<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said he couldn't hit tough shots people... Read correctly... When you read, do you accidentally skip some words or do you do it on purpose?</div> well,if other people skip words does that mean you post without knowing what it is you post about? anyways..... what you said was..and I quote.. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post"> I said Kobe has hit tough shots (Like PORTLAND) that MJ didn't unless you count Ehlo</div> ..and by saying that you are saying the only shot MJ made that could compare to Kobe was the shot he had against the Cavs over Craig Ehlo. Furthermore by saying that you discredit yourself and the argument you are making. If I was going to compare the two players I would make sure I knew as much as I could about MJ's career before I did so,and by reading your posts you clearly don't know alot about Jordan or the shots he has made.
Yea really...its one thing to make false claims, but it's another to take shots at people and try to back up your "points" after others have clearly pointed out their faults.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PrimeTime:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said he couldn't hit tough shots people... Read correctly... When you read, do you accidentally skip some words or do you do it on purpose?</div> How many times did your mom drop you as a child?
Um, hello guy's...................... I didn't have time to read every single post in the thread (that's alot!), and I hope no one has said this yet (I'm sure someone has). Jordan is argued as the best player EVER to play, Kobe is argued to be the best player ON HIS TEAM. > Kobe missed free throws in a close game and has airballed his share of game-ending shots. Jordan would bring it every minute of every game on D and offensively. Jordan played with a team of role player's and made them look like STARS. I love Pip but he was and always will be a role player but playing with Jordan made him look better and made him want to be better, same with Kukoc and alot of these other role players that were on the team. Jordan's teammates wanted to play with him because they were better competitor's around him. Kobe doesn't do that for his teammates. > Oh yeah, Kobe has Shaq and "role" players that were all-stars on their former teams. > Kobe has to change, not his game or his skillz, but in his head and heart. > MJ was a god and he had buzzer beater's that were forgotten for grander one's, MJ by a mile and Kobe still has alot of growing up to do.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting madddawg11:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't have time to read every single post in the thread (that's alot!), > Kobe missed free throws in a close game and has airballed his share of game-ending shots. Jordan would bring it every minute of every game on D and offensively. > MJ was a god and he had buzzer beater's that were forgotten for grander one's, MJ by a mile and Kobe still has alot of growing up to do.</div> I haven't read all the post either, not enough time.. so forgive me if people have already been saying this. On topic: Excuse me? Michael Jordan would tell you that he missed more Buzzer beaters then he has made... even tho noone believes him. (Kobe is 25 and has already made some very memorable buzzer beaters, including two that I can think of just from this season.) I really hate excuses, but if Kobe could palm the -FILTERED- out of the basketball like Jordan does, then maybe he would actually have enough controll of the ball to shoot it? Jordan has control, Kobe does by doing the impossible. (Try shooting the ball when your finger doesn't even go halfway across the ball in shooting position.) Edit: How is MJ God? damn... I hate it when people who have never even seen him play make such stupid comments, MJ made mistakes just like every other athlete. And yes, some stupid.
I am pretty tired of people comparing players. They were both good. So, why bother figuring out who's better?
I haven't read all the posts... but I'm sure this has been said. I think the big difference is their ability to lead their teams. Jordan commanded respect, and his players followed him. It's totally different with Kobe. Kobe doesn't lead the Lakers in my opinion, especially right now. Players bicker and complain sometimes and you have personalities that conflict. I know that every team has conflicting personalities, but the Lakers seem to be much more public about it than others. Also their games are a bit different, but at the same time there isn't a defensive player who can stop them. I think Jordan was more consistent too. He was there night in and night out. If either one was on my team though.... they would be the ones to take the last shot of the game.
