Ok, here's the guidelines: I want to know who in the draft you most covet for the Celtics, regardless of draft position. <font color="DarkGreen"><u>In other words:</u> Tell me who you would pick, if you could take anyone</font>.You MUST provide justification for taking that player and why the C's would benefit from having him. That's Part 1. Part 2 <font color="DarkRed">(fun only), </font> should you choose to accept the challenge, <font color="DarkGreen">is to come up with a Trade Idea to secure that player.</font> Please try to make it somewhat realistic. Everyone has a player they covet, but won't talk about because we may not/ can't get him with our current picks. I'd like to know what posters are thinking out there. Thanks and good posting!
Nice idea :thumbsup: The player I would like the Celtics to have in this years draft is Dwight Howard. He seems to be the only definite in this years draft. He's also a good fit at PF where the Celtics have no one except Hunter, who is more suited to be a backup. Howard could also play Center a little if he had to. Howard used to be a guard and has great ball handling for a big man. He would work well with Pierce, Davis, and Welsch on the perimeter. If Chicago gets the second pick and the team with the first pick will take Okafor I kind of like this trade: Boston Trades: Jumaine Jones, Michael Stewart, Chris Mihm, Ricky Davis, and Pick #15 Chicago Trades: Eddy Robinson, Eddy Curry, Marcus Fizer, and Pick #2 or If Phoenix gets the second pick: Boston Trades: Raef Lafrentz, Ricky Davis, 2 First Rounders Phoenix trades: Jahidi White, Howard Eisly, #2 Pick
BTW both work in RealGM's trade checker. They may be wishful thinking and not likely, but they both the team a much needed makeover. Chicago Trade Possible Lineup C- Eddy Curry/Kendrick Perkins PF- Dwight Howard/Brandon Hunter SF- Jiri Welsch/Marcus Fizer/Eddie Robinson SG- Paul Pierce/???? PG- Marcus Banks/Atkins Phoenix Trade Possible Lineup C- Chris Mihm/Kendrick Perkins PF- Dwight Howard/Brandon Hunter SF- Jiri Welsch/Jumaine Jones SG- Paul Pierce/???? PG-Marcus Banks/Chucky Atkins
Howard.....Interesting choice. Ranter will probably like it. I'm not real big on the Chicago scenario you presented, mostly because while Fizer and Curry could be good ones, Fizers often injured and Curry is still far from developed. However, it could have some plausiblity in it, I suppose. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't like anything about the PHX scenario. Particularly Ricky being involved. However, I did say to try to make them somewhat realistic and you've certainly done that. Nice job! :thumbsup:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Howard.....Interesting choice. Ranter will probably like it. I'm not real big on the Chicago scenario you presented, mostly because while Fizer and Curry could be good ones, Fizers often injured and Curry is still far from developed. However, it could have some plausiblity in it, I suppose. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't like anything about the PHX scenario. Particularly Ricky being involved. However, I did say to try to make them somewhat realistic and you've certainly done that. Nice job! :thumbsup:</div> Yeah, I know what you mean about the Phoenix trade, it leaves the team almost the same as it is, just adding Howard and losing Davis. On the Chicago trade, I think Ainge would make that deal in a heartbeat. It just is hard to turn down moving up to the second spot in the draft while getting a #3 pick from a few years ago who is becoming a good center. Do you have any possible trades to move up?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you have any possible trades to move up?</div> To answer that, I'd have to know 2 things: 1. How far up do you want to move up? (and why it's important?) 2. Who's not on the trade collatoral list? We've got 4 total picks available this year: 3 in the first and 1 second rounder. We've got Stewarts contract, plus what ever other players are available for the right price.
