I'm not a big Chandler fan, but I'd probably rather have him than some of the young euro big men that are coming into the draft. Today's espn Insider said that it was likely either Chandler or Curry would be traded and Chandler was the one that was more likely to go since Curry's trade value is at an alltime low right now and they could get more value for him down the road. So the question is what would you give up for Chandler. The Bulls are supposed to be looking for a young veteran sf. Would anyone here be willing to trade Dunleavy for Chandler? I certainly wouldn't, but what about Chandler and the Bulls #1 for Dunleavy and the Warriors #1? Now this would have to be based on the assumtion that Okafor is off the board when the Bulls pick and Deng isn't in the draft, since the Bulls are supposed to covet both of them. As much as I like Dunleavy, I would have to take a loooonnng look at this trade, especially if the Bulls had the #2 pick and expected Okafor to be taken with the first overall pick. If the Warriors could end up with Chandler and a guy like Dwight Howard, or Andris Biedrins (who is supposed to be an Andri Kirilenko clone and the player the Warriors covet the most) they could have one of the most athletic front courts in the NBA. If the Bulls had the #5 or #6 pick, the Warriors could use it on a combo guard like Gordon or Livingston, which would help clear up the sf/sg log jam. Would any of these deals be worth Dunleavy and a #11 pick? I'd say if the Bulls had the #2 pick and were offering Chandler and Howard for Dunleavy and the #11, I think I would take that deal. Howard is the one with the most star potential of all of them, and since the Warriors already have Murphy they wouldn't be forced to throw Howard into the fire before he was ready, which is precisely what I think went wrong with the Bulls development of Chandler and Curry. The only problem with drafting Howard or Biedrins is that there is a potential log jam at pf with Murphy and Robinson already there. However, I think by the time Howard or Biedrins was ready to take on big minutes at pf, Murphy will have gotten strong enough to play center. I dunno, what do you guys think?
Dunleavy has more basketball skills than Chandler. When was the last time Chandler got 20 rebounds? Never. When was the last time he scored 30? Never. I hate when people get caught up in "athleticism" and forget that its a team game.
^^ I think I remember a stretch last year when Chandler played extremely well, he was scoring pretty good and rebounding. I also think that Chandler has had a 20 rebound game. This year I expected Chandler to be a pretty good player, but he got injured and never seemed to get back in the line-up. I think I'd do the trade. Chandler has more upside then Dunleavy IMO. I think at 7 foot he could be a very good defensive player along with Damp and Robinson in the frontcourt.
I think Chandler can be very good, its just that he didn't get a chance this season to improve upon last year. He started off this season playing excellent then he got injured and never got a chance to play. Obviously he doesn't bring a lot of the skills that Dunleavy has, like passing, ballhandling and shooting. But I feel if claxton is healthy Dunleavy's skills will be negated anyways since claxton tends dominate the ball when he's on the court. I think Chandler would be a good fit with Murphy since Murphy likes to play outside more. Chandler can play inside and get the rebounds, putbacks, and dunks off penetration. I think he's valuable becuase of his upside to be eventually become a great player if in the right situation, and his size. The warriors would have a pretty tall frontcourt and that would cause a lot of problems offenseivley for other teams. The only thing I question is his work ethic, I'm not sure if he's the kind of player thats going to work hard in the summer improving his game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">Dunleavy has more basketball skills than Chandler. When was the last time Chandler got 20 rebounds? Never. When was the last time he scored 30? Never. I hate when people get caught up in "athleticism" and forget that its a team game.</div> Okay, first of all, if you notice that I have Dunleavy listed as my favorite player, it shows you how much I value a player like Dunleavy. Secondly, Chandler had a 19 point 22 rebound game on 2/15 against Denver last year, it was two games after he had a 21 point 17 rebound 7 block game aginst Philadelphia. And while he hasn't had a 30 point game yet, he's had a 27 point game (12/31/02) where he also had 19 rebounds. Now I'm not saying Chandler is the second coming of Kevin Garnett, I'm not even saying he's as good as Dunleavy. What I am saying is that if the Bulls had the #2 pick and were willing to trade Dwight Howard and Tyson Chandler to the Warriors for Dunleavy and the #12 pick, I'd have to really think about it. Whether you agree depends on a couple of things: 1) whether you think Pietrus would be ready to take over the starting sf spot, 2) what free agents you think the Warriors were capable of getting, and, most importantly, 3) whether you think Dunleavy, Richardson, and Pietrus will all be happy with the minutes they're getting in two or three years and whether one of them will accept that his role is to come off the bench. Because if you don't think Dunleavy, Pietrus, and Richardson are going to be able to coexist, you're going to have to think about moving one of them. Remember, the quesiton wasn't Dunleavy for Chandler straight up, because no one here would do that. It was would you trade Dunleavy and the #11 for Chandler and Howard. If you said yes, then would you do Chandler and Biedrins for Dunleavy and the #11? If you said yes, would you do Chandler and Livingston for Dunleavy and the #11? If you said yes, would you do Chandler and Gordon for Dunleavy and the #11? If you said no to any of these questions, would you say yes if the Warriors kept the #11? Personally, I think I'd do a deal Howard and Chandler, I'd think about one for Biedrins and Chandler (but that all depends on his individual workout), and I think about doing a deal for Livingston and Chandler for Dunleavy, but not the #11.
