to be so basketball knowledgable. Taking on the crown doesn't earn you a rep, it earns you a quick trip to the showers when you come to the reality that you don't have the juice to win. Posts like that are a dime a dozen. Step up to the challenge that shapecity threw out or pipe down. No one wants to hear from the peanut gallery.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post"> Take your own advice, you are the one stinking up the joint with your UN-intelligent posting. You have done nothing, but bash other people's posts instead of justifying why JO should be MVP.</div> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....I find it quite funny that other people come out of the woodworks to defend you. Nothing but brown nosers......anyways i do have a rebuttal. While averaging 20 points, 10 rebounds a game may mean nothing to you, it sure means alot to a first place team that averages 90 points and 40 boards a game. Lets see, he also ranks 5th in block with over 2.5 per game. These are meaningless stats if you ask me, but everyone on this site seems to live and die by stats. To get off topic, i mean someone put Lebron james as the best PG and Melo as the best SF in the league. Anyways, bottom line is that JO makes his teammates better. He draws the double teams, he's crashin the boards, and he's bangin with the big bodies in the paint. Now, of course KG does that as well, but his cast has proven themselves elsewhere. Sammy and Spree have shown that they are proven performers for many years in the leauge. But JO gives Artest the room he needs to operate. And while Artest is also a good player, i wouldn't say hes a fail safe like sammy and spree. Plus, if you are gonna argue that the pacers have a very deep team, what about the wolves. Wally and Troy Hudson are pretty good, plus you got Hoiberg.....and Olawakandi and Trent that can bang too. You have a nice mix of scorers, bangers, and role players. I personally think that Minny is one of the most stacked teams in the West. I just have more respect for a player and organization that has done their business through trades and the draft. KG couldn't hack it in the playoffs for like 3 years, so they went out and bought him a chance to make it to the second round. Plus, MVP has to be measured according to teams as well, they are the most valuable player on a team bozo. How else can you measure a players value................STATS? I THOUGHT SO
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....I find it quite funny that other people come out of the woodworks to defend you.</div> Up until that last post, you made that pretty easy to come out in his defense. You took shots without adding any substance. Regardless, JO won't win the MVP, so you can save your best stuff for another arguement. He'll be lucky to finish 3rd in voting. He plays in a weak conference, which comprises the majority of his teams schedule and that, above everything else, will be the determining factor. Speaking of Bahhahahahahahahah... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> KG couldn't hack it in the playoffs for like 3 years, so they went out and bought him a chance to make it to the second round.</div> Mama says, Stupid is as stupid says. EVERY TEAM in the NBA does the same thing, when presented with the opportunity. It's the job of every GM in the league to do exactly that. What exactly is your point? Oh yeah, you have none......Thought so. BTW: I don't need to brown nose anyone and the admins here know that. I made my comments out of respect, because thus far, the content I've read from shapecity has been more than up to par. You presented an arguement like a punk and got dealt with like one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post"> BTW: I don't need to brown nose anyone and the admins here know that. I made my comments out of respect, because thus far, the content I've read from shapecity has been more than up to par. You presented an arguement like a punk and got dealt with like one.</div> Don't come up with original comments to make, just regurjatate(bad speller) others. Get your head out of Shapecitys ass. He's the one going to all my posts and trying to prove me wrong. I have a personal feud with him, and i didn't ask for your dumbass opinion. I called him out, he hit me back, so i'm defending myself. What have you spoken intelligentlly of? NOTHIN.....
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's the one going to all my posts and trying to prove me wrong.</div> It's been my experience that posters who make statements like that are ones that can't take someone proving them wrong. The fact that you openly Admit that theres a "beef" only solidifiies that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i didn't ask for your dumbass opinion.</div> If you posted it on an open forum, then you did. You want to address shapecity directly, then take it to PM's. Otherwise, take your medicine like a good little boy. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What have you spoken intelligentlly of? NOTHIN.....</div> No offense meant to shapecity, but he's already way out of your league. How in gods name do you think you could handle me? Do yourself a favor: Respond to and treat people with respect and you'll get it in return. Other wise, get out of the deep end of the pool, because thus far, you've only proven you're over your head and sinking quickly.
