After reading that McGrady was named to the All NBA team, I had to ask myself if he's even a top 10 player in the league. Yes, he's a great talent who can score virtually anywhere and anytime, but his stats are rather misleading. He averages 28 PPG, 6 RPG and 5.5 APG. That stat line alone is great but think about it for a minute. He's leading Orlando in almost every category, including minutes per game, and attempted shots per game. Put him on a team with great depth, and his numbers will definitely go down. I hate 'naming' players without an explanation because thats post padding, but I can think of 10 players who are better than/equal to McGrady. Kobe Bryant Kevin Garnett Tim Duncan Shaquille O'Neal Jermaine O'Neal Sam Cassell Jason Kidd Peja Stojakovic Ben Wallace Ron Artest/Brad Miller All of these players are currently in the playoffs, and they do what it takes to win ballgames. Since McGrady has so many opportunities with his team, (minutes, shots attempted, etc.) it's rather hard to compare him to the other players listed above.
you been smokin' crack ?? cassell, better than mcgrady ??? as john gabriel said, t-mac is inch by inch the greatest player in the world today !
^^John Gabriel said that, i guess he has been the one smokin' crack agree, in terms of stats, mcgrady is virtually one of the best basketball players on the planet today. But your right, if he was on a team like the lakers where he has to share the ball with 3 other hall of famers, he would be along the lines of 18/19 points per game, 5 rpg, and 4.5 apg, but i do not see his minutes going down that much. point is, mcgrady is only getting these numbers because he is the only star on the team and where most of the time he just freestyles throughout the court not doing what he is supposed to do, win. JKidd had about the same amount of talent when he first came (where marbury left off at, and traded for kidd) and he was able to bring his team to the finals his first two years with the nets and possibly 3. i can think of a few players better than mcgrady: *=might be better (basically the same as yours Ice) kobe bryant tim duncan kevin garnett shaquille o'neal jermaine o'neal Vince carter* ray allen ron artest Jason Kidd Ben Wallace
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Fundamentals:</div><div class="quote_post">agree, in terms of stats, mcgrady is virtually one of the best basketball players on the planet today. But your right, if he was on a team like the lakers where he has to share the ball with 3 other hall of famers, he would be along the lines of 18/19 points per game, 5 rpg, and 4.5 apg, but i do not see his minutes going down that much. point is, mcgrady is only getting these numbers because he is the only star on the team and where most of the time he just freestyles throughout the court not doing what he is supposed to do, win. JKidd had about the same amount of talent when he first came (where marbury left off at, and traded for kidd) and he was able to bring his team to the finals his first two years with the nets and possibly 3. i can think of a few players better than mcgrady: *=might be better (basically the same as yours Ice) kobe bryant tim duncan kevin garnett shaquille o'neal jermaine o'neal Vince carter* ray allen ron artest Jason Kidd Ben Wallace</div> if u said that T-Mac isn't that good why you said that Vince Carter is in the top 10?.. he isn't better than T-Mac
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pabs:</div><div class="quote_post">you been smokin' crack ?? cassell, better than mcgrady ??? as john gabriel said, t-mac is inch by inch the greatest player in the world today !</div> Nah, I put the drugs down a while ago. But thanks. Cassell has had his best season yet, he's made the All Star team, and he's helping the Twolves in the playoffs. If i'm not mistaken he just dropped 40 points in Game 1 against the Nuggets. What has McGrady done to lead his team to victories? Wait, nevermind, we'd have to backtrack really far, he's not in the playoffs. Not to mention, he took off the last 2 weeks of the NBA season. This quote might help you Tracy McGrady on being a vocal team leader: "I'm not the type of guy who likes to speak out and rub people the wrong way. That's a role I'm not comfortable with."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">This quote might help you Tracy McGrady on being a vocal team leader: "I'm not the type of guy who likes to speak out and rub people the wrong way. That's a role I'm not comfortable with."</div> Don't you just love Tracy McGrady quotes? My favorite quote of his was the one where he said he was so glad to be in the second round of the playoffs, but the Pistons ended up beating him in the first round. Anyway, no, McGrady is not a top ten player. You are right on the money with this, Ice. You'd probably know better than any of us anyway, since you like in Orlando. Here is my ten players who are better than McGrady - (No Specific Order) * = possibly better 1 - Tim Duncan - Back-To-Back to back MVP. His team is the #3 seed, and he has less supporting talent than McGrady (arguably). 2 - Kevin Garnett - His team is the #1 seed. Sure, he has more talent than McGrady, but he's still the MVP. Just check out this kid's stats... amazing. 