I don't think the bulls would do that trade if they had a chance at okafor or Howard, but I think they'd do it for the #5pick possibly. I'd do that trade but thats becuase I'm not that big a Dunleavy fan though. However I wouldn't trade Dunleavy for Chandler straight up though, mainly becuase I'm not sure about his work ethic.
Everything I'm reading says that Chicago will definately take Okafor if he's available and they'd take Deng if he were available, but they'd look to trade the pick if they can't get either one. They don't want Howard because they've already had two failed or semi-failed experiments at drafting high school power forwards, even though Howard is supposed to be better than Chandler and Curry. (I just didn't want to restate that in my last post since they tend to be long enough already...) And I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Warriors fan who would trade Dunleavy for Chandler straight up. I certainly wouldn't.
^^I didn't know they didn't want Howard, thats makes things interesting. But I don't think that chicago would a little bit more though for the number 2 pick and Chandler. If it was any other pick I think that it could be possible. Lets say Chicago gets the 4th pick, who would they pick? I'm not very knowledgable about the draft so I have no idea who would be around at the 4th pick, but out of the players availble and worthy of a 4 pick, would their be anyone chicago would take. I know they they wouldn't want a Pg becuase they got HInrich already. Becuase if their isn't I think that that trade could help both teams
From what I've read, which goes along with what I've personally felt they would do, there are really only two players they would draft: Okafor and Deng if he comes out (who is the clear choice for third best player behind Howard and Okafor). Right now Deng says he'll stay at Duke, but every week that goes by where scouts are saying he'll be the third player taken increases the chances that he'll come out. The only player I can think of who still went back to school after being a consensus top 3 pick is Duncan in '97. In '02, Dunleavy was in exactly the same position as Deng is now. He continually said he would be back at Duke, then in early May when the early entry deadline was approaching, Dunleavy suddenly put his name into the draft. Just like Deng now, Dunleavy was the near unanamous #3 pick. And, if I remember correctly, Coach K said that he advises his players to declare if they are assured of being a top 3 pick, or at least he won't try and convince them to stay. To answer your question of who Chicago would pick if they had the #4, I really don't know. Behind Okafor, Howard, and Deng, the next prospects are Livingston, Biedrins, Josh Smith, and Ben Gordon. Hinrich is their pg and they've probably had their fill of high schoolers, so there's almost no chance of them taking Livingston, even though he's from Illinois. Biedrins looks like a great pf/c prospect, but he won't even be 18 for another week, so I doubt they'll go through that again. Smith is another high school prospect, he does play sf, but he's very rare. Gordon would fit at sg, but #4 is probably too high for him. I guess if they kept the pick they would use it on either Smith or Gordon. But I think the chances of them trading the pick if they couldn't get Okafor or Deng would probably be 80/20 in favor of trading the pick. By the way, if you aren't familiar with it, www.nbadraft.net is a great draft resource, although its gotten a bit worse in the last two years because they're now making you pay for some parts of the site.