No way Kobe matches up to MJ. Kobe and Shaq aren't as dominant as MJ and scottie....never Kobe isn't playing with Magic Johnson or Larry Bird around and if he was, i dont think he will be as great as he is now. He will still be a good player no doubt but not a player that can match up to MJ no way
WOW. THis Thread just goes On and On and On and On and On.............. Kobe ------------- MJ Who's better? well............ I think even 50 years from now, when they are celebrating 100th Anniversary of NBA Basketball and they are anaylzing every great player that ever played... MJ will be regarded as "THE ONE". Kobe, yea he might be right up there maybe the best 10 or 20. But I know that SHAQ will be up there right with him.. I just know MJ will be thought of as AT LEAST top 3, if not number one (Bill russel might snatch it from MJ for more rings). THat says it all. When it comes down to it, MJ will always be the basketball god, PERIOD.
People, why can't u realize that falling in love with Kobe doesn't mean breaking up with Michael? Michael is hands down the greatest to ever play the game....so far. Kobe's career has not ended yet so maybe down the line in about 10-12 years we could start comparing them. Its unfair for both of them. Jordan has completed his career and has so many accomplishments; it wouldn't be just to compare him with a player who hasn't even completed half of his career. Kobe hasn't finished his career yet, so its not fair to compare their stats, accolades, etc. because he still has a lotta years left in him. So lets just end this topic, since there are circumstances that makes it impossible to compare eachother.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JLee348:</div><div class="quote_post">People, why can't u realize that falling in love with Kobe doesn't mean breaking up with Michael? </div> U stole that line from Rick Reilly That was a great article btw...
kobe krazy just cause your bias doesn't mean u have to be stupid. Watch games of Jordan in the Eighties, he can do what Kobe does now but ten times better. Kobe has always had Shaq, yeah he is awesome. But MJ is amazing, if he hadn't have come back with the Wizards this thread wouldn't even exist. People forget he had been retired for over a year and he was 40. Come on give the legend a break.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pidandsid:</div><div class="quote_post">kobe krazy just cause your bias doesn't mean u have to be stupid. Watch games of Jordan in the Eighties, he can do what Kobe does now but ten times better. Kobe has always had Shaq, yeah he is awesome. But MJ is amazing, if he hadn't have come back with the Wizards this thread wouldn't even exist. People forget he had been retired for over a year and he was 40. Come on give the legend a break.</div> I'm not biased, have you noticed that I have never said who is "better"? Of course Michael Jordan is better, in other words, if Kobe's career ended right now then MJ would have more accomplishments. But c'mon man, like several have said, its unfair to compare the two. What annoys me is that people think he is God. I have seen him play in the 80's, he had some brilliant games, and some TERRIBLE.. like every other athlete.. of course nooone remembers his bad games, just his good ones. I've seen Jordan miss his first.. god.. 11 shots? before.. then come on fire and make the next 6 or so, and its like everyone worships him. Edit: At the same time i've seen MJ make what would seem his first 20 shots , my point is, he isn't God. Thank you. Also, the last thing I have to say in this debate is: Kobe's only problem is he isn't as consisent as Jordan was.
NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (1996) Member of six NBA championship teams (1991-93, 1996-98) Five-time NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991-92, 1996, 1998) Six-time NBA Finals Most Valuable Player (1991-93, 1996-98) Ten-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98) All-NBA Second team (1985) Nine-time NBA All-Defensive First Team (1987-93, 1996-98) NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988) NBA Rookie of the Year (1985) NBA All-Rookie Team (1985) Two-time IBM Award winner, for all-around contribution to team's success (1985, 1989) Three-time NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988, 1996, 1998) Participated in 11 NBA All-Star Games (1985, 1987-1993, 1996-98), starting 10 times, and missed another due to injury Holds the NBA All-Star Game career record for highest scoring average (21.3 ppg) Recorded only triple-double in All-Star Game history, with 14 points, 11 rebounds and 11 assists, in the 1997 NBA All-Star Game in Cleveland Won the Nestle Crunch Slam Dunk in 1987 and 1988, also participating in 1985 Passed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to become the NBA's all-time leading playoff scorer (5,762 points) during the 1998 Eastern Conference Finals Passed Dennis Johnson into fourth place on the NBA's all-time playoff assists list (1,006), in an 88-83 victory over the Indiana Pacers in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals in 1997-98 Scored his 29,000th career point, posting a game-high 41 points, 6 rebounds and 4 assists, in a 107-93 win over the Minnesota Timberwolves on 4/3 Broke Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's NBA record by scoring in double-digits for the 788th consecutive game, scoring a game-high 33 points, against the Minnesota Timberwolves on 12/30/97 Scored a career-high 69 points in a 117-113 overtime win at Cleveland on 3/28/90 Chicago Bulls all-time leader in scoring (29,277 points), assists (5,012) and steals (2,306) Holds the NBA record for most seasons leading league in scoring -- 10; highest points per game average (minimum 400 games or 10,000 points) -- 31.5; most seasons leading league in field goals made -- 10; and most seasons leading league in field goals attempted -- 10 Shares the NBA career record for most seasons with 2,000 or more points -- 11; and most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring --7 (1986-87 through 1992-93) Holds single-game records for most free throws made in one half -- 20 (December 30, 1992, at Miami); and most free-throws attempted in one half -- 23 (December 30, 1992, at Miami) Shares single-game records for most free throws made in one quarter -- 14 (December 30, 1992, at Miami); and most free-throws attempted in one quarter -- 16 (December 30, 1992, at Miami) Holds the NBA Finals record for highest single-series scoring average -- 41.0 ppg (1993) Holds NBA Finals record for most three-point field goals made -- 42; and most consecutive games with 20 or more points -- 35 (June 2, 1991-June 14, 1998) Holds the NBA Finals single-game record for most points in one half -- 35 (June 3, 1992 vs. Portland) Shares NBA Finals single-game records for most field goals made in one half -- 14; and most three-point field goals made in one half -- 6 (June 3, 1992, vs. Portland); most free throws made in one quarter -- 9 (June 11, 1997 vs. Utah); and most free throws attempted in one half -- 15 (June 4, 1997, vs. Utah) Holds the NBA Playoffs record for most points -- 5,987; highest points-per-game average (minimum 25 games or 625 points) -- 33.4 ppg; most field goals attempted -- 4,497; most free throws made -- 1,463; most free throws attempted -- 1,766; and most steals -- 376 Scored a career playoff-high 63 points against the Boston Celtics on 4/20/86, setting an NBA record for most points in a playoff game Holds single-game playoff records for most free throws made in one quarter -- 13; and most free throws attempted in one quarter -- 14 (May 21, 1991, vs. Detroit) Shares single-game playoff records for most field goals made -- 24 (May 1, 1998, vs. Cleveland); most field goals attempted in one half -- 25 (May 1, 1988, vs. Cleveland); and most three-point field goals made in one half -- 6 (June 6, 1992, vs. Portland) Recorded two playoff career triple-doubles, both against the New York Knicks (May 9, 1989 and June 2, 1993) Notched 28th career triple-doubles, the last being a 30 point, 11 rebound and 10 assist effort against the Toronto Raptors on 4/14/97 Member of the gold-medal-winning U.S. Olympic team (1984, 1992) As a freshman at the University of North Carolina, hit the game-winning shot in the 1982 NCAA Championship game Named College Player of the Year by The Sporting News in both 1983 and 1984 and won the Naismith and Wooden Awards in 1984 **These are the stats for MJ's career. Let's see how in 10 years from now, Kobe matches up with these accolades.. Let's hope that Kobe can accommplish 1/3 of these stats. So in 10 years lets see what happens. So keep these stats in hand..
