From ESPN "11. Why is it better for Houston if they get swept by the Lakers?

I don't know if u guys noticed, but Francis was never a PG in college and only in the NBA that he became/wanted to take the PG job. He is no PG and anybody with remote basketball IQ knows that. He's a SG/SF slasher, kobe-esque player w/ turnovers and minus the fadeaway jumpers. His basketball IQ is not very high. I personally would rather have AI than Francis but that doesn't help the situation nor is that the point here. Francis should be traded. A pass first, Derek Fisher type of PG should be brought in. Now I'm not saying we should do Fisher / Francis trade straight up because that's just silly, but you guys get the point.

Mark Jackson is too old, too slow, can't guard a pole to safe his life and should be traded or given the 10th man job.

Mo Taylor is a great 6th man imo even though he's a liability in defense and rebounding. Keep Mo.

We should really develop Nachbar more. I've heard that he's a bigger version of Piatkowski that can dunk on people. Not sure though, but we should definitely keep him and develop him.

I'm really torn up on Mobley. He can be great at times but other times he hogs the ball and pulls a Francis, however, he's still a good shooter and I'd keep him. Same goes for Jim Jackson.

I would also like to see Rockets bring in some nasty players like Oakley. Someone needs to lead Yao on the court to learn to not take shit from nobody, dunk on people, chest thump, do ANYthing to show emotion and get his teammates fired up. I'm sick of seeing him being humble all the time. I mean, I understand that it's not in the Chinese culture to want to be the man, but in this situation, he HAS to. He IS the man and even though Ewing improved his game abit he's not developing Yao into a 7'6 dominating monster that we all know he can be. I'm still going to credit Yao though for the improvements he has made this year. He's been more agressive and that's a B+ improvement in my books. After all, which other second year big man do you know in this league that can somewhat match Shaq up in a game?

Bottom line, Francis needs to go, Yao needs to show more emotion like K-Mart minus his punkness, and for ****'s sake, JVG needs to teach his team to be emotional in games and pick up some technicals. I'm tired of seeing the rockets play like they have no passion for the game.

 

Francis should do an Iverson for another team. But I doubt that he has what it takes to be a small SG in this league. He can be, but not in the same league as Iverson.

This series showed that Houston needs Francis? What, his turnovers?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">

This series showed that Houston needs Francis? What, his turnovers?</div>

Or...maybe...just an idea...they need his 20 ppg, 8 rpg and 8 apg a night...or his ability to break down defenses and create...or his quickness on both ends...and the one factor that the Lakers cant solve, even with Gary Payton...

 

The actual #s were 19ppg, 8.4 rpg most of which were defensive boards that he jacked from yao, cato or any of those guys, 7.6apg and you forgot to mention his godly 4.2 TO. He also didn't average those numbers in the regular season.

Now so f-in what if he averages good stats when he can't help his other teammates get better?? HoustonHoopa, you're completely missing the point here. COMPLETELY. Francis is a good player, no doubt about that, but, for the 143th freakin time, HE IS NOT A PG. He may be an SG, but NOT a PG. Joe Johnson averages 20 5 and 5 as an SG/SF and that's fine. He knows he's not a PG and so he doesn't play PG. Open your eyes and your brain please. If Francis weren't a PG and instead an SG/SF then I can somewhat tolerate it (though not much) but he's our damn PG. I don't know if you know how to play organized basketball, but a PG is a very very big part of an offense. There's a reason why the 76ers still sucks.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">There's a reason why the 76ers still sucks.</div>

They suck now because Allen Iverson was out for 34 games. Three years ago, they got to the Finals with Iverson. Francis will never have the scoring mentality AI has, now that he is actually committed to playing PG. Argue all you want, but we're stuck with Francis as PG, and I don't mean it in a negative way. His play brings us victories. If he goes, who'll step up on nights Yao didn't produce? I blame our series loss on him. We gave him the reins and he rode us into the river.

 

I wasn't talking about this year obviously. Iverson is in the East. Who gives a rat ass about the East 3 years ago? Was there any team remotely good to threaten the West 3 years ago? Shoot, I can get some college kids, form a team, throw Iverson in there and they would've gone to be the Eastern Champs. Woop tee doo.

Trip, Francis is one of my fav players. That is why I am pissed at him, he's not playing the position he should be. He wanted the PG job but obviously not doing a good job at it. Let someone else do it. He'd make a great SG/undersized SF. Like I said before, he makes or break us but think about it for a sec. When Francis does well, does Yao do well? Yes, for the most part. When Francis isn't doing well (aka, missing shots, TOs) does Yao do well? No. Why is that? Because he is NOT getting the damn ball. It's all in Francis' hands. We all know Yao doesn't demand the ball enough and you know what? It's Yao's fault for not demanding the ball. But it's Francis' FAULT for not being an intelligent PG. If your game isn't going, you GIVE Yao the ball w/o Yao having to ask for it. I stand by my statement that Francis is not a smart PG and shouldn't be playing PG for the Rockets.

