Im asking a question not trying to prove a point!!!! So dont come in here bashing me....This basically goes out to those who seen him play...cause a lot of people havent seen him play and list him as one of the greats (Ive seen him on espn classic from time to time and it wasnt special). Is russell just like ben wallace but just taller or is he more like da dream wit out O, was he just that dominate on defense? People said he battled Wilt but Wilt still had 20 and 30 plus games against him. I know he won 10 rings but the league wasnt that big yet..so basically is Russell deserving of his spot or is he a lil bit overratted? Once again I have the upmost respect for those who paved the way.
I personally have not watched him play but his accolades speak for itself College <ul> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Four-year letter winner under Hall of Fame coach Phil Woolpert </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">All-America (1956) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Led San Francisco to back-to-back NCAA championships (1955, 1956) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Along with Hall of Fame teammate K.C. Jones, led USF to 55 straight wins and two straight undefeated seasons </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">USA Player of the Year (1956) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Scored 1,636 points (20.7 ppg) and grabbed 1,606 rebounds (20.3 rpg) in 79 games </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Two-time All-Conference, State, District and American </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">NCAA Most Outstanding Player (1955) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Member, gold medal-winning U.S. Olympic Team (1956)</font></font> [/list]Pro <ul> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Won an amazing 11 NBA championships with Boston Celtics in 13 seasons (1957, 1959-66, 1968-69) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">NBA Most Valuable Player (1958, 1961-63, 1965) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">All-NBA First Team (1959, 1963, 1965) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">All-NBA Second Team (1958, 1960-62, 1964, 1966-68) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">NBA All-Defensive First Team (1969) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Twelve-time NBA All-Star (1958-69) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">MVP All-Star Game (1963) after 19 points and 24 rebounds </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Holds the NBA single-game record for most rebounds in a half (32) vs. Philadelphia on Nov. 16, 1957 </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Celtics's all-time leading rebounder (21,620, 22.5 rpg) in 963 games; second best in history </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Holds career playoff record for most rebounds (4,104, 24.9 rpg) in 165 games </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Holds NBA Finals record for highest rebound per game average (29.5 rpg, 1959) and by a rookie (22.9 rpg, 1957) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Holds NBA Finals single-game record for most free throws attempted in one half (15, April 11, 1961) vs. St. Louis; most rebounds (40, March 29, 1960 vs. St. Louis and April 18, 1962 vs. Los Angeles); most rebounds by a rookie (32, April 13, 1967 vs. St. Louis); and most rebounds in a quarter (19, April 18, 1962 vs. Los Angeles) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Grabbed a career-high 51 rebounds vs. Syracuse (Feb. 5, 1960), making him one of two players ever (Wilt Chamberlain) to grab more than 50 boards in a game </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Had seven games with 40 or more rebounds </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Led the NBA in rebounding in first three seasons (19.6, 22.7, 23.0) and five times overall </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Led the NBA in minutes played (1959, 42.5 mpg) and in 1965 (44.5 mpg) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Scored 14,522 points (15.1 ppg) in his career and averaged 16.2 ppg in 165 playoff games </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Declared Greatest Player in the History of the NBA by the Professional Basketball Writers Association of America (1980) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">NBA 25th Anniversary All-Time Team (1970) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">NBA 35th Anniversary All-Time Team (1980) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (1996) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Celtics retired his jersey number 6 </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Named "Sportsman of the Year" by Sports Illustrated (1968)</font></font> [/list]Pro Coaching <ul> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Led Boston to NBA championships (1968, 1969) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Seattle lost to Phoenix in Western Conference semifinals (1976) </font></font> [*]<font face="Arial"><font size="2">Compiled a 341-290 record (.540) in eight seasons</font></font> [/list]I think these speak for themself. Respect the past.
Won an amazing 11 NBA championships with Boston Celtics in 13 seasons (1957, 1959-66, 1968-69) That line can't be overrated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is russell just like ben wallace but just taller or is he more like da dream wit out O, was he just that dominate on defense?</div> The reason the intangibles that Ben Wallace possesses are now spotlighted, is solely because of Bill Russell. He's the reason they now keep track of blocks, etc. Yes, Wilt put up big numbers against Bill. However, you have to keep that in the context which puts Wilt as the Shaq of his day: A physical presence that simply had to be contained. No one was going to stop him. Bills got more rings than he has fingers to put them on. As far as the league comparisons go between the past and present: Everything has to start somewhere and the forefathers of the game deserve their credit too. After all, they are the people that players today have the luxury of studying tape and modeling thier play after. Just imagine if some of them had those kind of resources available to them?
