<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury ran the point well with Phoenix last season, guiding them to the playoffs. He can score when he wants to and still gets 20ppg despite 9apg. He is a more well-rounded guard than Steve Francis is. I think we have to trade Steve for someone who is a stable general on offense, not the turnover-prone disaster that Steve Francis is.</div> Ok, who had the better team last season the Rockets or Suns? I'd say the Suns had more talent yet they only won 1 more game than the Rockets did last season. That's with Rudy missing 10 or so games and management screwing up yet again in trading Kenny Thomas for James Posey. Anyway what happened to the Suns this season? No surprise there, the same thing happened in New Jersey and will probably happen in New York as well. Forget trading Francis, I don't think Van Gundy wants to do that at least not from his direct quotes, the media sure loves to run with that story though. What they need to do is inject more talent into this team, I mean look at the bench, is there a weaker bench in the NBA?
What happened to Phoenix was because of the injuries they suffered early in the season. You may be right about Stephon Marbury as a cancer, but a skilful cancer at that. I'd love to have him anyday.
12-22 is excused because of an Amare Stoudamire injury? They were under .500 with him anyway... The Suns and Nets thought they loved to have him to...
The suns last year without Marbury is a worse team than the Rockets of last year without Francis. Who did the Rockets have? Yao, Kenny Thomas, Mo Taylor, Posey, Moochie Norris, those are all pretty good role players, but Francis being a bad PG, wasn't able to lead his team and got beaten out by Phoenix from the playoffs. Phoenix basically has the same team this year w/o Marbury and Penny, but where are they now? Second rock BOTTOM of the Western conference right next to the Clippers. That's pathetic. They need Marbury to make the playoffs. Joe Johnson was a 20 5 and 5 guy this year but they still didn't make the playoffs. The only reason why the Rockets made the playoffs this year is because Yao improved and Jim Jackson was a nice addition to the team. Francis declined this year but we still made it. Marbury is a proven PG that can score as well as pass. I do not know anyone that would take Francis over Marbury in their team. It just doesn't make sense. I regard Marbury as one of the top 5 PG in the league. Francis is nowhere close to that. Just because Francis is an athlete freak that can dunk all over the place doesn't mean he's a great PG. Again, Francis would be a better SG than PG.
They should get guys like Damon Jones or Antonio Daniles, they are about 4.8 assist per turnover, compare to Steve's 1.8 assist per turnover, they are good. Plus both of them can shot threes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Out of those two McGinnis would be the best on offense because he can shoot, set up an offense and doesn't make many mistakes, but then he'd suck on defense... Miller would be great on defense and setting up an offense, but then he can't shoot... Hmm... Neither are worth trading Francis for...</div> McInnis is not a bad defender, he was the second best perimeter defender our of the Cavaliers guards, behind Kevin Ollie. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, who had the better team last season the Rockets or Suns? I'd say the Suns had more talent yet they only won 1 more game than the Rockets did last season. That's with Rudy missing 10 or so games and management screwing up yet again in trading Kenny Thomas for James Posey. Anyway what happened to the Suns this season? No surprise there, the same thing happened in New Jersey and will probably happen in New York as well. Forget trading Francis, I don't think Van Gundy wants to do that at least not from his direct quotes, the media sure loves to run with that story though. What they need to do is inject more talent into this team, I mean look at the bench, is there a weaker bench in the NBA?</div> Raptors, Phoenix Suns, Orlando, Atlanta, New Orleans
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">The suns last year without Marbury is a worse team than the Rockets of last year without Francis. Who did the Rockets have? Yao, Kenny Thomas, Mo Taylor, Posey, Moochie Norris, those are all pretty good role players, but Francis being a bad PG, wasn't able to lead his team and got beaten out by Phoenix from the playoffs. Phoenix basically has the same team this year w/o Marbury and Penny, but where are they now? Second rock BOTTOM of the Western conference right next to the Clippers. That's pathetic. They need Marbury to make the playoffs. Joe Johnson was a 20 5 and 5 guy this year but they still didn't make the playoffs. The only reason why the Rockets made the playoffs this year is because Yao improved and Jim Jackson was a nice addition to the team. Francis declined this year but we still made it. Marbury is a proven PG that can score as well as pass. I do not know anyone that would take Francis over Marbury in their team. It just doesn't make sense. I regard Marbury as one of the top 5 PG in the league. Francis is nowhere close to that. Just because Francis is an athlete freak that can dunk all over the place doesn't mean he's a great PG. Again, Francis would be a better SG than PG.</div> Are you serious? Lets look at the Suns starting 5, minus their point guards. Who would you rather have? Joe Johnson or Mobley? Penny or Mobley? Marion or Posey? Stoudamire or Griffin? Yao is the obvious choice over whoever was starting at C for them. I'd take Joe Johnson over Mobely, probably even Penny over him as well. Marion over Posey, Stoudamire over Griffin, Rockets had a pretty decent bench last season a little better than the Suns, that was the only advantages they had. Phoenix had a better team IMO, and they didn't have their head coach miss 10+ games in the middle of a playoff race. Funny how you mention the Clippers since they had a better record than the Suns when Marbury left, isn't that pathetic to? Francis had to sacrifice on offense, didn't adjust to a new offense as well as everyone else did, but he made up for it on the defensive end and the overall play of the team while he was on the floor, best +/- player on the team. Well there's a reason Marbury has been traded 3 times already and is probably in double digits when counting all the coaches that have been fired with him on the team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">McInnis is not a bad defender, he was the second best perimeter defender our of the Cavaliers guards, behind Kevin Ollie. Raptors, Phoenix Suns, Orlando, Atlanta, New Orleans</div> The McInnis it is... New Orleans bench has Darrel Armstrong, Steve Smith, David West, Stacey Augmon, and Robert Traylor. You're telling me that Mark Jackson, Eric Piakowski, Maurice Taylor, and Clearance Weatherspoon are better? Not counting the Hornets those other 4 teams probably didn't win a combined 100 games, hmm...