 

Man, there's no point arguing with you. You simply don't want to admit that Francis as a PG is a cancer to the team.

Yao did a great job against Shaq during the regular season. Francis simply failed to capitalize on this by creating opportunities for Yao (and his other teammates) to score. Malone couldn't keep up with Mo Taylor when he's playing the perimeter, he failed to capitalize on this as well. PG's are supposed to run the whole show, not just a scene for himself. With the talent that they have, they should be playing like the Spurs. Parker is fast too and can hit jumpers after jumpers but you'll almost always see him give the ball to Duncan first. Result, conference semifinals.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">Man, there's no point arguing with you. You simply don't want to admit that Francis as a PG is a cancer to the team. </div>

Are you saying that to me? I simply don't see why you guys would ramble about his PG deficiencies when all he did in the playoffs was propel us to a decent fight. Why weren't you guys here to criticize him when he was playing bad, so why come now when he's actually playing decent? I just don't see the point.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you saying that to me? I simply don't see why you guys would ramble about his PG deficiencies when all he did in the playoffs was propel us to a decent fight. Why weren't you guys here to criticize him when he was playing bad, so why come now when he's actually playing decent? I just don't see the point.</div>

It was actually for HoustonHoopa33. But come on man. He may be playing decent but it can only go that far. Be beaten in the 1st round. The Rockets' future is Yao and you need to build around him, not Franchise.

 

Trip, how are you so confident that he propelled us instead of leading us into demise? I know he did, here is why.

Every single Rockets core players' numbers (with the exception of Jim Jackson, but that was only because he's a big time vet that knows how to deal in this situation) went DOWN in the playoffs. They may not look that big of a dip (after all this is the playoffs) but a good point guard does not let that happen. He doesn't try to get triple double every night while getting Yao 10 and 5.

Screw the stats for now, just follow your heart man. You're a basketball fan, you saw the games, do you really think whenever Francis drive or takes a street-ball style shot you have full confident they're the best decisions to make? Francis drives with his head up in the clouds and when shit hits the fan he coughs the ball out and too often it results in a TO.

In the regular season Francis actually tried to play a JVG style of ball, that's why I don't ride on him as much. But towards the end of the season and playoffs, it's obvious he went back to his old style of streetball. Getting a quadruple double doesn't mean shit if one of the double digit categories is in TO.

 

If you remember, Yao has gotten shots throughout the series. In Game 1 he had more shot attempts than Francis, but he failed to convert on them. Steve took over when the Rockets needed him to, so why are you saying shit about him? Maybe the Cali temperature does wonders to your brains. Look BEYOND the turnovers.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">If you remember, Yao has gotten shots throughout the series. In Game 1 he had more shot attempts than Francis, but he failed to convert on them. Steve took over when the Rockets needed him to, so why are you saying shit about him? Maybe the Cali temperature does wonders to your brains. Look BEYOND the turnovers.</div>

Nah they wont look beyond the turnovers man...cuz thats all they got to use against us ...they fail to acknowledge Steve's quickness, athleticism, scoring ability at a position that is hard to find scorers, ability to breakdown a defense, heart and effort, etc...

and as far as Francis being responsible for making his teammates step up...that is true, TO AN EXTENT...after all, these ARE grown professional athletes out here people, they dont need to be babied...Steve's got the whole media and organization scrutinizing him as it is...

 

I will be the bigger man and not come down to your level by attacking you as a person like you did.

Mr. Trip, I don't know if you read box scores, but the one I have in front of me from nba.com shows Yao Ming had 11 FGA and Francis had 14 FGA. So how did Yao have more shot attempts than Francis? May I also add that while Yao shot 4-11 FG and had 2 TOs, Francis shot 6-14 and 7 TOs to go with it.

In the only game that we won, Steve Francis stepped it up. Oh wait a minute, so did the rest of the damn team. Steve "took over" by having 27 points, 9 boards, 7 assists, and 3 TOs while shooting 7-16 (4-5 from 3pt). Woop tee doo. Mobley had 21,5 and 5. Yao had 18 points, 10 boards and 1 TO while shooting 9-13 from the field. Mo had 16pts shooting 6-10, etc etc. The fact is, our whole team stepped it up, not one particular player "taking over". You cannot win a playoff game vs Lakers with just one person "taking over". That just doesn't happen. Might I also point to the DAMN fact that Francis shot 4-5 beyond the arc? Can we say, MOVE FROM PG TO SG STEVE?

