Pick it up guys, THIS season McGrady isnt a top 10 player. Just read Hunters posts. I feel theres nothing else I can add because the mods/admin nailed it. Tmac_Ownz learn what biased means before you post in this thread. I know you are a fan but to stay McGrady is a top 5 player is straight up wrong. What about KG, Kobe, Duncan, Jermaine, and Shaq? Im guessing the point of the thread was to start a debate, and some of you guys suck ass at it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Like I said Tracy has the talent of a top 10 player. In terms of talent he is one of the best players at everything you listed as a whole however this year he WAS NOT. </div> Exactly, and I'm guessin thats why Ice started this thread. Before you bitch about what he has to say realize that it was THIS season. And yes, part of being a top 10 player includes leadership. Sam Cassell, KG, TD, Kobe, Shaq, Jermaine, Artest and Peja have all had better seasons.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Hunter:</div><div class="quote_post">Darrell Armstrong was the leader of that team last year. Just like Bruce Bowen was the leader of the Spurs, Derek Fisher was for the Lakers, and Kerry Kittles was for the Nets. Whatever you say. What does Kobe have to do with any of this? Did I ever mention Kobe in my explanation? Please explain yourself..I would be enamored to hear your explanation. First off TMAC isn't the best leader, he isn't the best clutch player, he isn't the best defender, and he isn't the best scorer IN THE LEAGUE. He might be on his team however when we talk in terms of the league he is NOT the best. He is a great player and is super-talented however for like the 500th time in this thread, "He is not a top 10 player this year". Like I said Tracy has the talent of a top 10 player. In terms of talent he is one of the best players at everything you listed as a whole however this year he WAS NOT. Just because you can score doesn't make you a great player. If he would have displayed leadership he would be worthy of making the NBA All-Star First Team however this year he didn't display it. When did I ever say T-Mac wasn't a top 10 player? I hate it when people use stuff in an argument that I never said. It makes no sense and is rather childish.</div> You have good points, but how can you say he isn't the best scorer. He has lead the league in scoring 2 years in a row. He can score from anywhere on the court. He faces double and triple teams every night and still puts up great numbers without being a dominant big man!!
^well it is argueable that TMac is not the best scorer, look at the fact that he takes the most shots in a game in the league, and look at his shooting percentage, isn't all that great, yes he can score, i'm not saying that he can't, not trying to take anything away from him but i can see KG and TD (i was going to say Kobe but then there woul be another arguement) averaging more points if they took as many shots as TMac
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Hunter:</div><div class="quote_post">Darrell Armstrong was the leader of that team last year. Just like Bruce Bowen was the leader of the Spurs, Derek Fisher was for the Lakers, and Kerry Kittles was for the Nets. Whatever you say. </div> Just one part that I disagree with--that. DA was definitely the leader of the Magic. You don't have to be the best player on your team to be its heart. By the way, for all the T-Mac fans, Paul Pierce's team was just as bad as McGrady's. What allowed Boston to win is that Pierce himself played DEFENSE. Let's get this part straight here: Tracy McGrady is physically a better player than Paul Pierce in almost every way there is. What set Pierce above T-Mac this year was that because he played defense, he led by example, and thus his team played defense. T-Mac does not give two shits about D, and thus his team isn't motivated to play D either. The Celtics as a team averaged one more point per game than the Magic (keeping in mind T-Mac sat out 15 games), but here's what allowed them to have 15 more wins: they gave up 5 fewer points per game. When you're relatively shortchanged on talent, you win with defense, and defense starts with the leader.
Pierce led by example? Pierce was their Head Coach at the end of the season after Obrien left. T-Mac was not inspired to play D in Orlando this season. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting desmondmason:</div><div class="quote_post"> Tmac_Ownz learn what biased means before you post in this thread. I know you are a fan but to stay McGrady is a top 5 player is straight up wrong. What about KG, Kobe, Duncan, Jermaine, and Shaq?</div> T-Mac is better than Jermaine. What is this about? Stats? T-Mac has better stats .. 4 less rebounds but J is a PF... Not stats? Give T-Mac artest , reggie and Harrington and give Oneal Declerq , DeShawn Stevenson and Keith Bogans. (DeShawn and Stevenson are great btw at least in the team right now) give J those players and give T-Mac those players to see who has the better record and is called a leader (if thats another reason) Earlier in this thread I read a guy saying T-Mac was a leader last season , no he wasn't at least not the vocal leader but if he leads by example like he has always done and theres a good vocal leader and people that play defense and a good record I bet you he would be named a top 5 leader.
I thought T-mac would develop into a leader...but after they were struggling this season, T-mac made it a point to rip his teammates (on more than one occasion)...He practically gave up on his team, and that's where I lost a lot of respect...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TMac_OwNz:</div><div class="quote_post">Pierce led by example? Pierce was their Head Coach at the end of the season after Obrien left. T-Mac was not inspired to play D in Orlando this season.</div> Not inspired to play D? A great player requires someone to TELL him to play D in order for him to do it?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ANiMuS:</div><div class="quote_post">Not inspired to play D? A great player requires someone to TELL him to play D in order for him to do it?</div> What I meant to say was , that after playing great defense but 5 players play offense against you and you lose 19 games in a row it becomes kind of helpless to even try and play D.
It might have been BECAUSE he didn't play D (and thus his team didn't either) that they lost 19 in a row?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pabs:</div><div class="quote_post">you been smokin' crack ?? cassell, better than mcgrady ??? as john gabriel said, t-mac is inch by inch the greatest player in the world today !</div> No that honor would go to Earl Boykins....