Great thread idea, Hagrid! :thumbsup: I realize that this is a thread for a dream draft, but I think that your idea is pretty farfetched, BC. Phoenix has too much to lose by doing that trade. Their #2-6 pick has a great chance of winding up as a superstar and their next franchise player. A team with Livingston, J.Johnson, Marion, and A.Stoudamire looks pretty overwhelming on paper. That team would have more players with the potential to be great that just about any other team in the league. Anyway, my ideal first round of the draft (from an outsider's perspective) would look like this - "With the number fifteen pick, the Boston Celtics select... <font size="3">Pavel Podkolzine</font>." Position: Center Height/Weight: 7-4 (2.22 m)/ 260 (117.9 kg) Birthdate: January 15, 1985 (Novosibirsk, Russia) Team: Varese (Italy) There was not a player I was more excited about in last year's draft. ESPN's Insider really had me pumped up after reading all their articles about the kid. They were talking about him as if he had the potential to be the best Center in the NBA. I remember that he was predicted by many to be the #3 or #4 pick in last year's draft before he withdrew his name. He has dropped in many scout's minds because of his acromegaly, which is the chronic hyperpituitarism marked by progressive enlargement of hands, feet, and face. This also leads to chronic joint pain and other injury concerns. We've all seen how disease and injuries can drop a player. There was Theron Smith going from lotto to out of he draft, and there was Chris Marcus going from a top ten pick to mid-second round. However, Pavel is different. He has the potential to improve that Theron didn't really have much of, and he is in a lot better of shape that Marcus was in. He's also a tremendous athlete. I just think it's amazing that a player can go from being projected over Anthony, Bosh, and Wade to being projected under Earl Smith and Josh Childress. I personally think Pavel can be "the next big thing". "With the twenty-fourth pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select... <font size="3">Peter John Ramos</font>." Position: Center Height/Weight: 7-4 (2.17 m)/ 260 (117.9 kg) Birthdate: May 13, 1985 (Fajardo, Puerto Rico) Team: Criollos de Caguas (P.R.) I have not really determined whether this is wishful thinking or not. Some sites out there say that Ramos will be a lottery pick; however, more credible sources (NBADraft.Net, etc.) say that Ramos will go in the early second round. From what I've read, he has all the potential to be a top ten pick, but he's still very raw. A lot of people might see his Pavel-like height and weight and assume that he's every bit as good of a player, but apparently he lacks the mental aspect of the game. For this reason, he isn't expected to come in right away and be a contributer. His defense is also not up to par with the NBA's standards. On the bright side though, Yahoo reported that he is still growing! "He is 2.17 meters tall and we know that he is still growing," Yahoo Article There are rumors that he has acromegaly like Pavel Podkolzine, but that has yet to be proven. I don't look at his growing as a negative though; I think it's very important. He's not just another tall prospect, because Ramos is a player that grew up playing sports (basketball included). He's in great shape, and runs the court better than your average seven-footer. "With the twentie-fifth pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select... <font size="3">Kris Humphries</font>." Position: Power Forward Height/Weight: 6-8/ 240 Birthdate: February 6, 1985 (Cave Spring, MN) Team: The University of Minnesota I've made my feelings about Humphries clear before in this forum, but there's always more to say. He averaged 22 ppg, 10 rpg, and shot 45% FG, as a Freshman. Guys like Pavel Podkolzine and Peter John Ramos can't even average those numbers playing lesser competition overseas. Against Virginia, Humphries went off for 23 points and 13 rebounds; later he scored 36 points and grabbed 12 rebounds against Indiana. This guy is a true athlete too. If you've ever seen him play live, you'll agree with me. If he grew up a football player, he'd be one of the hottest prospects in NFL Draft talk right now. There's barely any fat on him. Also, in another thread I mentioned how smart Jin was, but Kris Humphries had an A average in High School. Just like Pavel, I'm surprised that he's not considered a top ten pick. Lineup (barring trades and FA signings) - C - Pavel Podkolzine/Chris Mihm/Peter John Ramos PF - Raef Lafrentz/Kris Humphries/Kendrick Perkins/Brandon Hunter SF - Ricky Davis/Jiri Welsch/Jumaine Jones SG- Paul Pierce/Matt Frejie (Second Round pick) PG - Marcus Banks/Chucky Atkins In the NBA, size matters. This would give the Celtics one of the biggest and most talented frontcourts in the future. It would be a very interesting direction for the Celtics to take. So Hagrid, you've heard mine. Let's hear yours. :mrgreen:
Here's my proposals: 1. This is if Toronto gets the 1st-3rd pick in the draft. Toronto trades: Jalen Rose, Lamond Murray, first round draft pick, preferably 1st overall. Boston trades: Ricky Davis, Jumaine Jones, Raef Lafrentz, Chris Mihm, 15th and 25th picks. The Celtics can use the pick from Toronto to draft Emeka Okafor. He can provide an immediate impact on the low post next season. Also, Jalen Rose can start at point guard or come off the bench and make up for the loss of Ricky Davis. Lamond Murray should still have a few good years left in him, and his contract might be useful down the road. The rotation will look like this: C-Okafor/Kendrick Perkins PF-Mark Blount (if he's re-signed)/Hunter SF-Jiri Welsch/Lamond Murray SG-Paul Pierce/Jalen Rose PG-Chucky Atkins/Banks 2nd proposal: Charlotte Trades: 4th pick overall Boston Trades: Ricky Davis, 15th pick overall This might be wishful thinking, since the Bobcats have said they did not want to trade their pick, but in this year's talented draft class, the Bobcats might want to trade down and get a good scorer and a lower pick for their 4th pick. The Celtics can then take Loul Deng or Shaun Livingston. If they take Livingston, it'd be best to trade Chucky Atkins and try to get a post player in return. My trades might be wishful thinking, but I feel that both the proposals will benefit all teams involved.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post"> Toronto trades: Jalen Rose, Lamond Murray, first round draft pick, preferably 1st overall. </div> I don't see how you can find this benefitial to Toronto. I wouldn't trade Rose for R.Davis straight up if I were Toronto. Then you add the first overall pick? If Toronto gets the first overall pick, it should take a hell of a lot more than Ricky Davis to obtain it. The number one pick overall is supposed to be a future superstar, all-star, or at least franchise player. There have been a few busts, but most number one picks pan out. Why would Toronto want to trade this away for Ricky Davis? It doesn't make much sense. You don't just throw around the number one pick as if it's just another part of the offer. Also, what is the deal with all these made up trades? Most of these trades are trades which are centered around Ricky Davis and not the draft picks. How about taking jabs at who the Celtics should actually draft? Or maybe say who the team that recieves the C's pick will draft. Either way, reading through made up trades can get old.