Ok, you guys have some pretty long posts and dont feel like reading the whole thing, but if there was an offer for Chandler/Dunleavy straight up, I would do it. I would rather have Curry if Damp leaves, but I think Chandler has potential to be a Garnett type player. Maybe not MVP type player, but versatile.
How about Chandler for Eschmeyer. Yeah that's about the only trade I'll do. I like Dunleavy as the point guard actually. He can post up and shoot right over his opponent and command double teams since he's about 7 inches taller than most guards and he's got long arms.
I think the only way to make this question interesting is to talk about Chandler AND the Bulls draft pick. If the Bulls have the #2 or #3 pick and can't get Okafor or Deng, they're going to move the pick. This is really a two part question: 1. Do you think Dunleavy, Pietrus, and Richardson will all be happy with the amount of minutes they're getting 3 or 4 years down the road and knowing that one of them will have to come off the bench? 2. If not, do you think Dwight Howard will be a better pro than Dunleavy, or at least the pieces will fit together better if Howard is on the team instead of Dunleavy? I'm not talking about basketball IQ here because Dunleavy is better hands down. I'm talking about a problem similar to what Memphis had with Gasol, Gooden, and Swift. There was a log jam and West made the team better by moving a pf in Gooden for a sf in Miller. You could argue that Memphis shipped out more talent (Giricek and Gooden) than they got back (Miller), but you can't say the Griz were worse as a team because of the trade. In fact, they were much better.
1.) if the team is winning, then I think all egos will be put aside. 2.) If the team is not winning, ship out Dunleavy for Howard if that offer ever becomes available. I'd go for Howard in an instant. Scouting reports say he is a good student so I don't question his work ethic or basketball IQ. Plus, I saw him play and I think he's pretty exciting type of player. The downside is we might be trading Dunleavy for a guy that makes team chemistry worse. But then again what if he turns out to be a franchise worthy player that makes everyone better on both ends of the court? And also what about Murphy? That guy's been a fan favorite of many because of his toughness and major improvement last year. Also, I could be wrong about Dunleavy... It's just that since before he was drafted, I've been saying that junior was going to be the biggest bust out of Duke since Danny Ferry and the only remotely possible reason he'd get picked is because of his coach Dad. And bam my worst nightmare came true because we picked him! Doh! I would have gone for a gamble with Qyntel Woods (off the court problems) or Tskitishvilli (yes the guy needs to work out). But I think my selections wouldn't reap their rewards unless you take away more time from Troy Murphy or Jason Richardson. Actually woods could play SF and so could Tskitishvilli because of his versatility. But I guess those two selections would take a lot of time to become ready and the best answer is to get a "true small forward" rather than try to play a shooting guard that has an inconsistent shot or a underweight, 7 foot, 18 year old power forward to try and play SF.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">1.) if the team is winning, then I think all egos will be put aside. 2.) If the team is not winning, ship out Dunleavy for Howard if that offer ever becomes available. I'd go for Howard in an instant. Scouting reports say he is a good student so I don't question his work ethic or basketball IQ. Plus, I saw him play and I think he's pretty exciting type of player. The downside is we might be trading Dunleavy for a guy that makes team chemistry worse. But then again what if he turns out to be a franchise worthy player that makes everyone better on both ends of the court? And also what about Murphy? That guy's been a fan favorite of many because of his toughness and major improvement last year. Also, I could be wrong about Dunleavy... It's just that since before he was drafted, I've been saying that junior was going to be the biggest bust out of Duke since Danny Ferry and the only remotely possible reason he'd get picked is because of his coach Dad. And bam my worst nightmare came true because we picked him! Doh! I would have gone for a gamble with Qyntel Woods (off the court problems) or Tskitishvilli (yes the guy needs to work out). But I think my selections wouldn't reap their rewards unless you take away more time from Troy Murphy or Jason Richardson. Actually woods could play SF and so could Tskitishvilli because of his versatility. But I guess those two selections would take a lot of time to become ready and the best answer is to get a "true small forward" rather than try to play a shooting guard that has an inconsistent shot or a underweight, 7 foot, 18 year old power forward to try and play SF.</div> 1) Fair enough. I guess we'll have to cross our fingers and hope for the best. 2) The problem with waiting is that whoever gets Howard isn't going to trade for him. If the Bulls have the #2 they're definately going to get good offers from teams, and whoever ends up with Howard isn't going to turn around and trade him. In fact, I doubt most teams would do a straight up Howard for Dunleavy trade. If the Bulls got the #2 and were sure they weren't going to get Okafor (which pretty much means the deal wouldn't happen until the Bulls were on the clock), the Warriors would only have a limited window to make a deal for Howard. Before they made any move though, they'd better be pretty sure Murphy could make the transition to center. Because if he can't they'd just be trading one positional log jam for another. By the way, in the '02 draft I was pulling for the Warriors to take Skita. My draft board would have been 1) Skita, 2) Dunleavy, 3) Butler. To this day I still don't understand why people thought the Warriors should have drafted Drew "I'm a carbon copy of Antawn Jamison" Gooden. Speaking of Skita, he may be available once his rookie deal is up. I definately wouldn't mind the Warriors signing him.
