<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, but no. Kobe matches up very well with MJ. I just hate it, because The Kobester came after His Airness... If Kobe would've been first, I know without a shadow opf a doubt, people would say Kobe is the best. IMHO that is the case. Also, Kobe is a better outside shooter, has a better crossover, and is way better with his left. Only thing MJ ever did with his left was that memorable lay-up against the Lakers. I give him credit... Nice shot, but Kobe is getting to the point where he can be better... Too bad Kobe wasn't first, but soon enough he'll prove himself. I don't remember MJ drilling a buzzer beater with one of the premier defenders in the league, I might add, all over him while falling. Then coming back in the 2OT and drilling a fadde-away three with another guy right in his face, while down by 2 and winning the game!!...</div> I never call people out for their post & threads but this is the worse, Iam sorry. 1) If Kobe was 1st he would have been better, are you serious. Name one teamate that Kobe has had a serious impact on making them a better player. MJ took Scottie Pippen on & help him become tuff. I remember when the Pistons use to try to attack the heart of Scottie Pippen. But MJ helped him become mentaly stronger. And because of that Scottie Pippen is one of the greats. 2) What do you consider outside, the 3pt line? because Kobe Bryant isnt in MJ's league when it comes to mid range game. And if you are talking about 3pt shots Kobe shot 32% from 3pt land this season. And is a career 33% shooter from beyond the strip. He isnt a great outside shooter, he just takes it alot more than MJ did. And if you ask some people they say Kobe settles for the 3 too much. 3) The Last statement was the best or should I say the worse, MJ made a career out of making big shots in pressure situations. A game winning or tieing shot is still important, does it matter if the buzzer went off as he shot the ball? BTW, MJ made the most famous or one of the most famous buzzer beaters in playoff history. When he rose above Craig Ehlo in the 89' playoffs to give the bulls the series win vs the Cavs. And thats just one of the many buzzer beaters that come to mind when you say MJ.
I agree CourtVision that he did sound like he was trying to make Kobe sound like the better player, which is not true yet. Although, I do agree with the point that he is making, if Kobe were to have done what he has done before Jordan, and if Jordan was 25 right now it really would be people comparing to Jordan to Kobe. You might even be able to win the argument that Kobe is better in that situation, because Jordan was still just a great player putting up great stats on a bad team. These are probably my least favorite topics to talk about, because comparing players' games and careers are impossible, especially if one of them is still only 25. Maybe in 10 years from now we can have this topic brought up again and Kobe may be the better player, or maybe Kobe won't be able to win anything once Shaq is gone and he won't even be considered a top 10 ever. Either way to have this discussion about who is better and what not, is way too early. Like I said, 10 years from now you could make these arguments, but right now it's just dumb IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">1) If Kobe was 1st he would have been better, are you serious. Name one teamate that Kobe has had a serious impact on making them a better player.</div> That is exactly what I mean when I say it is way too early to be making this discussion. Kobe really hasn't made anyone better in his career yet, but he's still only 25. Jordan didn't start doing that until the first couple of years in his first championship run, so what's that about. Jordan didn't make anyone better when he was in his best years, he just posted up great numbers. Kobe does that exact same thing right now. Later in his career Jordan really did have a huge impact on his roll players, and Kobe might be like that in the future too. You can't make these kind of statements when the guy is maybe only half way through his career. Like I said earlier, way too early to be having this discussion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Phreeze:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree CourtVision that he did sound like he was trying to make Kobe sound like the better player, which is not true yet. Although, I do agree with the point that he is making, if Kobe were to have done what he has done before Jordan, and if Jordan was 25 right now it really would be people comparing to Jordan to Kobe. You might even be able to win the argument that Kobe is better in that situation, because Jordan was still just a great player putting up great stats on a bad team. These are probably my least favorite topics to talk about, because comparing players' games and careers are impossible, especially if one of them is still only 25. Maybe in 10 years from now we can have this topic brought up again and Kobe may be the better player, or maybe Kobe won't be able to win anything once Shaq is gone and he won't even be considered a top 10 ever. Either way to have this discussion about who is better and what not, is way too early. Like I said, 10 years from now you could make these arguments, but right now it's just dumb IMO.