I am familiar with the situation here in Toronto, and they are pretty desperate and need to trade Jalen Rose and Lamond Murray's big contracts in order to try and get Steve Nash, which they want to do. Also, Jalen Rose is not much better than Ricky Davis, and a straight-up trade would work if under the right situations. Also, Toronto desperately need big men and could get one in Chris Mihm, and Raef Lafrentz if healthy. They need a lot of future pieces to get to the playoffs, and this trade might help them. Besides, 3 quality players and 2 first-rounders for one first pick might not be too farfetched.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">I am familiar with the situation here in Toronto, and they are pretty desperate and need to trade Jalen Rose and Lamond Murray's big contracts in order to try and get Steve Nash, which they want to do. Also, Jalen Rose is not much better than Ricky Davis, and a straight-up trade would work if under the right situations. Also, Toronto desperately need big men and could get one in Chris Mihm, and Raef Lafrentz if healthy. They need a lot of future pieces to get to the playoffs, and this trade might help them. Besides, 3 quality players and 2 first-rounders for one first pick might not be too farfetched.</div> Jalen Rose's stats are better than Davis' in points, rebounds, and assists per game. I'm not saying that stats are an indication of how great a player is, but it certainly helps. Aside from stats, Rose is a veteran leader who is old enough to lead a team but young enough to still put up 16 points, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds ever single night. Ricky Davis can't offer that. He's young, still a bit immature, and still somewhat raw; and if you look at his statistical performances, you'll see that his stats get worse just every year. Rose's contract may be a burden, but going as far as shipping him and the #1 pick off for Ricky Davis is too much. If Toronto is wise, they'll wait until his contract expires. If I remember correctly, Jalen Rose only has three years left on his contract. That's the perfect situation for Toronto, because by the time he's a Free Agent will be just about the time when he'll be too old to perform day in and day out like he is right now. They'll use that cap room and sign a big name Free Agent. Then they'll have Vince Carter, a Chris Bosh who is just about peaking, 2004's #1 pick, and a Free Agent who was worth all-star money. That team right there would have championship potential. Anyway, who told you that they wanted Steve Nash? I realize that you live in Toronto, so you must get a lot or Raptors B.S. shoved down your throught 24/7. However, just because Nash is a Canadian it doesn't mean that the General Manager will want him on the team. It just means that the fans want him on the team. You have to know where to draw the line between rumors started by unrealistic Raptors fans and reality. If you have a link though, I'll be more than happy to withdraw that statement. Also, you need to realize that although Toronto needs big men, so do 24 of the other 29 teams in the league. It's very hard to come across a skilled big man these days. If Toronto wants a skilled big man, they'll draft Emeka Okafor or Dwight Howard. Chris Mihm has no great future in my eyes. However, Emeka Okafor and Dwight Howard the potential to be a superstar. Basically, if you made it Ricky Davis for Jalen Rose it would be fair. However, you're underestimating the number one pick by a whole lot.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Rose is a veteran leader who is old enough to lead a team but young enough to still put up 16 points, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds ever single night. Ricky Davis can't offer that. He's young, still a bit immature, and still somewhat raw; and if you look at his statistical performances, you'll see that his stats get worse just every year. </div> First, from a statistical standpoint, you can't compare these guys. Rose is a starter and Davis comes off the bench and plays significantly less minutes, at least this past season. It really comes down to what you want out of them. Those #'s that are bolded can easily be had from RD(and more), IMO. From my standpoint, I'll be in the minority who wouldn't trade Rose for Davis straight up. Davis is very young and is just getting to play in a system, rather than being set free on the court as on of 5 individuals, like he was in Cleveland. Another detraction from this trade is that it trades alot of bodies, WITHIN the Atlantic East. Trading in-conference is generally considered a bad idea. BTW, Wave: That was a great post. I don't agree with who you think we'll take, but it was well reasoned and certain has plausibility to it. Both Ramos and Humphries have been talked about by C's fans I've encountered. Pavel P doesn't seem likely to be around when we pick. Thanks! :thumbsup:
Rose for Davis straight up? If I were the Celtics I would say a very loud "Hell No". If they have seen him play night after night they would know why I said that. Rose is a shooting guard who wants to be a point guard in a shooting guards body. He makes bad decisions on the court and would not complement Pierce at all. The last thing the Celts need is a player who shoots 40% that takes about 15-18 shots a game. Ricky Davis has shown that he can play within a system and keep his bad decisions to a minimum. BTW The Celts would not do this trade because Rose is over their age limit anways.