 

HoustonHoopa, I would like to know your definition of a point guard. I really want to hear this. How are you going to rank a point guard's ability if you ignore his turnovers....? Please, enlighten me.

I've never questioned Steve's ability to break down defense or heart. So what's the point of bringing that up? All I ask is that he step away from the PG spot because it is not for him.

Or an easier way, name one PG that you think is good. Oh wait, he has to average 3.7 TO in the regular season, and 4.2 TO in the playoffs. If you're thinking AI (even though he's an SG), here's newsflash: His team didn't go to the playoffs. *cough* 4.35 TO per game *cough*.

 

In the start of Game 1, Yao Ming was our go-to man all through the first Q. He performed overwhelmingly underwhelming. Wow, Steve got 3 more shots, but so what? He made his shots, at least. Box scores don't count as much as averages, and looking at the box score for two single games don't really account for much.

Mr. SupraJames, you're saying that Steve should move to SG and become an Iverson type player, right? Now, if he moves to that position and gets the same number of turnovers, does that mean we will *cough* not make the playoffs? *cough*

Get real. Without Francis at PG, who DO we have? 100 year-old Mark Jackson and 5 foot 0 Mike Wilks?

 

The point I was trying to make is that you are wrong in stating Yao took more shots in Game 1. That is all. Thanks for playing.

Mr. Trip, that's exactly what I don't want Steve to do, to be another AI. I'm actually thinking along the lines of an undersized C-Mag/more athletic Mobley. Whatever it takes to get rid of the damn turnovers.

That is why I hope Rockets get a real legit PG and move Francis either to SG or out of town.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">HoustonHoopa, I would like to know your definition of a point guard. I really want to hear this. How are you going to rank a point guard's ability if you ignore his turnovers....? Please, enlighten me.

I've never questioned Steve's ability to break down defense or heart. So what's the point of bringing that up? All I ask is that he step away from the PG spot because it is not for him.

Or an easier way, name one PG that you think is good. Oh wait, he has to average 3.7 TO in the regular season, and 4.2 TO in the playoffs. If you're thinking AI (even though he's an SG), here's newsflash: His team didn't go to the playoffs. *cough* 4.35 TO per game *cough*.</div>

In case you havent noticed, Francis is a rare talent at PG considering his skills...what other PG has his combination of athletcism, quickness, shooting ability as well as passing and rebounding ability?? The answer is NONE...my traditional answer of a point guard is someone who can lead his team and get his teammates the ball in position to score. HOWEVER, we no longer live in the 80s, where Magic Johnson and John Stockton were the ideal point guard. We now live in an era where we have 6'7" PGs, hybrid players with a combination of talents- Baron Davis, Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, STEVE FRANCIS- point guards who can not only pass, but score and rebound as well...Hell, even JK averages 3-4 TOs a game...Marbury is a noted turnover specialist as well...the issue is that Francis has a unique combination of talents at the position in order to have an advantage at that position night in and night out, which the Rockets, more often than not, do...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">I will be the bigger man and not come down to your level by attacking you as a person like you did.

</div>

and where did i attack you as a person?!?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HoustonHoopa33:</div><div class="quote_post">and where did i attack you as a person?!? </div>

Wasn't talking to you... chill out.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HoustonHoopa33:</div><div class="quote_post">my traditional answer of a point guard is someone who can lead his team and get his teammates the ball in position to score.</div>

The only thing Steve Francis leads his team into is a frenetic streetball style of playing. He gets his teammates the ball in position to score only after he drove in do a couple of twisities in the air, realizes he can't go anywhere, and throw out a desperation pass. More often than not, his teammates bailed him out.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HoustonHoopa33:</div><div class="quote_post">HOWEVER, we no longer live in the 80s, where Magic Johnson and John Stockton were the ideal point guard. We now live in an era where we have 6'7" PGs, hybrid players with a combination of talents- Baron Davis, Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, STEVE FRANCIS- point guards who can not only pass, but score and rebound as well...Hell, even JK averages 3-4 TOs a game...</div>

Uhm, none of those players you listed are 6'7.. Steve Francis is not in the same class as Jason Kidd or Stephon Marbury. Don't kid yourself. They are much better PGs than Francis is or will ever be. Most likely, Jason Kidd will go down as one of the best PGs of our era. Francis will not.

Look, apparently we both won't budge on our opinions, so let's just leave it at that and watch what the Rockets do in the off-season.

-James

PS: Glad to finally have some activities in the Houston forums :mrgreen:

 

yeh its all good...we just have a difference of opinions, no biggie...i respect ur opinion, and u have several valid points, I just happen to think otherwise...bottom line is we just care about our team and have different ways of going about it...we'll see what ends up happening, and im interested to see what others have to say on the topic...