I didn't mean to offend you sparky........... > First of all using the word God isn't the same as saying someone is A god. >Second of all, of course he's made mistakes, he's human (barely) but his mistakes were made with the good of the TEAM in mind. Kobe still needs to learn that and don't say he does cuz if he did then he wouldn't even be thinking about leaving LA. Problem is that KB-8 is still a kid trying to get his props when all he has to do is put "trusting his teammates" in witht the rest of his already beautiful game. >Oh, and if you can name a few more "stupid" mistakes that Jordan made other than that Orlando incident I'd give you props, It's gotta be more than one though. Oh yeah, you can ask your friends I don't mind. KOBE NEED'S TO CHANGE IN HIS HEART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! then the real MJ fans will fall for him too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok let me break it down the best i know how: scoring-obviously jordan wins this hands down....i cant count how many times michael scored fifty, but kobe has only done it a hand full of times...four or five at most...jordan was more conistent offensively and more dominant....kobe's best is averaging 30.0 ppg last season and this season he is at 24.0 ppg...at the same age was averaging 37.1 ppg in 86 and 35.0 ppg in 87....not to mention in his second year, without a decent support cast, he went on to score 63 points on birds celtics in the playoffs. defense-jordan again obviously wins here...he had quicker hands and played with more intensity...players will often put up twenty against kobe...people seem to forget that michael jordan is the best perimeter defender we've seen...he was named defensive player of the year the same year he averaged 37 points a game...that as in jordans third season......kobe has never done either of those things yet and this is his 8th season. three point shooting-people have been saying kobe is a better shooter from the long range which statistically doesnt add up...early in jordans career he was not a great three pointer shooter but by the time he came back into the league after his first retirement he went on to shoot .427 percent from three point land...kobe bryan this season had a field goal percentage of only .438....jordan almost shot as well from three point land that year and kobe shot from anywhere this year!....how can you look past this??...his first three years and his years in chicago make his overall three point percentage at .327 but without those years he'd be around a thirty five percent three point shooter....kobe right now is at .331 lifetime...and who knows how well he'll shoot from there once his legs start to go. field goal percentage-mj by a long shot...michael at his best shot 54 percent and kobe at his best shot 47 percent...if you want to say that kobe is still young than consider that michael at 25 was shooting .538 from the field while at 25 kobe's field goal percentage was .438 this season...and then last season it was still at a low .451 percent compared to michael. passing-at twenty five michael averaged 8 assists per game during the 88-89 season...kobe averaged 5.1 this season at the age of 25...enough said. rebounding-at the same age that kobe is this year, 25, michael averaged 8 rebounds per game while kobe averaged 5.5 per game this season. ball handling-this one is a little unfair because early in his career kobe didnt have a ton of minutes or handle the ball much...not until the 98-99 season did he see substantial minutes....and in chicago the entire offense was run through jordan.....but even still with it being very uneven the edge goes to jordan because he still only averaged 2.60 turnovers per game compared to kobe's 2.69 free throws-jordan career=.835% and kobe is at .834%....jordans percentage was even better before he came back because he only shot about eighty percentage from the foul line with washington...jordan in his third year shot .857% while kobe's best so far was this season with .852%...again jordan has the edge. blocking-jordan in his fourth year averaged 1.6 blocks per game while kobe's best year was 1.0 blocks per game back in 98...jordan lifetime was .83 bpg and kobe is at .62 right now. stealing-jordan in the same year he averaged 1.6 bpg averaged 3.16 steals per game, and this was in only his fourth season at roughly age 25 or 26...kobe's best season for steals so far was last year, his seventh season, with 2.21 steals per game...lifetime michael is at 2.35 spg while kobe is at 1.47...again this one goes towards michael. all around-if you add all this together what do you get???the answer that tells you kobe bryant is nowhere near jordan....even at the same age michael was a much better player all around....in his fifth season(he would have been 25 or 26)...michael averaged 32.5 ppg, 8.0 assists per game, and 8.0 rebounds per game, while shooting .538 from the field...kobe during his BEST year so far (if we were comparing them at the same age i'd use this year, but that'd just be extremely unfair cause kobe didnt play well this year) averaged 30.0 ppg, 5.9 assists per game, and 6.9 rebounds per game, while shooting .451 from the field...besides the low field goal percentage