This might be OT, but I have to disagree with you about Jalen Rose. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post"> Aside from stats, Rose is a veteran leader who is old enough to lead a team but young enough to still put up 16 points, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds ever single night.</div> Leader? Jalen Rose is anything BUT a leader. This guy is supposed to be some kind of leader just because he is experienced, and that was partly why Chicago traded for him. What did he do in Chicago? Not only did he not lead Chicago's young players to any form of success, he was also consistently bitching about everything from coaches to playing time. That is not what makes a leader. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ricky Davis can't offer that. He's young, still a bit immature, and still somewhat raw; and if you look at his statistical performances, you'll see that his stats get worse just every year. Rose's contract may be a burden, but going as far as shipping him and the #1 pick off for Ricky Davis is too much.</div> When did I say it was Rose and the pick for Davis? I'd always maintained that it would be Davis and Rose straight up, and the other players and picks involved for the number one pick. If you look at Rose's stats, his stats get worse season by season now, and injuries are beginning to factor in his play. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Toronto is wise, they'll wait until his contract expires. If I remember correctly, Jalen Rose only has three years left on his contract. That's the perfect situation for Toronto, because by the time he's a Free Agent will be just about the time when he'll be too old to perform day in and day out like he is right now. They'll use that cap room and sign a big name Free Agent.</div> Problem with the Toronto management is that not making the playoffs two straight years is taking a toll on their support here in Toronto. Don't be fooled by the high attendances, most people I know who were fans before now call the Raptors the "Craptors". If they don't make a move soon, they might be in danger of becoming the Atlanta Hawks. Jalen Rose is somewhat of a cancer here in Toronto, he is becoming inconsistent, and turnovers are hurting his play. The emergence of Donyell Marshall as a fan favorite now has taken a lot of the spotlight off him, and I'm sure he'd bitch about it in no time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then they'll have Vince Carter, a Chris Bosh who is just about peaking, 2004's #1 pick, and a Free Agent who was worth all-star money. That team right there would have championship potential.</div> Your plan might seem picture-perfect, but I doubt that Vince Carter would be here to stay by then. Also, why would the Raptors want to sign a big name FA then? That number 1 pick should have been ready for his big contract extension, and the Raptors management are not big spenders by no means. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway, who told you that they wanted Steve Nash? I realize that you live in Toronto, so you must get a lot or Raptors B.S. shoved down your throught 24/7. However, just because Nash is a Canadian it doesn't mean that the General Manager will want him on the team. It just means that the fans want him on the team. You have to know where to draw the line between rumors started by unrealistic Raptors fans and reality. If you have a link though, I'll be more than happy to withdraw that statement.</div> Okay, I do not have a link to justify my statement, so I might be wrong, I'll give it to you for that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, you need to realize that although Toronto needs big men, so do 24 of the other 29 teams in the league. It's very hard to come across a skilled big man these days. If Toronto wants a skilled big man, they'll draft Emeka Okafor or Dwight Howard. Chris Mihm has no great future in my eyes. However, Emeka Okafor and Dwight Howard the potential to be a superstar. Basically, if you made it Ricky Davis for Jalen Rose it would be fair. However, you're underestimating the number one pick by a whole lot.</div> What they need is centers specifically. Chris Bosh cannot play center for 82 games in a season. He is best at PF. If they get Okafor, that's another star on the team, and I think that'd stunt both Bosh's and Okafor's development. Bosh would have to share baskets down low with Okafor, unlike what it is now, with Donyell Marshall able to drift out to the three-point line and make shots. Bosh would have been the only player down low. Now, with Okafor, they'd have to share the post shots. What the management wants is role players to place around Carter and Bosh, not big-name players who'd take shots away from them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">I love a good point/counterpoint debate. These are some very good posts folks, Thanks!</div> No problem. However, it's hard to win in a debate against Wave. He just doesn't give up. Stubborn guy, but he has the facts to back it up. You should have been here when he EMBARASSED KJ.