Baron and Wesley were injured a lot so Armstrong and Augmon were starter's for a fair amount, so let's say he (Armstrong) was their Maurice Taylor. West is sick, he was like Spoon for them. Augmon's an old man, still a good defender though, and Tractor I guess was their Padgett. Piatkowski and Steve Smith, both shooters and old men, did amost exactly the same. Nachbar did okay, and so did Tractor, but Tractor's better, but I guess Mark Jackson and Nachbar = Tractor. They both sucked
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you serious? Lets look at the Suns starting 5, minus their point guards. Who would you rather have? Joe Johnson or Mobley? Penny or Mobley? Marion or Posey? Stoudamire or Griffin? Yao is the obvious choice over whoever was starting at C for them. I'd take Joe Johnson over Mobely, probably even Penny over him as well. Marion over Posey, Stoudamire over Griffin, Rockets had a pretty decent bench last season a little better than the Suns, that was the only advantages they had. Phoenix had a better team IMO, and they didn't have their head coach miss 10+ games in the middle of a playoff race. Funny how you mention the Clippers since they had a better record than the Suns when Marbury left, isn't that pathetic to?</div> Yes... I mentioned the Clippers/Suns comparison for a reason... Think about it. They're so bad this year that they're in the bottom of the conference with the Clippers. They had almost the same team as last year, what does this tell you? This tells you that Marbury is such a good player that he was able to lift this team up last year and put them into playoff contention. I don't know how you don't see it. Anyways, Marbury or not comparison aside, do you honestly think that Steve Francis is a pure PG? Meaning he has great decision making skills? Knows how to set people up without turning the ball over half of the time? Does his antic streetball plays make you cringe? I sure as hell do. It's like a cardio exercise for me whenever I see Francis dribble the ball around 5 people and take ill-advised shots.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Baron and Wesley were injured a lot so Armstrong and Augmon were starter's for a fair amount, so let's say he (Armstrong) was their Maurice Taylor. West is sick, he was like Spoon for them. Augmon's an old man, still a good defender though, and Tractor I guess was their Padgett. Piatkowski and Steve Smith, both shooters and old men, did amost exactly the same. Nachbar did okay, and so did Tractor, but Tractor's better, but I guess Mark Jackson and Nachbar = Tractor. They both sucked</div> Come on now, you're grasping at straws with that, Baron and Wesley weren't injured that much to say Armstrong and Augmon were starters. Steve Smith and Pike did not do the exact same thing, Pike had the worst shooting season of his career, while Smith was pretty much his old self. Nachbar did ok? He had probably 2 good games the whole season. To me the Hornets bench had way more than 1 solid productive player, the Rockets had just 1, Mo Taylor. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes... I mentioned the Clippers/Suns comparison for a reason... Think about it. They're so bad this year that they're in the bottom of the conference with the Clippers. They had almost the same team as last year, what does this tell you? This tells you that Marbury is such a good player that he was able to lift this team up last year and put them into playoff contention. I don't know how you don't see it. Anyways, Marbury or not comparison aside, do you honestly think that Steve Francis is a pure PG? Meaning he has great decision making skills? Knows how to set people up without turning the ball over half of the time? Does his antic streetball plays make you cringe? I sure as hell do. It's like a cardio exercise for me whenever I see Francis dribble the ball around 5 people and take ill-advised shots.</div> Yeah they're in the bottom with the Clippers, right where Marbury left them! Well actually the Clippers had already won 5 or so more games when Marbury was traded so they were even lower than the Clippers, some lifting eh? No Francis isn't a pure PG, but he's a PG and he's going to play PG. His decision making skills are my only complaint about him, who knows if you can improve those, as a Rocket fan I hope he does.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yeah they're in the bottom with the Clippers, right where Marbury left them! Well actually the Clippers had already won 5 or so more games when Marbury was traded so they were even lower than the Clippers, some lifting eh? No Francis isn't a pure PG, but he's a PG and he's going to play PG. His decision making skills are my only complaint about him, who knows if you can improve those, as a Rocket fan I hope he does.</div> Phoenix was in the playoffs last year with a season record of 44-38. This year without Marbury they're a pathetic 29-53. The Suns were 12-22 when Marbury left them and that is because Amare was injured at that time. The Clippers is actually a team that's capable of making it to the playoffs even out in the West if the players there have the heart and passion to do so. So them being on top of an Amare-less Suns (20.6ppg, 9rpg) doesn't surprise me any bit. Francis is not a PG and will never be one. If he stays there then it is the coaches' fault for not recognizing that he isn't a PG and that they should move him. As another Rockets fan I don't hope for someone to suddenly be able to play PG when he's not meant to be, I want the management to do smart moves and, among other things, that includes moving Francis out of the PG spot.
