Should "The Glove" Be Put In Storage?? With the inconsistency of Gary Payton throughout the 2004 playoffs, and with his defenders blowing past him on defense, should Gary Payton be benched for Derek Fisher? Gary has shown that he's no longer considered to be the offensive and defensive threat he once was, and it seems like with his erratic style of play lately, that kind of performance night in and night out should earn you a spot on the bench? Give me your opinions on this.
I think there is nothing wrong with GP's game I think his years are catching up to him though.I mean everytime I watch the Lakers someone beats GP and he ends up fouling them.
Leave him in as a starter, he will wreak havoc on our team as a bench player, and he has been the starter all year long, no need to change it now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">With the inconsistency of Gary Payton throughout the 2004 playoffs, and with his defenders blowing past him on defense, should Gary Payton be benched for Derek Fisher? Gary has shown that he's no longer considered to be the offensive and defensive threat he once was, and it seems like with his erratic style of play lately, that kind of performance night in and night out should earn you a spot on the bench? Give me your opinions on this.</div> That's exactly what I was saying in the Lakers/Spurs Game 1 thread. Gary Payton doesn't have it anymore. He's done. At his age, I wouldn’t expect him to be the same defensive player he once was. But not only has his defense diminish from his game but his offensive decreased dramatically. Tony Parker is toying with him out there. When you think about it. There is no real legit PG out there that Gary Payton CAN guard. His best bet is Kevin Ollie. I've also suggested before that it would benefit the Lakers best if he came off the bench. When you look on paper and you see the name GARY PAYTON. You know most likely that you have the PG spot set and ready to go. But that’s no longer the case. GP is getting his butt handed by TP. And there is nothing he can do. I think its time to but The Glov...I mean The Mitten in storage. GP is done!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">That's exactly what I was saying in the Lakers/Spurs Game 1 thread. Gary Payton doesn't have it anymore. He's done. At his age, I wouldn?t expect him to be the same defensive player he once was. But not only has his defense diminish from his game but his offensive decreased dramatically. Tony Parker is toying with him out there. When you think about it. There is no real legit PG out there that Gary Payton CAN guard. His best bet is Kevin Ollie. I've also suggested before that it would benefit the Lakers best if he came off the bench. When you look on paper and you see the name GARY PAYTON. You know most likely that you have the PG spot set and ready to go. But that?s no longer the case. GP is getting his butt handed by TP. And there is nothing he can do. I think its time to but The Glov...I mean The Mitten in storage. GP is done!</div> And to top off that excellent statement, do you remember during the ballgame that spin move Parker put on Payton? heck, that was the exact move payton put on his defenders in his earlier days. Now he's having his moves being handed to him. How pathetic and embarrassing.
If he keeps playing like this I'm going to have to start calling him the "The Mitten". But benching Payton at this point would be a kneejerk reaction at best. I think he's earned a little benefit of the doubt to finish off this series. He didn't play bad, just a off day. Fisher is not going to be any better believe me. He just needs to realize that this series is riding on his shoulders, not just in terms of his defense and scoring, but his overall attitude about the system and teammates. He's got to become the emotional leader, fill the role and do what's best for the team. And if that means he's not holding the ball that often or creating as much as he he likes then so be it.