I will answer everyone's questions about his defense. I have been on a bunch of posts, I will put it in all caps to get the point across. TMAC CANNOT GUARD 5 GUYS. HE IS UNDERRATED DEFENDER. HE DOESN'T SUCK AT DEFENDING. IT'S NOT ALL HIS FAULT. HE CAN'T STOP ODOM FROM DRIVING AROUND DECLERQ. HE CAN'T STOP SHAQ FROM POSTING UP ON DECLERQ. HE CAN'T STOP JERMIANE O NEAL TO GO DOWNLOW AND POST UP ON JUWAN AND GOODEN. HE CANNOT PLAY 42 MINS 110% ON OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE END. HE HAS NO HELP ON OFFENSE, WHICH FORCES HIM TO EXERT ALL OF HIS ENERGY ON THE OFFENSIVE END TO EVEN KEEP US CLOSE IN THE GAME AND HE ALWAYS GETS DOUBLED TEAMED, WHICH EXERTS MORE ENERGY. I WOULD GUARANTEE YOU THAT EVEN GREAT DEFENDERS LIKE ARTEST, KOBE, AND BRUCE BOWEN, IF YOU TAKE AWAY THERE BIG MANS(BOTH O'NEALS AND TD) THEN THERE DEFENSE WOULD SUFFER. THEY WOULD STILL LIKELY BE GOOD DEFENDERS, BUT NOT TOP FLITE. NONE OF THOSE PLAYERS HAVE TO EXERT 110% BOTH OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE ENDS, LIKE TMAC DOES. TMAC IS A VERY UNDERRATED DEFENDER. If your lists are for this year, then why is Chris Webber on some? The pathetic part of Tmac cutting down his players is that's the only way it seems to motivate them. They suck and don't put forth the effort and then Tmac cuts them down and they magically(no pun intended) become good and win a couple of games. We need some motivation and that is Tmac's fault. I'm gonna look for Tmac to look at himself and figure that he needs to become a leader if he wants to be part of the elite players again. Alright, he doesn't belong in the top 5, but I definetely would still put him in the top 7 or 8. Hopefully Tmac has a "good" year next year, considering 28 6 5 is a "bad" year.
The Magic have more talent than the Utah Jazz. They have more talent than the Golden State Warriors. But they are much worse than those teams? Why? A great player knows how to make his team better. McGrady didn't make his team better this year. They would have sucked just as much without him as they did with him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">TMAC IS A VERY UNDERRATED DEFENDER.</div> I think McGrady is worthy of being a Top 10 Player this year. If you take away his team record, and look at his stats, he's not having that bad of a year. But if you include his team reocrd he's not a Top 10 player. If the NBA did include his team record he wouldnt make the second team. Michael Redd would get his spot instead. But as for McGrady being a underated defender. Hey...He might be a underated defender. I personally think he is ( Just a little ).But that dosent really change anything. He's still a lazy defender. If you watch him play D. It seems as if the player that he guarding gets to the baseline with ease. I won't even get to the quick players.
I think that McGrady is one of the best players on tha NBA right now. Unlike Kobe, McGrady dont got teammates. You need other people on ya team to win games. Kobe has that but McGrady doesnt. I want to see Kobe at Orlando and McGrady at Los Angeles.
How does he have no help? He can make the team better. Dont' NBA players practice? Don't they try to improve their game. How can role players suck so much? Its the coaching and the players desicion making. C'mon theyre all in the league for something.
Now i am completely unbiased. I am going to end this thread right now by settling the dispute. TRACY MCGRADY is NOT a top 25 player in the league. If i were a GM i would not want him on my team too big off a distraction. He has not done anything in this league besides cry. Orlando would have had a better record this year if they didnt have T-Mac. He never plays defense and yells at his teamates. Wait till he goes to a good team and does that crap. He will get punked. The Magic need to get T-Mac off their salary cap for a proven leader or for second round draft picks. He takes up so much space and hurts his team. If i am John Weisbord i trade him to the Jazz for thier first round pick and make him suffer under Jerry Sloan. He wont get to play a single minute under slaone.
^^why do you guys try to keep calling out kobe in this thread when this about TMac being a top 10 player?For the last and final time It is part of being a superstar's job to make his teammates better and for him to take it upon himself to make his team get a couple of wins(record above .350) and to be much more mature especially just because your team is losing, you make a stupid comment like wanting to retire? Okay, last year TMac was a top 5 player, this year i do not even consider him to be top 10, you know why? His team's record never even reached 22 wins, and that is pathetic, i would say a lot more but apparently after all those posts i have nothing else to say, not to mention the fact that you TMac fans will just not accept the fact he is not top 10 this year. I'm through..
He does give his teammates so many opportunities, they just can't finish. Yes, he is a lazy defender, but he's resting because he has to put so much pressure into the offensive end, because we don't stand a chance without him scoring. He's still a good defender even if he is lazy. Yao_Ming, there is no way we would be better without Tmac. He missed somewhere around 15 games and we won 2 of them. So for every 15 games add 2 wins and we likely wouldn't even have 10 wins without him. This is Tmac's decision year. He's going to have to decide whether or not he wants to work hard and rejoin the elite or if he's satisfied with giving his team 21 wins.
Ha ha some of the stuff ive been reading is kinda funny. Its a simple thread: THIS season McGrady isnt a top 10 player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's still a good defender even if he is lazy. </div> How the hell does that work?
