BUT, even with that said, it is the wrong cause, remember, the US army is going into someone else's country and killing people, its not as though America is defending its own country, it is going into someone else's country, and destroying it. It is not like the US army had no choice and the battle was on the US soil. It is just so coincidence that when Bush goes into power, everything becomes about war and making a name for himself in the history books, just like his dad. Bush also wants to send men to mars and build a moon base too, everything to get his name in the books. Similar to vietnam, it was "apparently" terrible for the US where millions of troops died and they act as though THEY were the victims, but Vietnam was not planning to go in and attack the US, they were defending their home country from US attacks, and because the US did not win, they act like the victims when they are the ones who initiated the war against Vietnam. And Vietnam won with grit and no technology. Anyways, its not about this, its about Bball. Tillman is great, a servant for God definitely, i really respect him for that, very selfless, but unfortunately he's one who believes in Bush. That does not change his character, he is great and someone I would look up to. And i dont have much against the US, i luv the US, but I question alot of things they do, and everyone is different, just because the country has someone like Bush, doesnt mean all hte citizens in the US believe in him. the citizens of America are top notch, its just the leader is crappy
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes I commend him for it. He is definitely someone our Lord would be able to count on. Definitely one of the bravest and courageous man of our times</div> I wouldn't exactly go far as to say that. Great, brave and kind, leaving that padded life behind, true. But comparing him to others, some people have nothing and everything, and those things could easily be lost once they die. Anyone who goes is a hero, they try to fight for the freedom's and hopes of others, it's only fair that they be equally recognized. War's always been bad, it's just what comes from it that'll be worthwhile, he is one of the men and women who just so happen to take us along that very way. What happened was cruel, but it was bound to happen, there's so many risks of dying out there. I just hope he didn't suffer in dying, and may he rest in peace. God bless his soul.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 30 standing ver:</div><div class="quote_post">There's no MLB players or WWE wrestler fighting in the war.</div> Actually there are a couple MLB players over there right now, I know there's at least 3 MLB players. Pat Tillman's brother (can't remember his name but I heard it on the news earlier) who is currently in Iraq was actually drafted by the Cleveland Indian's and was playing for the Indians minor league AAA club and was about to be called up to the big leagues but instead enlisted into the army at the same time Pat Tillman, his brother did. On another note, yes the professional athletes of today are for the most part much much much more selfish than the professional athletes of the glory days. Back during WW2, more than 60% of all MLB players actually enlisted and fought in the war, now it's something like .0000001%. To answer the original question of this thread, yes I do believe there would be an NBA player that would do the same thing. However, it would definitely NOT be one of the superstar world famous players, it would most likely be a young kid in his early 20's fresh out of college that was drafted late in the 2nd round and is making the league minimum and has absolutely nothing to lose. Also, PejaKing, you have absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about and you're speaking out of pure ignorance, point in case: you think Pat Tillman was in Iraq and fighting in Iraq, that is completely false, Pat Tillman was never in Iraq, he was fighting in and was killed in Afghanistan and his unit was ambushed while hunting down terrorist cells in the rural mountains of Afghanistan. There are two wars going on right now, a war in Iraq and the war in Afghanstan; they are two completely different operations and are fighting for two completely different causes, people need to remember this. I am opposed to the war in Iraq and I do not agree with it at all, however i'm 100% for the war in Afghanistan, it's a noble war and it's a war that will ensure the safety of this country. PejaKing, my advice to you is to just stay out of this thread. Your comments in this thread have been insensitive and downright disrespectful, the sad thing is you don't even realize it .
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dre:</div><div class="quote_post">Milking this story? How so? In this day and age it's rare to see a story anything close to that. Dude deserves everyones respect. Despite what is said taking the fight to the terrorists was the only way to go. Pat Tillman turned his back on fame and fortune to go to war in an effort to preserve freedom and save lives from future cowardly terrorists actions. Like it or not the US Military has saved countless lives around the world by taking the fight to where the terrorists live and Pat Tillman was a part of that.</div> I'm not questioning his heart at all and I commend him for his courage and selflessness. I also think that the war against terrorism in Afghanistan is justifiable (the war in Iraq is a different story though), but at the end, this still is war and no one comes out a winner. What I meant by milking the story is that I can see the US gov't taking full advantage of a story like this. That picture posted by Peja King reads, "Great sacrifices build great nations.... Pat Tillman, American Hero". Now maybe it's me, but that can be interpreted as an advertisement for the US army. Don't you find it all to weird that a story like this comes about when the US is in need of more troops in the middle east? The gov't will use this story as much as they can in hopes of gaining more and more soldiers. I wouldn't be surprised if americans get shoved with army advertisements, tv movies, etc. within the next few weeks. I apologize if I'm sounding insensitive right now, it's not my intention to do so.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ming-dynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not questioning his heart at all am I commend him for his courage and selflessness. I also think that the war against terrorism in Afghanistan is justifiable (the war in Iraq is a different story though), but at the end, this still is war and no one comes out a winner. What I meant by milking the story is that I can see the US gov't taking full advantage of a story like this. That picture posted by Peja King reads, "Great sacrifices build great nations.... Pat Tillman, American Hero". Now maybe it's me, but that can be interpreted as an advertisement for the US army. Don't you find it all to weird that a story like this comes about when the US is in need of more troops in the middle east? The gov't will use this story as much as they can in hopes of gaining more and more soldiers. I wouldn't be surprised if americans get shoved with army advertisements, tv movies, etc. within the next few weeks. I apologize if I'm sounding insensitive right now, it's not my intention to do so.</div> yes it's just you I think. What is it with people? Can't take ANYTHING at face value. All of it has to have some kind of 'hidden agenda'. Did you ever think that someone made that picture as a tribute to the man,Pat Tillman? Pat Tillman believed in what he was doing and his sacrifice was part of our effort to make a better world. If you can't see that and all you read into it propaganda then so be it. I don't see it that way and neither do millions of other Americans. Not to go all political...BUT say what you want about the war fronts we are currently in,but you cannot deny both of 'em were justifiable. Saddam would have killed thousands and thousands more of his own people. We stopped Hitler,Mousallini<?> and countless other ruthless dictators...this is no different. Regardless of what people think Hussein deserved to be dethroned and anyone who says otherwise is flat wrong.