3 - Jason Kidd - As Mr.Fundamentals said, when Kidd arrived in New Jersey he had less talent than McGrady did. Jefferson and Martin are good now, but they were rookies when Kidd arrived. What'd Kidd do? He made it to the Finals. McGrady can't even come close to making the playoffs in the East. Kidd also lead the league in assists this year. I don't care who you are, if you lead the league in assists then you are one of the ten best players in the NBA. I felt that way about Andre Miller when he won the assist title a few years back. Assists should be treated just like points or rebounds. Also, Kidd's like a five time first teamer... and his stats haven't fallen off any since and of those five years. 4 - Ron Artest - Artest's team is the #1 team in the NBA. His supporting cast features Jermaine O'Neal, but I doubt McGrady couldn't have the same success with the Pacers that Artest has. Artest is the best defensive player in the NBA, so I have to consider him over McGrady who's defense is less than perfect. 5 - Shaquille O'Neal - They play two completely different positions so they're had to compare. But who honestly thinks McGrady is better than Shaq? 6 - Jermaine O'Neal - He was one of the four or five best players in the NBA this season. Not much of an arguement for McGrady against O'Neal. 7 - Peja Stojakovic - See Above. 8 - Kobe Bryant - I don't want to start another Kobe/TMac debate, but Bryant's stats are unbelievable and his team wins. 9 - Chris Webber - He was injured for majority of the season, but that doesn't mean he's not better than McGrady. I still consider Webber a top ten player. 10 - Sam Cassell - Ice said it well, basically the NBA not putting him over McGrady says that they go for the big names. It also says that they don't value assists much. Others - *11 - Ben Wallace - His team is one of the five best team's in the NBA. Like O'Neal, it's hard to compare Wallace. So I'll leave the astrisk by his name. *12 - Vince Carter *13 - Stephon Marbury *14 - LeBron James *15 - Zach Randolph *16 - Carmello Anthony Maybe McGrady is better than I give him credit for, but he's still not one of the top 5 players in the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't you just love Tracy McGrady quotes? My favorite quote of his was the one where he said he was so glad to be in the second round of the playoffs, but the Pistons ended up beating him in the first round. Anyway, no, McGrady is not a top ten player. You are right on the money with this, Ice. You'd probably know better than any of us anyway, since you like in Orlando. Here is my ten players who are better than McGrady - (No Specific Order) * = possibly better 1 - Tim Duncan - Back-To-Back to back MVP. His team is the #3 seed, and he has less supporting talent than McGrady (arguably). 2 - Kevin Garnett - His team is the #1 seed. Sure, he has more talent than McGrady, but he's still the MVP. Just check out this kid's stats... amazing. 3 - Jason Kidd - As Mr.Fundamentals said, when Kidd arrived in New Jersey he had less talent than McGrady did. Jefferson and Martin are good now, but they were rookies when Kidd arrived. What'd Kidd do? He made it to the Finals. McGrady can't even come close to making the playoffs in the East. Kidd also lead the league in assists this year. I don't care who you are, if you lead the league in assists then you are one of the ten best players in the NBA. I felt that way about Andre Miller when he won the assist title a few years back. Assists should be treated just like points or rebounds. Also, Kidd's like a five time first teamer... and his stats haven't fallen off any since and of those five years. 4 - Ron Artest - Artest's team is the #1 team in the NBA. His supporting cast features Jermaine O'Neal, but I doubt McGrady couldn't have the same success with the Pacers that Artest has. Artest is the best defensive player in the NBA, so I have to consider him over McGrady who's defense is less than perfect. 5 - Shaquille O'Neal - They play two completely different positions so they're had to compare. But who honestly thinks McGrady is better than Shaq? 6 - Jermaine O'Neal - He was one of the four or five best players in the NBA this season. Not much of an arguement for McGrady against O'Neal. 7 - Peja Stojakovic - See Above. 8 - Kobe Bryant - I don't want to start another Kobe/TMac debate, but Bryant's stats are unbelievable and his team wins. 9 - Chris Webber - He was injured for majority of the season, but that doesn't mean he's not better than McGrady. I still consider Webber a top ten player. 10 - Sam Cassell - Ice said it well, basically the NBA not putting him over McGrady says that they go for the big names. It also says that they don't value assists much. Others - *11 - Ben Wallace - His team is one of the five best team's in the NBA. Like O'Neal, it's hard to compare Wallace. So I'll leave the astrisk by his name. *12 - Vince Carter *13 - Stephon Marbury *14 - LeBron James *15 - Zach Randolph *16 - Carmello Anthony Maybe McGrady is better than I give him credit for, but he's still not one of the top 5 players in the NBA.</div> i agree completely
Absolutly no love for Allen Iverson? Do you forget when he single handedly took his team to the NBA finals? But, you have Stephon Marbury, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Zach Randolph in there?
