<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Progidy:</div><div class="quote_post">Who knows Dre? who knows? About what u said about Shaq being out...umm...The Lakers offense goes through shaq...and the Bulls offense goes through MJ...MJ has to be the leader...If Shaq gets out...and Kobe is the primary offense for a couple of weeks...the chem. is not there, the experience is not there...</div> why the back trackin'? Before Kobe was just as good if not better than Mike. If that was so he shoulda picked up the slack. But that didn't happen. So therefor can we not safely say that as of now Kobe is not 'as good if not better' than MJ? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The leadership is not arguable. Leadership is not easy to measure. U got to be in the locker room and practices to do that. You got to be in the huddle to see that...We as fans, spectators, can not really see that.</div> We can't? Watch any Bulls game from '85 thru '98 and get back to me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You act like I'm saying that Kobe is better than MJ.</div> That is exactly what you implied. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you know how many shots Jordan sometimes took?</div> yes I do. Look at his FG% and you'll see it was a justified. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you know why Horace Grant left the team?</div> Money was the primary reason. He wanted more than Krause and Reinsdorf were willing to give so he hit the road. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What about Kerr gettin' socked?</div> socked? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What about the fact that he was criticized for not passing the ball in the 4th?</div> Who else would be the focus in the 4th quarter? Anyways,Mike had no problems passing the ball in the 4th quarter if his man was open or in good position. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What you said about Pippen being mentored by Jordan is wack, did you forget about Phil Jackson.</div> Wack? No playa. MJ and Scottie went at each other hardcore in practice. Pip said those practices elevated his game more than anything in his life. Those practices took Pip's game to another level. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">can you read Kobe's lips during close games. He's tellin' them advice. He was tellin' the 40 year old vetaren, Malone, to calm down, during a bad call (I forgot when or what it was, but he did) He was telling Malone what to do. He's a b-ball prodigy...He tells Shaq that he can hit the freethrows when the game is on the line...</div> And this has what to do with your argument? Is this some attempt to point out Kobe's leadership? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Besides those "abstract" points you pointed in your thread...Kobe Bryant is = to Michael Jordan...Kobe has to develop the leadership (when he gets his team) and is maturing vastly year by year.</div> Kobe is in his 8th season. He's 25 years old. How much more time he need to mature and be a true leader? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know how you say Kobe shouldn't even be in the same atmosphere. Look I'm talking skillwise, not that drama about MVP, determination, helping, leadership, etc. They both got that thing, zest.</div> You actually read anything I said? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is developing maturity, leadership (when he's in that position) because he's barely in his 7th or 8th year...He's barely 25!!! Talk to me after he retires k?</div> Barely 25? in bout 4 months he'll be 26 How much more time he need to 'develop'? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bottom Line, MJ was dope, maybe dopest, but MJ's hype has created this "thing", that nobody can erase, there is also nostalgia towards him. MJ said it him self, that people think he can do stuff that he probably can't even do.</div> Jordan's fanfare is well placed. He earned it. His game was the most complete of anyone in history. He took the NBA to heights it never would have gotten to with him. You act as if all of this was lumped on Jordan for no reason at all. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">KB8 is so much like Jordan, but don't say that Jordan will be the bestest ever and ever and he aint no where near. Trust me Kobe Bryant has the ingredients.</div> Kobe is nowhere near Jordan yet. I'm not replying to the rest of this..its repetitive and no need to say the same things over and over.
The only subjective way to compare Kobe and MJ is where they stand at their ages...Saying Kobe right now (age 25) is equal to MJ of the 90's would be foolish...Nobody could win that arguement. I had the chance to see the last 5 or so years of MJ's CHICAGO CAREER and Kobe isn't even near that level yet... However, I've only seen MJ of the 80's on footage...from my understanding of things, Michael had his share of growing pains as a player...one can argue that Kobe now is equal to MJ at the same age....i dunno, i'm not in the position to argue that (due to my age) ...but from what I understand, MJ's level of play kept growing till the point he was nearly untouchable... Kobe MIGHT be as good as Jordan was at the same age, but I feel it is highly unlikely "prime Kobe" will ever be as good as "prime Jordan"...but that's for only history to judge...
You know, for Kobe to ever meet the level of the greatest player of all time, he kind of needs to be the best player of HIS time at some point.
guys we need to drop it, kobe is clutch but isnt great when his team needs cushion points, MJ is the best bottom line.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting DonJuan:</div><div class="quote_post">For those of you who think Kobe is better than MJ the statistics says otherwise. Until the day Kobe averages better than 30 ppg AND shoots better 50% there is no point comparing the two. MJ has far better numbers than Kobe does. Short of a time machine that will allow us to zap Kobe back to 1988 and play MJ one on one, statistics is what we have to rely on. The stats speaks for itself.</div> This conversation should have never been started just to the fact that Kobe is still mid way through his career, whereas Jordan has been done for years (not including the Washington days because it didn't mean much.) We shouldn't be comparing them yet in the first place, and now you bring up stats. Jordan had every chance to do whatever he wants from day 1, whereas Kobe had to work his way into the team. He also has had to play while adjusting to Shaq's game, which is an advantage in some ways ofcourse but not in the "statisics" you like to use. 10 years from now we can talk about this again, it might be a little better argument. Right now ofcourse you would pick Jordan as the better player, he's won titles, MVPs, scoring titles, DPY awards, you name it. Kobe will probably never achieve those things Michael has but maybe he'll do something better, you got to remember he is only 25.
hes only 25 going on 26, and hes already in his prime dont expect him to get any better. no way theya re even close.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ReRun:</div><div class="quote_post">hes only 25 going on 26, and hes already in his prime dont expect him to get any better. no way theya re even close.</div> now that, I disagree with...Unless Kobe is going to jail, I don't think he peaked at 25 ...