They were under .500 even with Amare... Van Gundy thinks he's a point guard and should stay at point guard, so he will... If you expect a smart move from management you're looking at the wrong team, when's the last time they even made one? Besides the no brainer in picking Yao...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">They were under .500 even with Amare... Van Gundy thinks he's a point guard and should stay at point guard, so he will... If you expect a smart move from management you're looking at the wrong team, when's the last time they even made one? Besides the no brainer in picking Yao...</div> A fan can hope can't he? It's not about whether I'm looking at the right team or not, it's about voicing my opinion as a fan. I can only hope that the management do things right. When Amare last played with Marbury they were 8-10. The suns of last year started sluggish too at 8-8 then 10-8 then 10-10, etc etc. It was basically the same thing this year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">A fan can hope can't he? It's not about whether I'm looking at the right team or not, it's about voicing my opinion as a fan. I can only hope that the management do things right. When Amare last played with Marbury they were 8-10. The suns of last year started sluggish too at 8-8 then 10-8 then 10-10, etc etc. It was basically the same thing this year.</div> My opinion is that he stays at PG, where he belongs, he isn't a great scorer like AI is, it would of been retarded for the Sixers to leave AI at point guard since he was BY FAR their best scorer and one of the best scorers in NBA history. In Houston Yao should be their best scorer, he isn't yet, at least not on a consistent basis, but he's getting better he just HAS to improve his fitness. Difference in last year's Phoenix team and this season's is that Marbury didn't get a coach fired early in the season and he wasn't asked to give up the rock more often. Look I heard once that if your team is horrible and your PG is playing great there's something wrong with your PG, since he left KG that has been Marbury every single season but one.
KG and Yao are not the same type player, not even close. I don't know how you make that comparison. We all know Yao needs to be fed in the post and that everyone around him needs to be better role players. Mobley is not a good role player, Francis is certainly not a role player, yeah sure if Francis has better decision making skills I'd be fine with him at the PG spot, but he doesn't make smart decisions, he doesn't direct the team correctly, he doesn't lead by example, all he does is streetball style and the Rockets are not a streetball type of a team. If Francis wants to play streetball, he can't do it in Houston. He'll need to go somewhere else or give up the PG spot.
I never compared Yao and KG... Yao is the #1 scoring option on the Rockets, he gets his touches but you'll never see much results when he's only playing 30 minutes a game. People need to stop with all that talk, he takes more shots per minute than any other Rocket, that's why I say he needs to work on his fitness, 30 minutes a night isn't going to cut it. You think Yao is ready to be surrounded with role players? Francis AND Yao are ready to be surrounded with role players, right now both of them need help to be successful. Hell Shaq has never been ready to succeed with only role players around him.
When you mentioned Marbury and KG I assumed you were indirectly comparing Yao and KG since we were talking about Marbury playing with Yao. Like I said, I am all for Francis staying in the Rockets. He's a good player and him with Yao can be something like the Kobe of Shaq, HOWEVER, he is not a damn Point Guard. I have no idea how many times I've said this, Francis never was and never will be a good point guard. He didn't play point guard in college and he shouldn't be playing point guard in the NBA. Look at Kobe, you think he can't handle the rock? Sure he can, then why isn't he playing point guard? Because he knows he's not gonna be as effective there as a PG. He's a SG and he knows it. I just wish Francis has that kind of smarts.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Like I said, I am all for Francis staying in the Rockets. He's a good player and him with Yao can be something like the Kobe of Shaq, HOWEVER, he is not a damn Point Guard. I have no idea how many times I've said this, Francis never was and never will be a good point guard. He didn't play point guard in college and he shouldn't be playing point guard in the NBA. Look at Kobe, you think he can't handle the rock? Sure he can, then why isn't he playing point guard? Because he knows he's not gonna be as effective there as a PG. He's a SG and he knows it. I just wish Francis has that kind of smarts.</div> Kobe can handle it, he?s not playing PG because he?s a better scorer than anything else, and because he?s a shooting guard, Francis is a better PG than scorer. If you want to look at a point guard in need of a position change it should be your boy Marbury, heck the Knicks already tried that move, since Penny played the point better.