One thing we should keep in mind is that McGrady is a FAR better player than most of the people on those lists. But he isn't a leader. And if he is a leader, he doesn't lead by example. He doesn't play defense, so his teammates don't play defense. That's what it comes down to. #12 in the league in points/game should get you better than the worst record in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe McGrady is better than I give him credit for, but he's still not one of the top 5 players in the NBA.</div> Actually, now that you break it down, I can name more than 10 players. I'll elaborate more from my first post. Ron Artest lacks the offense that McGrady has, but if you watch him play, he's definitely developing it. He has to chase down the best offensive weapon on the other team night in and night out. People don't really give him the credit he deserves, which is sad. They would rather see flashy dunks or someone dropping 30 a night. As for Kobe, he's playing with 3 future HOFers, and still manages to put up amazing numbers. (Although they are down from last season.) Webber came back and had critics all over him, but he's back to his old form. Now that the playoffs are here, he's doing what it takes to carry his Kings. I really think Brad Miller should be on the list as well. Ever since he's been in Sac Town, he's been playing amazing basketball. He carried the slack while Webber was gone, and he's the reason they finished the season with the record they had. His numbers have gone down now that Webber is back in the lineup, but take Webber out, and you have a completely different player. Without question, he's an All Star. So my list is: Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd, Ron Artest, Sam Cassell, Shaquille O'Neal, Jermaine O'Neal, Peja Stojakovic, Kobe Bryant, Ben Wallace, Chris Webber, and Brad Miller. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">One thing we should keep in mind is that McGrady is a FAR better player than most of the people on those lists. But he isn't a leader. And if he is a leader, he doesn't lead by example. He doesn't play defense, so his teammates don't play defense. That's what it comes down to. #12 in the league in points/game should get you better than the worst record in the league.</div> Being a leader is part of being a great player. It's that simple. Also, as I have already mentioned, toss the stat line out the window. It's irreverent because of his surrounding players. Due to that very fact, he's forced to take more shots, and he's given more minutes than most of the players on the list. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutly no love for Allen Iverson? Do you forget when he single handedly took his team to the NBA finals?</div> Yep, no love for AI. Allen Iverson is a smaller version of McGrady. They both run their mouths off to the media, take loads of shots, and lead their team in minutes played. Because of his increased minutes, shots, etc. that only boosts his stat line.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Zach Randolph </div> i hope you're kiddin
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Peja King:</div><div class="quote_post">i hope you're kiddin</div> Melo, bron and Randoph? WTF? I think offensicely you're not gonna find a better guy than TMac, but his main problems are his heart, defence and leadership. He also talks way too much trash
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Peja King:</div><div class="quote_post">if u said that T-Mac isn't that good why you said that Vince Carter is in the top 10?.. he isn't better than T-Mac</div> naw i know vince isn't better now but he could be didn't you read the whole "*=might be better" thing?
none of you hav a clue, of course he's a top ten player, maybe even a top five. asid efrom that fact that he cant lead a team to save his life, he is one of the most talented players in the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ReRun:</div><div class="quote_post">none of you hav a clue, of course he's a top ten player, maybe even a top five. asid efrom that fact that he cant lead a team to save his life, he is one of the most talented players in the NBA.</div> Top 5?is he better than Kobe, Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd, Jermaine O Neal, Shaq, Kevin Garnett? Don't think so...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Fundamentals:</div><div class="quote_post">naw i know vince isn't better now but he could be didn't you read the whole "*=might be better" thing?</div> Same. LeBron, Carmello, and Zach may not be better now, but you could make a case for them. In the future, I think they'll be better. Hence the "* = possibly better" that I put down. Read the whole post people.
t-mac is better than kobe. one season, t-mas had better seasons before these. o ya, what was LA's record w/o shaq? o ya, muvch worse with kbobe running the show.
This is ridiculous. The ONLY reason T-Mac isn't a top 10 player in the previously mentioned lists, is because his team sucked this season. Does that make him less of a player? no way. How else are we going to argue, besides looking at stats? T-Mac's CAREER stats blow away Artest and Cassell. Are his numbers inflated because his team sucks? maybe. but consider that KG's numbers are the best of his career, with the most talented team he's ever played on. T-Mac on a better team means less double teams, maybe a higher FG%, maybe more rebounds and assists. Wave said the league doesn't value assists that much....Cassell only averaged about 2 more assists per game, while averaging 9 less points, 3 less rebounds, and 2 less 3PG.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yep, no love for AI. Allen Iverson is a smaller version of McGrady. They both run their mouths off to the media, take loads of shots, and lead their team in minutes played. Because of his increased minutes, shots, etc. that only boosts his stat line.</div> Running there mouths to the media? That has nothing to do with being one of the best in the league. Leading there team in minutes played? Oh yeah...since when was that a bad thing? Take load of shots? Yeah, and thats what they needed him to do. With him taking a load of shots, they made it to the NBA finals. Not sure if you saw his numbers or not...26.4 ppg, 6.8 apg, 3.7 rpg, 2.4 spg. Pretty great. Not sure if you knew...but Allen Iverson averaged 24 shots per game, with NO ONE. Kevin Garnett averaged about 20 shots per game with Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell. Kobe Bryant averaged 19 shots per game with 3 Hall Of Famers. I really am sick of hearing about Iverson's shot count. He is a phenomenal basketball player. Hey Wave. What is so great about Marbury now? He has more talent on his team than Iverson did in 2000-01, and they are getting embarressed. One minute he is the best thing ever, and the 2nd best PG in the league (last season), then all of a sudden he cannot run a team (beginning of this season), and then he is back to being the 2nd best PG in the league (right now).