</div> ^ I agree Phreeze, I mean lets be serious for a minute Kobe plays with probably the most dominant player ever. Playing with Shaq covers up alot of your flaws & imperfections. You can never compare MJ & Kobe until, Kobe leaves the Lakers. And we get to see all of the aspects of his game as far as being a leader etc. Things change alot when you dont have a 7-1 monster to fall back on.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting worldchamps9903:</div><div class="quote_post">Whats the difference between these two? and I dont mean the rape case or jordans 6 rings to kobe's 3 or stats..I mean skill wise? To me Kobe has a better handle then jordanand everything else is just similar. They both have that same hunger and drive to be the best so whats so diffeent about these two</div> I think early on they are probably very similar, with Kobe having more sucess in terms of championships. But when Jordans first step started to slow, he developed the most unstoppable move ever. He went to his bread and butter fade away, and killed alot of teams. Time will only tell if Kobe can come up with something later in his career. Also, I think Jordan should be considered 10 times better cause he was the guy in chicago, while Scottie was his wingman, i sorta think its the other way around in LA.
Kobe can be lazy and puts his ego first. MJ puts his team and the wins above all else. Plus how can you be better than the best? A leader, and a player. Only his offcourt skills were pretty bad. His game however was unstoppable most of the time, you can see Kobe falter, MJ never even so much as trembled.
Jordan has just as much an ego as Kobe does, trust me, that's what makes them great. If you know or remember when Phil first took over the Bulls and asked Jordan to take less shots and get his teammates involved, his response was: "Okay, if but we start losing I'm shooting". Even during Chicago's title run, Phil Jackson has openly remarked that Jordan strays away from the offense too much. I think they're both team players in the sense they want to win and both think that scoring alot of points will do that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">No. He woultn've of gone through the hardships that have made him Kobe. Besides, the Lakers would most likely not have him right now... and they would have 3 less rings!</div> Out of those 3 rings, how many Finals MVP awards did Kobe get? Out of Jordan's 6, how many Finals MVP awards did he get?
CourtVision... That's why they are not called long-range jumpers, but mid-range. Think about it man. Kobe is better at long range, note: I never said MID-range and long doesn't include mid. Also, I'm saying that if obe would've been what he is way back in the late 80's and early 90's and MJ came in the late 90's and early 00's, people would say Kobe is the best because of the fact that he was the first player like that. I'm not saying he is. Just think about it and you'll know it's true.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">[/B] I never call people out for their post & threads but this is the worse, Iam sorry. 1) If Kobe was 1st he would have been better, are you serious. Name one teamate that Kobe has had a serious impact on making them a better player. MJ took Scottie Pippen on & help him become tuff. I remember when the Pistons use to try to attack the heart of Scottie Pippen. But MJ helped him become mentaly stronger. And because of that Scottie Pippen is one of the greats. 2) What do you consider outside, the 3pt line? because Kobe Bryant isnt in MJ's league when it comes to mid range game. And if you are talking about 3pt shots Kobe shot 32% from 3pt land this season. And is a career 33% shooter from beyond the strip. He isnt a great outside shooter, he just takes it alot more than MJ did. And if you ask some people they say Kobe settles for the 3 too much. 3) The Last statement was the best or should I say the worse, MJ made a career out of making big shots in pressure situations. A game winning or tieing shot is still important, does it matter if the buzzer went off as he shot the ball? BTW, MJ made the most famous or one of the most famous buzzer beaters in playoff history. When he rose above Craig Ehlo in the 89' playoffs to give the bulls the series win vs the Cavs. And thats just one of the many buzzer beaters that come to mind when you say MJ.