These are by far some of the worst arguements I have ever seen. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">While averaging 20 points, 10 rebounds a game may mean nothing to you, it sure means alot to a first place team that averages 90 points and 40 boards a game. </div> Wolves 1st in West. East vs West. Do the math. Then compare records. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways, bottom line is that JO makes his teammates better. He draws the double teams, he's crashin the boards, and he's bangin with the big bodies in the paint. </div> Uhh... I know your not big on stats but you are basically spellin out the stats without actually saying it. Considering Garnett isnt exactly the thickest (although tall) guy banging down in the low blocks. But you really have no stance to say that Garnett isnt the best rebounder in the game... Oh and making teammates better... how about how many doubles Garnett draws, oh and what a great passer he is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now, of course KG does that as well, but his cast has proven themselves elsewhere. Sammy and Spree have shown that they are proven performers for many years in the leauge. </div> Sammy is having a career year... he even plays a little D (not a whole lot but more than before) because of Garnetts leadership. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But JO gives Artest the room he needs to operate. </div> You are naming something any big man (Garnett, Webber, Duncan, Oneal, Brand, Randolph, Rahim, Wallace ect ect) in the L would do. Post players do that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Plus, if you are gonna argue that the pacers have a very deep team, what about the wolves. Wally and Troy Hudson are pretty good, plus you got Hoiberg.....and Olawakandi and Trent that can bang too. </div> Ever heard of injuries? Check how many games Wally, Troy and Olowokandi have played. Then after that check how much these guys average... you are basising them on their names, and not actual production. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I personally think that Minny is one of the most stacked teams in the West. </div> Hmm... maybe thats why they are 1st in the west? Oh and didnt like 90% of this team just meet up this year? And they gelled so good that they are a #1 seed in the toughest conference (another bump for Garnett) in the L. Wouldnt that be a notation of good leadership? Just a thought. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I just have more respect for a player and organization that has done their business through trades and the draft. KG couldn't hack it in the playoffs for like 3 years, so they went out and bought him a chance to make it to the second round. </div> Youre right... they should make it harder for KG to win a playoff series. Instead of adding Cassell and Sprewell we should have shipped off some of the better players. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Plus, MVP has to be measured according to teams as well, they are the most valuable player on a team bozo.</div> We have come full circle. Review arguement numero uno.
I can't believe this has gone on for three pages! Phssh! JO is a great player, but hardly an MVP. I agree with Hagrid that he'd be lucky to be in the top 3 in voting. All these arguments against KG leading his team are moot if you're arguing for JO, who has also never lead his team out of the first round(the Portland stuff doesn't count since he averaged approximately 30 seconds of playing time per series). KG is tops among all power forwards in scoring, rebounding and assists, and has strong numbers in blocks and steals, and has his team in 1st place in the league's strongest conference closing in on the end of the season. Even TD, who I've supported each of the past two years, doesn't have much of an argument when stacked against TD. So I don't want to hear anymore of these weak arguments for borderline superstars when it comes to MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting starman85:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't believe this has gone on for three pages! Phssh! JO is a great player, but hardly an MVP. I agree with Hagrid that he'd be lucky to be in the top 3 in voting. All these arguments against KG leading his team are moot if you're arguing for JO, who has also never lead his team out of the first round(the Portland stuff doesn't count since he averaged approximately 30 seconds of playing time per series). KG is tops among all power forwards in scoring, rebounding and assists, and has strong numbers in blocks and steals, and has his team in 1st place in the league's strongest conference closing in on the end of the season. Even TD, who I've supported each of the past two years, doesn't have much of an argument when stacked against TD. So I don't want to hear anymore of these weak arguments for borderline superstars when it comes to MVP.</div> JO is a borderline superstar?? no one can say for sure that the pacers wouldnt do well in the west. their record against western conference teams is outstanding. its easy to say "in the west, they'd hardly do as well" but its impossible to know. bottom line is...he is the leader of the team with the best record..he deservs some recognition, a lot more then just being "lucky to be in the top 3". he deservs to be runner up, for sure. admitidly, i jumped the gun, and i agree that KG deservs it...but JO has had a phenomenal team, with less of a cast then peja, duncan or kobe