Put it this way, worst case scenario, Bill Russell of almost 50 years ago is just the Ben Wallace of today right? As we all know, the game of basketball evolves and becomes more competitive as time goes on. To name just a few reasons: players get bigger, taller, stronger, jumps higher, more physical, and there are just more of them out there. To be ahead of everybody by 50 years is not an easy task. You just don't do that unless you're special. People may argue all day long that "Ben Wallace of today is just as good as Russell of the past" but that's as retarded of an argument as "Cars of today is better than cars of the past" (Some people might even argue that cars of the past is better. I would.) To shine today, you have to play like the future. That's why people say phrases like "He's ahead of his time." Bottom line is, just because someone finally caught up to the level Bill Russell played in 50 years ago doesn't mean he is overrated.
<u>SupraJames:</u> I'll have to start reading more of your posts, because that was a damn fine manner of expressing many of the truly important points involved in the issue. :thumbsup:
holy crap....i always knew bill russel and wilt avg alot of rebounds....but how can they get 51..boards a game..thats ...crazy....considering my fav team raps...don't even avg 50 boards a game lol....can someone explain ?
definately not,after winning 11 championships no one should be called overrated. and the stats above tell the story, if someone is in the hall of fame they shouldn't be called overrated.
i too have personally never seen him play, but he was the anchor of a great winning tradition...11 championships speaks for itself...
Heck no, this man is a legend. He accomplished so many things, he was in a tougher boat than Ben Wallace and Rodman at the time. He was the only guy truly allowed and who could take on Wilt Chamberlain. Bill Russell was unsersized yet amazing at what he did.
Bill Russell is one of the greatest players and will be one of the greatest players forever. Im to young to have actually seen the games, but from what I heard and from the old basketball clips Ive seen, hes a incredible player. I dont think anybody else would be able to have 11 championships as a <u>STAR</u> on the same team ever again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Magic Johnson:</div><div class="quote_post">Heck no, this man is a legend. He accomplished so many things, he was in a tougher boat than Ben Wallace and Rodman at the time. He was the only guy truly allowed and who could take on Wilt Chamberlain. Bill Russell was unsersized yet amazing at what he did.</div> I love Bill as much as anyone but this is a common misconception that I've seen. Bill never could do much with Wilt one-on-one. Wilt usually had his way with Bill and took him to the hole at will and usually put a hamper on Bill's O as well..I mean Wilt was just too big,too quick and too strong for Bill to guard by himself. Regardless tho Bill was on a better team 90% of the time and they usually took it to whoever Wilt was with.
Its also worth mentioning that Russell was the one constant on the floor for Boston through all 11 championships. Even after guys like Cousy and Sharman retired, Russell was still winning titles... the year after Russell retired, the Celts won about 30 games and didn't win another title until the 80's.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I mean Wilt was just too big,too quick and too strong for Bill to guard by himself</div> As i mentioned in a previous post, you have to keep that in perspective. Wilt was unequivocally the Shaq of his day. No one could stop him one on one. Sadly, Bill did some of the best work in slowing him down and you can see how well that went. Using the matchups of Wilt vs Bill to quantify Bill's greatness is fair to some degree, but doesn't paint a complete picture. It would be like saying that Tim Duncan isn't great because he can't stop Shaq one on one.
One thing that has to be taken into consideration about the 11 titles is that teams then were completely LOADED. And no team had a bigger market than Boston. Everyone wanted to play for Boston, and Boston acquired everyone they could. They were the title favorites year after year not simply because of Bill Russell, but because they always had the best players to begin with. When the 50 Greatest of All Time list was compiled in 1996, I think something like 1/3 of the guys on that list made their names as Celtics.
My father used to watch Russell in the 60's. He said that Bill Russell was the best defender you will ever see. He proved a fact that defense wins championships and that fact still exists. He won 11 championships in 13 years, out of the 16 Boston Celtics championships. Now that's a lot of rings.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">As i mentioned in a previous post, you have to keep that in perspective. Wilt was unequivocally the Shaq of his day. No one could stop him one on one. Sadly, Bill did some of the best work in slowing him down and you can see how well that went. Using the matchups of Wilt vs Bill to quantify Bill's greatness is fair to some degree, but doesn't paint a complete picture. It would be like saying that Tim Duncan isn't great because he can't stop Shaq one on one. </div> exactly. By saying that i was in no way taking away from Bill. Wilt was just unstoppable and in his day no one could guard him one on one. Like you said,Bill did some of the best work in slowing him down.