</div> That is not what i said. I never said Kobe would've been better, I said people would believe he was the better of the two. I know that even if Kobe does in fact finish his career and ends up being greater than MJ, some people just won't face the facts and admit it. I mean it is so obvious that because MJ was first he got the advantage right away. People never saw anything like that, and a few years after Kobe came into the league, he was already attracting attention as the next MJ... Most people said no, there will never be another Mike... But if Kobe would've come first, I know people would be saying vice-versa in Kobe's favor. People, stop letting your love for MJ blind you of the truth. Kobe can very easily be the favored man. I never said he was better... He can become better, yea, but you have to read and think about my whole message before you talk about the "worst post", etc. First learn some grammar then we'll talk. Also, Kobe has had so many clutch shots as well. If it wasn't for Kobe, the Lakers definately wouln't have had three championships in a row like they did and would prob. be all the way down to 4 or 5 place in the West right now (Think of the records here: If Kobe wouldn't have made three or four of his clutch plays, the Lakers would be dropped way down in the standings). Face the facts people. Kobe is just about the next best thing to MJ, and if you don't want to see that, that is your problem.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, but no. Kobe matches up very well with MJ. I just hate it, because The Kobester came after His Airness... If Kobe would've been first, I know without a shadow opf a doubt, people would say Kobe is the best. IMHO that is the case. Also, Kobe is a better outside shooter, has a better crossover, and is way better with his left. Only thing MJ ever did with his left was that memorable lay-up against the Lakers. I give him credit... Nice shot, but Kobe is getting to the point where he can be better... Too bad Kobe wasn't first, but soon enough he'll prove himself. I don't remember MJ drilling a buzzer beater with one of the premier defenders in the league, I might add, all over him while falling. Then coming back in the 2OT and drilling a fadde-away three with another guy right in his face, while down by 2 and winning the game!!...</div> T-Mac fans are biased? Thanks for saying what I was about to say Henacy , and Phreeze thanks god they are all not biased and immature to say such things , I agree with you as well. QUOTE OF THE YEAR!!!!I don't remember MJ drilling a buzzer beater with one of the premier defenders in the league, I might add, all over him while falling. Then coming back in the 2OT and drilling a fadde-away three with another guy right in his face, while down by 2 and winning the game!!... I just wish T-Mac had at least a good Supporting crew so that he could be compared to MJ *sighs*
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Magic Johnson:</div><div class="quote_post">you can see Kobe falter, MJ never even so much as trembled.</div> That's a problem I have with a lot of discussions that involve Mike these days. Because he's been immortalized now as the GOAT, most people talk about him in a way that makes it sound like everything he did was magical, that there were no flaws whatsoever. That's completely false; back when he actually played, there were definitely justified criticisms of his game. Unfortunately people don't remember them anymore, or just didn't see very much in person and are thus going on his rep alone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">CourtVision... That's why they are not called long-range jumpers, but mid-range. Think about it man. Kobe is better at long range, note: I never said MID-range and long doesn't include mid. Also, I'm saying that if obe would've been what he is way back in the late 80's and early 90's and MJ came in the late 90's and early 00's, people would say Kobe is the best because of the fact that he was the first player like that. I'm not saying he is. Just think about it and you'll know it's true.</div> You could have just said that Kobe is a better three point shooter. In regards to Kobe coming before Jordan I think differently actually. I think Kobe is Kobe because Jordan came before him. Can you tell me seriously that Kobe (along with other superstars) does not try to mimic his game after MJ? They did not idolize Jordan when they were young? We are talking in riddles right now because we will never know. But MJ trailblazed the path for players such as Kobe, Lebron, Pierce, VC who try to become him. Also someone brought up the fact that Jordan has 6 finals MVP's for 6 finals under his belt. How many does Kobe have? Jordan was the man on the Bulls, Kobe is not even considered the man on his team (That goes to Shaq). We don't what would happen if the roles were reversed, we can only focus on what is happening right now. MJ came before Kobe AND I still think that MJ is a way better player than Kobe.