More than anything, I think Pat Tillman's life should bring attention to EVERYONE who has lost their lives while defending their country. Tillman refused interviews with the media because he thought his enlistment was no more noble than the next guy. His death, while tragic, should remind us that our brothers and sisters are dying for OUR country everyday. R.I.P., Pat Tillman.
I agree with Ming. I could liken the situation to Lebron being milked by the NBA to generate as much dollars as possible. I would not see a reason why this story is not going to go way overboard soon with interviews on Oprah and Dateline. I think America needs a hero with all of this contraversy surrounding the government and Pat Tillman is that guy for now. Question: What if it was Joe Shmoe who was a shoesalesman that got killed. Obviously it would not garner that much attention. The one thing that we should not do in this thread is get "Political". I for one do not agree with war especially this one. Do you fail to mention Vietnam? You can say that the president has benevolent intentions but I think otherwise. I won't post my views on this because it would just spark a heated debate not needed in a basketball message board.
Everyone in this thread needs to realize that Pat Tillman was not fighting in Iraq, he was fighting in Afghanistan which is a completely different war that the U.S. is involved in. His ranger unit was ambushed while hunting down terrorist cells in the mountains of Afghanistan, he was not fighting in Iraq. Whether you're for or against the war in Iraq is totally irrelevant to Pat Tillman and this entire situation, the war against terrorism in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq are two totally different operations and it's beyond me why people fail to realize this. There are many people with split decisions, some people agree and others disagree with the war in Iraq, however everyone agrees with the war in Afghanistan and if you don't there is something seriously wrong with you.
^^Both wars I do not agree with. In terms of Afghanistan: Do you think that this country is the only one with a dictator?? America did not declare war on this country until after it was attacked. They were bombing them before but they went all out after 911 hit. What's happening with North Korea? There are a lot more countries that America needs to deal with then if they want to declare war on all countries oppressing their citizens. That is a lot of war mongering going on.
Good since we're getting all political here, in reality America starts many of these wars and act as though they are the victims, this Iraq war is Bush's idea, you can say all you want about sacrificing for country but remember, the enemy is not on the american soil, people are going out of their way to fly down there set up troops and kill with collateral on the village ppl. America can say they are protecting themselves, but they are being the bully in this case, its all for the oil now mainly. Take in point they compare it to Vietnam, America went out of their way to go to vietnam in their own country and start a war. Then vietnam out of pure grit fought back without technology, then America lost and started sobbing over their fallen soldiers, when they were the ones that initiated it in the first place. America had the advantage yet Vietnam fought through it and then Vietnam gets made to look like the bad guy, can you imagine that? Its like a bully that initiates a fight with you and he's bigger than you, u happen to defend yourself out of pure strategy and hardship, then the bully goes crying and making you out to look like the bad guy. This is a bit similar to Iraq, America says they are pretty much defending their country, but they are going into the Iraq country where the Iraqis have to defend themselves from the US. America has a choice and usually chooses war over all else, sometimes for good intentions, and sometimes for not so good intentions. But i dont blame them, its the leader in Bush, what an idiot. He's willing to sacrifice the great ppl of America to get his name in the history books, especially like Tillman. bush also wants to send man to mars and build a moon base during his presidency, if that doesnt make it more obvious i dont know what does. He does not care and just wants to get his name in the history books, now Clinton was a good president. Like I said before Tillman was really brave and meant good intentions, but unfortunately for the wrong actions in Bush.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">^^Both wars I do not agree with. In terms of Afghanistan: Do you think that this country is the only one with a dictator?? America did not declare war on this country until after it was attacked. They were bombing them before but they went all out after 911 hit. What's happening with North Korea? There are a lot more countries that America needs to deal with then if they want to declare war on all countries oppressing their citizens. That is a lot of war mongering going on.</div> The war in Afghanistan was a DIRECT response to 9/11, it was justified, it was warranted, and it was successful. If 9/11 never happened, the war in Afghanistan would have never happened. Also, America never declared war on Afghanistan, we declared war on the terrorists responsible for 9/11 IN Afghanistan. We did not go into Afghanistan to liberate them from the Taliban, we went in there to hunt down the terrorist scum responsible for 9/11. The terrorists/Al-Quaeda declared war on us, we are just responding. Again, I am talking specifically about the war on terror in Afghanistan, NOT the war in Iraq, people often confuse the two.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">bush also wants to send man to mars and build a moon base during his presidency, if that doesnt make it more obvious i dont know what does.