GP cannot hang with Parker, that's obvious...but what laker can? As much as I like D-fish, I think GP is the better option...It would be ideal to have Rush out on the floor more, but I think you have to stick with GP, no matter what...he might not be a great option, but he's our best one...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting notMuchgame:</div><div class="quote_post">GP cannot hang with Parker, that's obvious...but what laker can? As much as I like D-fish, I think GP is the better option...It would be ideal to have Rush out on the floor more, but I think you have to stick with GP, no matter what...he might not be a great option, but he's our best one...</div> I agree, that's how I also feel. I still do think Gary does play better D on him than Fisher can. Even in that last game I noticed a couple of plays where he actually played good defense. If he can do it consistently with a little more energy I think it would help a real lot, he doesn't even seem like he's trying half of the time. I really do believe he's holding back a little, both on the defensive end and offensive end.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And to top off that excellent statement, do you remember during the ballgame that spin move Parker put on Payton? heck, that was the exact move payton put on his defenders in his earlier days. Now he's having his moves being handed to him. How pathetic and embarrassing.</div> Oh I've seen it thats for sure. And what did Gary Payton do? The only thing he can do...FOUL. Not only did Tony Parker make the layup he got to the line and hit the FT. Lakers cannot win if this continues. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">GP cannot hang with Parker, that's obvious...but what laker can? As much as I like D-fish, I think GP is the better option...It would be ideal to have Rush out on the floor more, but I think you have to stick with GP, no matter what...he might not be a great option, but he's our best one...</div> I see what your saying. Its true NO Laker can guard Tony Parker. But I'd rather have Derek Fisher on him. Derek Fisher is alot more anticipating for whats going to happen next. He's basically more into the series that Gary Payton. I just can't say it enough. Gary Payton is done. He's not providing the Lakers with nothing at all not on the defensive end nor the offensive end. Maybe playing the leadership type of role would help. But thats just not happening. Just look at the stats from Game 1; <u>Gary Payton</u> Points- 8 FG- 1-8 Rebounds- 4 Assists- 3 Steals- 1 Turnovers- 2 <u>Tony Parker</u> Points- 20 FG- 8-19 Rebounds- 4 Assists- 9 Steals- 3 Turnovers- 1
^ well I think we all expected Payton would be killed by almost every PG he played point wise because of playing with Kobe, Shaq and Malone but one thing that really has disappointed me this yera is his assist numbers. I know the triangle offense spreads the ball a lot so its harder to get assists, but I didn't think it would make that significant impact on his numbers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh I've seen it thats for sure. And what did Gary Payton do? The only thing he can do...FOUL. Not only did Tony Parker make the layup he got to the line and hit the FT. Lakers cannot win if this continues. I see what your saying. Its true NO Laker can guard Tony Parker. But I'd rather have Derek Fisher on him. Derek Fisher is alot more anticipating for whats going to happen next. He's basically more into the series that Gary Payton. I just can't say it enough. Gary Payton is done. He's not providing the Lakers with nothing at all not on the defensive end nor the offensive end. Maybe playing the leadership type of role would help. But thats just not happening. Just look at the stats from Game 1; <u>Gary Payton</u> Points- 8 FG- 1-8 Rebounds- 4 Assists- 3 Steals- 1 Turnovers- 2 <u>Tony Parker</u> Points- 20 FG- 8-19 Rebounds- 4 Assists- 9 Steals- 3 Turnovers- 1</div> Whoo looking at those numbers tell me why I'm not looking up players stats anymore. 3 assist, and it's official. GP is now the Mitten. His game has diminished so drastically it's unbelievable. But I still say that he could put alot more pressure on TP on the offensive end though and at least get around 7 assists if your not scoring geesh. + ppl's are right about if they put him on the bench that he would be disruptive and totally mess whatever team chemistry is left. He surprisingly hasn't griped about not playing in the 4th quarter from the last series and I know that's still wandering in his head. If he were to get benched, he'd most likely explode and forget about a championship for the Lakers this year as well.
No way GP should be benched....i know he isn't the same player he used to be but GP at half is still better than Fisher at Full he's struggling these playoffs but he was fine in the regular season (15pts, 5asts), which causes me to think that he's just in a slump and lost some of his confidence he'll be fine, and people will stop questioning his ability
None of us should be surprised Parker is having his way with Gary Payton. He's been doing it since his rookie season when Payton was still with the Sonics. What the Lakers need to do is play Parker the way they played Jason Kidd a couple years ago in the NBA Finals. The Lakers need to force the ball out of Parker's hands with double teams and defenders flashing at him. The Lakers need to make other players beat them on the court, like Bruce Bowen. Instead of letting Duncan and Parker get easy looks, put the pressure on Bowen to take 15 shots a game and make a high percentage on them. The main problem I've seen is Shaq not stepping out on the pick and rolls, and not anticipating fast enough on the help defense. If Payton cannot stay in front of Parker then he should at least force him towards the strength of the defense causing a tougher shot.