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">JO is a borderline superstar?? no one can say for sure that the pacers wouldnt do well in the west. their record against western conference teams is outstanding. its easy to say "in the west, they'd hardly do as well" but its impossible to know. bottom line is...he is the leader of the team with the best record..he deservs some recognition, a lot more then just being "lucky to be in the top 3". he deservs to be runner up, for sure. admitidly, i jumped the gun, and i agree that KG deservs it...but JO has had a phenomenal team, with less of a cast then peja, duncan or kobe</div> I never said JO didn't deserve recognition, or that he wasn't a candidate, just that he's hardly in the same category as Duncan and KG. And I know JO is a superstar, but borderline when it comes to putting him with KG and Duncan, who are head and shoulders above all other forwards.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coranor:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh yes, but what about that they vote for the MVP before the playoffs even start? They actually vote for the MVP and the other regular season awards before the playoffs but they announce the results during the playoffs. Does that mean if KG get voted for the MVP but is not making the second round he won't receive it and the runner up who gets into the second round will receive the MVP for the regular season instead (it's not the MVP for the regular season plus the playoffs except the finals)? Sorry but that just sounds incorrect. The MVP is voted before the playoffs and it shouldn't matter if this person is making the second round with his team or not.</div> First of all, they already knew the T-Wolves drew the Lakers in the first round. It wasn't a shot in the dark for the voters. The total votes for each player were also listed in the MVP announcement, so you can rest assured that they didn't go in and alter them once they saw that Minnesota had lost. Besides, don't blow this out of proportion: I am not arguing that the fact that they could not beat LA was the sole reason KG didn't win (read the last line in my post that you didn't quote).
One things that doesn't impress me is that JO is shooting 43% from the field as a PF. What's he trying to do, become Antonio Davis. Yea JO has started trying to show us he has range, but we don't need to see it, get back in the paint and shoot 48%. KG and Webber (who led th league in mid range jumpers last year), have always been taking those 18 footers, yet they can keep their percentages up. His low% scoring this year is being covered up by the fact that their team is real good but in the playoffs he better get down low and stop showing us his new and improved range. JO deserves his recognition but to say he's done more than KG is pitiful, common unless you hate KG with a passion you'll know he's done a lot for the team.
I was one of the originals that believe that J. O'Neal is a MVP candidate. I would've personally placed him ahead of Duncan until the Spurs turned into Fire Marshall Bill (Lemme show ya somethin) and went on that win streak. With the difference in the caliber of East vs West teams, I have to side with Timmy......for #2. I love Jermaine, but if he put in the kinda work he's doing now, with the Blazers, he'd have more of an argument. Just like Dampier was saying, if he were in the East, he'd be like Shaq part 2.
JO's got numbers that make him worthy. He's got team success that makes him worthy. Problem is, he's just not going to win the award. I'm not saying it to rile people or to demean JO's effort, it's just reality. Playing in the East is the single biggest detractor of him getting major consideration. The majoity of his schedule is made up of games against the eastern conference. If there's anyone here who thinks that the East isn't by far the weaker of the 2 conferences right now, then I'll shut up. However, JO would have had to put up #'s far better than anyone else, based soley on that premise. KG and Duncan also constitute players who's teams have a legit shot in the eyes of voters to win a Championship. Sure, that shouldn't play a role in thier thinking, but it does and we all know it does.