I agree with Animus...Mike is the GOAT, but he was far from perfect...as a society, we tend to embellish (that might not be the best word) the feats of our heroes...that's not taking anything away from MJ, because there is no doubt in my mind he is the greatest from what I've seen, Kobe isn't even close to MJ... however, how Kobe is percieved 20 years from now might be a different story..
Mike didn't have many flaws but even he would tell you he missed more game winners than he hit, although It's hard to believe him. MJ supporting cast was very bad when he first entered the league. He would keep making the playoffs, would score 30+ and as we saw in the famous Boston series go off for 63 and still lose the game. It was basically just him and a bunch of role players, Kobe would be lucky to win 25 games If he was given the talent MJ had to carry when he first came out of college. Every great player needs support around him but you have to play with what you are given and Michael improved his team better than the talent level he was given. Kobe should never be considered in the same sentance as MJ, I get tired of people bringing it up. No matter how much the league trys to market a guy to be the next Jordan we will never get a guy better than and certainly not get a guy who did more for the league.
i dont like dissing people, but Primetime that was the stupidest most ignorant thing u could say. did kobe drop 37per game his second season? did he slam dunk from the free throw line?
Yea, but MJ never faced the KG's, Tim Duncans, T-Macs, Paul Pierces', etc. He faced Magic (late state of his career) and Bird as well (Late state too.) But can you name one player that actually was half as good as MJ back then and in their Prime? I think not! If Kobe, MJ, T-Mac, Paul Pierce, KG, TD, etc. played in the same era, MJ would not the the "American Idol" he is right now. Sorry but that is just true men.
i think they are both even as of now in terms of EGO, will, determination etc... but Kobe is only 25 guys, remember that. He's the closesnt thing to MJ at 25 and it is impossible to compare the 2...Jordan didnt really blossom into the complete player he is (leader, unstopaable) till the 90's started...and he was in his late 20-early 30's then....thats when it all started for him...and it was HIM that had a whole team built around him and other players had to adjust to him... wheras Kobe, came in as this young hotshot highschool kid, won 3 rings and is being compared to MJ....it takes time to be a great player and Kobe is amazing in his own rights but he cant be compared to MJ until he is 1) on a team where he himself is the lone superstar with some pretty good role players and he will have to have confidence in them to win.. remember, jordan made other players around him better too....cuz Dennis Rodmans game when he was on the bulls was based on MJ....he was so skilled to the point where he memorized where MJ's shot would fall off etc.. anyways....for 25, Kobe is pretty damn close to MJ...but it might take 10 more years and a couple of more rings to surpass him... Kobe has Shaq...jordan never had a shaq....instead, all the other players had HIM... and finally, Kobe is straight up the closest thing to MJ right now...49 pts for 9 straight games speak for themselves.. Also...people talk about Jordan in this thread like he had no flaws ???? Jordan wasnt completely mature till he had taken losses year after year in the playoffs every year from 85-90 and finally in 91 he capitilazed cuz it took him FIVE YEARS to make himself unstoppable...Kobe is the most unstoppable SG in the game right now (Yes Tmac is also there) but it will take more years for him to develop a game that surpasses MJ's...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea, but MJ never faced the KG's, Tim Duncans, T-Macs, Paul Pierces', etc. He faced Magic (late state of his career) and Bird as well (Late state too.) But can you name one player that actually was half as good as MJ back then and in their Prime? I think not! If Kobe, MJ, T-Mac, Paul Pierce, KG, TD, etc. played in the same era, MJ would not the the "American Idol" he is right now. Sorry but that is just true men.</div> You know this how? It's clear you me you never watched MJ play nor do you realise how damn good he was. Jordan in his prime today would still destroy teams and beat down on guys like Mcgrady, Kobe, Pierce and even score well on Artest and guys like Bowen...He was that good and the era he played in was still at a very high level. Better than today...The NBA level right now is at a all time low. Mike is the reason Malone and Stockton have never won a championship, you can also add Gary Payton and Charles Barkley to that list as well.
prime are u kidding. he faced dvid robinson and hakeem olujuwan and dont forget kareem and magic and isiah and bird and chris mullin and tons more.