Yeah Payton isnt the only pg that cant guard Tony Parker from what I remember in last years finals Parker did the same thing to J-Kidd.I really dont think Payton would accept coming off the bench he is to stubborn.
Even though stats really don't prove the greatness of a player it is the way the player plays. ( my coach told me that! YAY) Payton is , in my openion, the greated PG ever, his just tierd and wants a ring, I really hope he gets it though, mellon and Payton really diserve it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No way GP should be benched....i know he isn't the same player he used to be but GP at half is still better than Fisher at Full he's struggling these playoffs but he was fine in the regular season (15pts, 5asts), which causes me to think that he's just in a slump and lost some of his confidence he'll be fine, and people will stop questioning his ability</div> Well in the Playoff's against the defending champions. Right now, wouldn’t be a good time for him to be struggling. And we can hope that he can get back to playing his regular game. If not...It's going to hurt the Lakers. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">None of us should be surprised Parker is having his way with Gary Payton. He's been doing it since his rookie season when Payton was still with the Sonics. What the Lakers need to do is play Parker the way they played Jason Kidd a couple years ago in the NBA Finals. The Lakers need to force the ball out of Parker's hands with double teams and defenders flashing at him. The Lakers need to make other players beat them on the court, like Bruce Bowen. Instead of letting Duncan and Parker get easy looks, put the pressure on Bowen to take 15 shots a game and make a high percentage on them. The main problem I've seen is Shaq not stepping out on the pick and rolls, and not anticipating fast enough on the help defense. If Payton cannot stay in front of Parker then he should at least force him towards the strength of the defense causing a tougher shot.</div> I was just about to point that out. Shaq, isn’t helping Payton out on the pick and rolls. I was watching an encore presentation of the Spurs/Lakers Game 1 on NBA TV. And none of the Lakers players were helping out Payton on the pick and roll. It might be the fact that the Lakers are bad at defending the pick and roll. But regardless someone has to step out there and help Payton out. Now when I think about it you can't blame the Lakers misfortune entirely on Gary Payton. The others have to step up and help Payton out because the Spurs are taking advantage of the Lakers with that play. As for Payton trying to force Parker to the strenght of the defense. I doubt it would work. If does I think Parker would most likely take him off the dribble and attack Shaq or dish it out to Duncan in the paint.
well, if the Lakers decided to double team Parker...Pop can always go with Ginobili + Parker combo...now that'll will kill Lakers.
I think they should still start him and let him play more of his game then the triangle offense. Or if that dosen't work then I still think they should start him but play Fisher more, I just think if they benched him then he would complain and ruin our team chemistry if we still have any.
Phil Jackson needs to do a better job at playing Payton to his advantages, setting up some plays for him, exploiting the advantages that he has over Tony. Often times in the first quarter he would post up on Parker but Kobe wouldn't get him the ball. Whether it's Kobe's fault or Phil's fault, the Lakers aren't playing to their individual strengths, sticking with the restrictive triangle when they're better off with Payton running the break.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheGameShutDown:</div><div class="quote_post">Phil Jackson needs to do a better job at playing Payton to his advantages, setting up some plays for him, exploiting the advantages that he has over Tony. Often times in the first quarter he would post up on Parker but Kobe wouldn't get him the ball. Whether it's Kobe's fault or Phil's fault, the Lakers aren't playing to their individual strengths, sticking with the restrictive triangle when they're better off with Payton running the break.</div> I disagree with the strategy of abandoning the Triangle Offense. What Payton needs to do is learn to trust it and play within the Triangle. If he can restrain from wanting to take his defender 1 on 1 and have the patience for the Triangle to pass him the ball, he'll have a much easier time on the court. Both Shaq and Malone are great passers out of double teams, if Payton is patient enough to wait for them to get him the ball out of a double team he will have 3 options. Option 1, shoot a wide open jumper, Option 2, fake the defender rotating over and then penetrate to the basket, or Option 3, re-post either Shaq or Malone. For some reason Payton is either too, stubborn or not savvy enough to understand the offense. He needs to remember why he came to the Lakers, his role is to be a defender first, and the 3rd or 4th option on offense. Until he accepts his dimished role, he's going to continue to struggle with the Lakers.