Kobe is still in the process of his evolution, whereas Jordan's best statements have already been made. Kobe = 25 and going strong.
Kobe even said, that he's saving his legs and energy until he's about 27 and he's going to play with all he has fomr there on doing monster dunks on people, etc. So I can't wait to see if Kobe keeps his promise. I don't have a link for that statement, but I remember watching and interview or soemthing and they asked him what he thought about ince and Kobe said that's why Vince is injured all the time... Tries to do too much... Kobe said he wanted to accomplish a few goals before having to worry about getting injured (Lower Bod-not including the shoulder) So, obviously, he won't peak til he's about 27+. When did MJ peak? Expect the same form Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe even said, that he's saving his legs and energy until he's about 27 and he's going to play with all he has fomr there on doing monster dunks on people, etc. So I can't wait to see if Kobe keeps his promise. I don't have a link for that statement, but I remember watching and interview or soemthing and they asked him what he thought about ince and Kobe said that's why Vince is injured all the time... Tries to do too much... Kobe said he wanted to accomplish a few goals before having to worry about getting injured (Lower Bod-not including the shoulder) So, obviously, he won't peak til he's about 27+. When did MJ peak? Expect the same form Kobe.</div> I think at 27 MJ matured to the point where he wasn't thinking about saving his legs to do monster dunks on people. He was more concerned about winning. Are you trying to tell me that Kobe is saving his legs out there and not playing to his full potential? I don't think so. BTW I always thought MJ peaked when he was around 32-35, thats when he was a complete player who was virtually unguardable/unscorable due to his knowledge and overall ability. If Kobe peaks at 27, something has gone terribly wrong. Prime: Your first arguement said that Jordan is better than Kobe because he came first. Then you went on to say that Kobe was more clutch then Jordan??? Now you say that when Kobe peaks at 27 he will be the same as Jordan? C'mon man, make up your mind.
I never ever said MJ was better because he came first, I said he got the advantage, cuz he was the first of his kind to ever come along, second, I never seed he was LESS clutch than Kobe, I said Kobe has hit tough shots (Like PORTLAND) that MJ didn't unless you count Ehlo, (WOW), and I never said Kobe would b better at 27... Hed will def. not peak at 27, come to think of it... prob. mid 30's and he will still be great as ever at 39!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ANiMuS:</div><div class="quote_post">You're kind of losing your credibility in this argument by changing your claims post by post.</div> You hit it right on the head Animus. Hey, change your sig, it looks ugly. BTW Prime <font size="1">(and these are my last thoughts in this thread) </font><font size="2">Have you seen Jordan play one game in your life? I'm guessing that because you brought up that Ehlo shot that has been replayed over and over again by the NBA. To say that Kobe has hit tougher clutch shots then Jordan (based on that highlight) just goes to show that you have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to Jordan. Jordan was clutch before there was ever a term for "clutch". </font> <font size="2"></font> <font size="2">And please watch your spelling next time you post. Read the guidelines.</font>
The difference between Kobe and Jordan is that Jordan was the leader on his team, Kobe isn't. Jordan led by example on both ends of the floor, Jordan pushed his teammates and made them better. Offensively they're pretty close, but Jordan is far better defensively and he ACTUALLY EARNS his spot on the NBA FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSE!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">I never ever said MJ was better because he came first, I said he got the advantage, cuz he was the first of his kind to ever come along, second, I never seed he was LESS clutch than Kobe, I said Kobe has hit tough shots (Like PORTLAND) that MJ didn't unless you count Ehlo, (WOW), and I never said Kobe would b better at 27... Hed will def. not peak at 27, come to think of it... prob. mid 30's and he will still be great as ever at 39!</div> You truly don't know alot about Jordan's career do you?
i would have to say that Kobe does have some of jordan's charectaristics. but nothing Kobe did or will do with his "skills" will ever live up to what jordan did with his "skills" . think of it this way: take away all the championships, all the stats and ALL the hype. ur the head coach of the team and u have jordan and kobe on your team. (for the sake of the argument) let's say that they are both playing in their "prime". your down by one.....who do u give it to?.... i think the answer is really really easy. BUT this only proves my point that jordan was a better clutch shooter. u cant say take away the stats and compare the skills. it's not logical skills are what make stats. the rings thing does make sense cause kobe's career hasn't ended yet but stats in general is stupid to "take away" Michael Jordan was voted the basketball athelete of the century(post the link later on today). keep that in mind when bringing up subjects like this.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">I never ever said MJ was better because he came first, I said he got the advantage, cuz he was the first of his kind to ever come along, second, I never seed he was LESS clutch than Kobe, I said Kobe has hit tough shots (Like PORTLAND) that MJ didn't unless you count Ehlo, (WOW), and I never said Kobe would b better at 27... Hed will def. not peak at 27, come to think of it... prob. mid 30's and he will still be great as ever at 39!</div> i agree with Dre u apparently don't know <strike>shit</strike> about Jordan. what do u mean jordan couldn't hit "tough shots" ????? please explain so i try to understand whether ur insane or mislead nobody has done or will do anything near to what jordan did in his career http://www.toppics4u.com/michael-jordan/awards.html
I never said he couldn't hit tough shots people... Read correctly... When you read, do you accidentally skip some words or do you do it on purpose?
i think the differnece in this point of Kobe's career is that he still tends to be a little selfish at times...Kobe doesn't always understand what's good for the team and until he becomes a true team player, it will be difficult for him to achieve the same successes as Jordan did