this would be comparable to michael on an AVERAGE year for jordan....you forget by the age of twenty five jordan had already averaged 37 points per game, been named rookie of the year, defensive player of the game, been league mvp ('88), been on the all nba first team twice, all defensive first team (88), an olympic gold medalist, been all star game mvp....this would have been AMAZING for anyone else's lifetime achievements...but michael had done all of this before 25....so please dont say that kobe at twenty five is even comparable to jordan and 25....cause he's not, not even close. leadership-no question its michael...michael was the bulls and was respected by his teammates throughout his career like no one else....kobe could still develope this but hasnt yet, doesnt get the same respect that michael got even at the same age. clutch-everyone knows this is going towards jordan....he is known for the clutch shots....his shot over ehlo, his shot to win game 6 in 97, his shot to win it all over byron russell in 98....michael jordan was mr.bigshot...kobe is clutch but hasnt hit the big playoff shots like jordan time in and time out....jordan hit countless buzzer beaters during the season and kobe has hit a handful but jordan came through in the playoffs much more than kobe has of late.......kobe was really awful in last years playoffs.. attendance...michael jordan played in eighty or more games 10 out of 13 seasons while with the bulls....this includes the broken foot season where he could only play in 18 games and the year he returned mid season so he could only play in 17 games....the only season left he played in 78 games...in eight years kobe has only played in eighty or more games twice.......this just goes to show you that no matter what michael showed up every night it was humanly possible and was driven to compete every night. ok well im really much too tired to continue with this.......to me, there is no comparison....if jordan faced kobe today he'd make him look worse than clyde drexler in the 92 finals.......i mean come on, this really isnt up for debate.....in fifteen years kobe wont be compared to michael because it will be obvious that jordan is still in a league of his own.......kobe has done nothing so far besides win three championships to put him in the same sentence as michael....end of story.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dannyg:</div><div class="quote_post">three point shooting-people have been saying kobe is a better shooter from the long range which statistically doesnt add up...early in jordans career he was not a great three pointer shooter but by the time he came back into the league after his first retirement he went on to shoot .427 percent from three point land...kobe bryan this season had a field goal percentage of only .438....jordan almost shot as well from three point land that year and kobe shot from anywhere this year!....how can you look past</div> Come on now, I know you're trying to argue for MJ, and I agree with most of what u said, but in this instance u are slanting it way too much towards MJ (if thats' even possible). While neither of them are great 3pt shooters, I think this is the one thing Kobe has a clear advantage over MJ on. MJ was never much of a 3pt shooter, that just wasn't a big part of his repetiore (and that's probably a good thing too)...That ONE SEASON where u pointed out MJ shot a high percentage, that was the year they move the 3pt line closer....once they moved the line back, he shot .238....Kobe <u>as a 17-18 year old rookie</u> shot .375 threes that year...that just shows how inflated those numbers are...
well i posted both's career lifetime stats....kobe is barely ahead, so i dont see the clear avantage i guess...jordan before his retirement shot 35 percent from three point range...which is better than what kobe has shot most of his seasons......everyone knows that mike had to learn to hit the long range shot but once he did he was deadly...oh and did they the move the line forward for two seasons????....cause he shot very well from the arc when he came back except his last season, and everyone knows once you get older and your legs start to give it makes it much harder to hit those long range shots. kobe IN his prime will be lucky to play like michael BEFORE his prime....he needs to learn to shoot better, play better defense, and make better decisions...his stats just dont add up to the argument........it just goes to show that now that michael is gone people are scrambling to find some sort of replacement.
I find it hard to believe how someone dares to compare Kobe to Michael. Michael in his 8th season was way better than Kobe in his 8th season. The 21 to 25 year old Michael was way better than Kobe, who's currently 25. I can't dictate Kobe in his late 20's to retirement since he hasn't even reached those stages, but I guarantee that he will never be on Michael's level of his late 20's to retirement unless Kobe does get his own team, and that might increase his chances of reaching the factual Greatest Player.
The difference?...... -Mj had a mental game..Understood the game so well -Mj was the better athelete and could do more things with his body Thats the difference..Its that simple