</div> That is completely and utterly false. Bush never stated he wants to send man to Mars and build a moon base during his presidency, he merely stated once in a speech that we should make it a goal to to return to the Moon by the year 2020 . I'm done with this, there's just so much crap and biased lies and false information in this thread, I won't be checking back on this thread...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Accord:</div><div class="quote_post">That is completely and utterly false. Bush never stated he wants to send man to Mars and build a moon base during his presidency, he merely stated once in a speech that we should make it a goal to to return to the Moon by the year 2020 . I'm done with this, there's just so much crap and biased lies and false information in this thread, I won't be checking back on this thread...</div> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3381531.stm actually it says there, it IS part of his re-election campaign. I'm surprised you didnt know that, and i'm from Toronto, well its all good. So it isn't a lie, but although biased, it is not a lie. He doesnt plan to just make it a goal, he also wants to implement it and bring man to mars. I hope you do check this forum back to read this. I read it from the Toronto Star personally a while back and remember it, since i'm a hardcore space enthusiast and Trekker haha.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Accord:</div><div class="quote_post">The war in Afghanistan was a DIRECT response to 9/11, it was justified, it was warranted, and it was successful. If 9/11 never happened, the war in Afghanistan would have never happened. Also, America never declared war on Afghanistan, we declared war on the terrorists responsible for 9/11 IN Afghanistan. We did not go into Afghanistan to liberate them from the Taliban, we went in there to hunt down the terrorist scum responsible for 9/11. The terrorists/Al-Quaeda declared war on us, we are just responding. Again, I am talking specifically about the war on terror in Afghanistan, NOT the war in Iraq, people often confuse the two.</div> I guess they just decided to overthrow the Taliban government while they were just visiting. How can you say that the war on terroism had no affect on afghanistan as a real war would? They weren't just bombing mountains down there, they were bombing cities. I can understand how upset you would be with all of accusations, I would be too if Canada were to be criticized like this. But mistakes are mistakes and bombing cities/countries IMO is not the way to go about things.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dre:</div><div class="quote_post">yes it's just you I think. What is it with people? Can't take ANYTHING at face value. All of it has to have some kind of 'hidden agenda'. Did you ever think that someone made that picture as a tribute to the man,Pat Tillman? Pat Tillman believed in what he was doing and his sacrifice was part of our effort to make a better world. If you can't see that and all you read into it propaganda then so be it. I don't see it that way and neither do millions of other Americans.</div> Okay imagine that instead of the picture reading, "Great sacrifices build great nations.... Pat Tillman, American Hero", it read, "Great sacrifices build great nations..... Sabich Gan, Iraqi Hero" and instead of an American flag, there's a an Iraqi flag in the back. Now to most non-Iraqis (especially Americans), this would be viewed as an ad created by the Iraqi government. So who's to say that that picture with Tillman isn't an ad for the American army? I'm just pointing out two sides of the story. Now I'm also not going to get into a debate about the war in the middle east and whether or not it's justifiable. It will just be a never-ending debate that will only result in anger.
You guys, it's war... it's natrually but sad that people get killed in wars. This guy was a great person, giving up many things to serve his country, a great man... this thread is about him and what he did for his country. I belive no one on this board would have done the same thing. So if you disagree with he's choise, stay out of this thread. This is not a thread about the war, but about this brave solider who gave he's life to serve his country in war, that's a great thing to do. So, lets stop discussing the war, and instead honor the brave solider. Rest in peace Pat Tillman. You will always be looked on as a hero, a brave solider and a man with really good heart. Must his name be remembered for his braveness.
Nice to see that this thread is up and running. But I can't believe some of you guys. As Accord have posted, this Afghanistan war is response to the 9/11 attack. SOme of you are even saying that there's a hidden agenda. One thing's for sure, this was done by Tillman out of pure patriotism. He didn't want any special features, he didn't want to be videotaped. Heck, I'm sure almost of all of us who doesn't watch football regularly knew about a guy who gave up everything for his country. It's called heart. He probably grew up with a dream of doing something great for his country, and he did. Personally I have the same dream but I don't have his heart. If I was in his place, I wouldn't give up everything to fight for my country. That's why everytime I see a picture or an article, it gives me goosebumps and inspires me even more. Someone said that there may be someone in the NBA who'll do this but not a superstar. I agree. But the fact still remains that we couldn't point out a specific player who'll surely do it. Makes me wonder if the NBA players are giving the impression that all they care about is playing the game. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
Many NBA players helping with charity and stuff, but not in the way of going to war for their country. Some could do it, but not many.