Yeah I liked Skita's potential to be one of those great mismatches on offense that can't be stopped, but like Dunleavy Jr, the question of defense comes to mind and then I tend to drift towards picking players who can bring both offense and defense to the table. As for Gooden, the only appeal to me was that he was from Oakland. And everyone from the bay loves a hometown hero. I just wish it could have been a player worthy of Gary Payton or Jason Kidd as the hometown hero and not another tweener SF/PF like Jamison. I guess I was also thinking about which players in the draft would make everyone on their team better and Yao Ming was already picked. So it just left who would be the most dominant scorer. And I thought it would be Qyntel Woods (6'9 shooting guard) or Tskitishvilli, a European 7 footer that was still growing and could be a decent shotblocker like Pau Gasol with the shot of Dirk Nowitzki (and hopefully not the combined defense of those two which is still zero).
I remember when Woods declared for the draft. I was really happy because I knew there were five players (Yao, Williams, Dunleavy, Skita, and Woods) that I would have been satisfied with the Warriors drafting. Even though it was a two horse race, I knew the Warriors would be getting a player even in the worst case scenario of picking 5th.
Hey that's pretty cool that you had your eyes on the same guys I would have picked. Looks like Josh Smith, Livingston, Deng are all committed to their schools. I think Josh Childress is still comitted to Stanford so no luck getting him. I think Childress could be a stud in the NBA and not another Jared Jeffries, who isn't quite the athlete that Josh is. Josh has got the IQ, athleticism, and the 'fro. He's got some really sick dunks with that leaping ability of his, but the problem is he's not aggressive enough. But on the Warriors, I don't think that's a problem because we got Dunleavy (who could've gotten a triple double this year playing point guard) and Richardson who are going to be the primary scoring options. Right now I see Josh as an all around guy with great athleticism that can fill in if we can't get a suitable backup small forward. Anway enough talk about small forwards. Let's talk about what we really need, which is Centers. Which center would make the most impact at age 18 on both ends of the floor? It's a tossup. Either Ha or Kosta. It's hard to make a decision based on the competition the two have faced given their young age. And scouting reports indicate that none of them are really great rebounders or shotblockers, but have the potential to be because of their size. In fact there's a lot of indication that both players are really raw and haven't had the proper coaching that big men need to play in the nba. I don't like the sound of rawness. First and foremost, your centers need to be defensive stalwarts right off that bat with a good understanding of the game. Backdoor cuts and Princeton offense plays need to have a center involved with distributing the ball. Plus, I like to know what I'm getting on defense first and then worry about scoring later (because if you've got size, strength, and positioning, it should come natural with time). And if nobody is sure how they could develop, coaches and trainers could be wasting their time in a weak draft for oversized centers. Then we might as well go for that Brazillian guy Rafael Araujo because of his defense in the low post. I don't like his foul proness or his lack of shotblocking skills. But he is tough on the defensive boards and a pretty good passer. I heard somewhere that Araujo isn't that bright or one to have talks with. Team chemistry is always a factor too. If all else fails. Sign a veteran center and get Jameer Nelson. He's the complete package in a true point guard, except for the small body.