No problem. However, it's hard to win in a debate against Wave. He just doesn't give up. <font color="Navy">Stubborn guy, but he has the facts to back it up.</font> <font color="DarkRed">You should have been here when he EMBARASSED KJ.</font> <font color="Navy">That's the most important intangible to a debate, backing up your assertations.</font> <font color="DarkRed"><font size="1">(To be honest, I wasn't a big fan of KJ, so anyone taking him to task is good by me.)</font></font>
Sorry, I've forgotten all about this thread until now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No problem. However, it's hard to win in a debate against Wave. He just doesn't give up. Stubborn guy, but he has the facts to back it up. You should have been here when he EMBARASSED KJ.</div> Jeez, Trip. Don't talk me into a hole I can't get out of. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">First, from a statistical standpoint, you can't compare these guys. Rose is a starter and Davis comes off the bench and plays significantly less minutes, at least this past season. It really comes down to what you want out of them. Those #'s that are bolded can easily be had from RD(and more), IMO.</div> Then compare his stats for the 22 games he played (and started) on the Cavaliers. He averaged a little bit over 36 mpg, which is just about what Jalen Rose averaged. Their stats are so even that's it's hard to pick on over the other. They both averaged 15 ppg and 5 apg; Davis averaged about 1.5 rpg more than Rose, but Rose shot 5% better from the field and about 13% better from the line. There's no clear way to distinguish who had the better stats, but it seems pretty equal to me. Neither player had a big advantage in any stat (except Rose with FT %) <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Another detraction from this trade is that it trades alot of bodies, WITHIN the Atlantic East. Trading in-conference is generally considered a bad idea.</div> But it still happens more often than not. Afterall, Ricky Davis came from another Eastern Conference team, and so did Jalen Rose. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Rose for Davis straight up? If I were the Celtics I would say a very loud "Hell No". If they have seen him play night after night they would know why I said that. Rose is a shooting guard who wants to be a point guard in a shooting guards body. He makes bad decisions on the court and would not complement Pierce at all. The last thing the Celts need is a player who shoots 40% that takes about 15-18 shots a game. Ricky Davis has shown that he can play within a system and keep his bad decisions to a minimum. BTW The Celts would not do this trade because Rose is over their age limit anways.</div> FYI - I watched just about every Celtics game this season with League Pass because I was traking James and Davis on my fantasy team. I know how well he can play, but Rose could play just as well. I don't know how he compliments Pierce any less than Davis, nor do I know how you can assume that he wouldn't compliment him without seeing them play together first. You can't truely predict team chemistry. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Your plan might seem picture-perfect, but I doubt that Vince Carter would be here to stay by then. Also, why would the Raptors want to sign a big name FA then? That number 1 pick should have been ready for his big contract extension, and the Raptors management are not big spenders by no means.</div> What makes you say that Carter won't be around? Also, it doesn't matter what they use the money for. The fact is that it'll be there for the taking. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What they need is centers specifically. Chris Bosh cannot play center for 82 games in a season. He is best at PF. If they get Okafor, that's another star on the team, and I think that'd stunt both Bosh's and Okafor's development. Bosh would have to share baskets down low with Okafor, unlike what it is now, with Donyell Marshall able to drift out to the three-point line and make shots. Bosh would have been the only player down low. Now, with Okafor, they'd have to share the post shots. What the management wants is role players to place around Carter and Bosh, not big-name players who'd take shots away from them.</div> Have you ever seen Emeka Okafor play? Sure, in college he averaged a good amount of points per game, but that's not his style of play. He's a defensive player first and a scoring threat second. Stop looking at the glass as half empty; a frontcourt of Bosh and Okafor (given 2-3 years) would be just like some of the elite Western frontcourts. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Problem with the Toronto management is that not making the playoffs two straight years is taking a toll on their support here in Toronto. Don't be fooled by the high attendances, most people I know who were fans before now call the Raptors the "Craptors". If they don't make a move soon, they might be in danger of becoming the Atlanta Hawks. Jalen Rose is somewhat of a cancer here in Toronto, he is becoming inconsistent, and turnovers are hurting his play. The emergence of Donyell Marshall as a fan favorite now has taken a lot of the spotlight off him, and I'm sure he'd bitch about it in no time.</div> Then think up another trade for him to go somewhere else, because obviously the Boston fans nor the nuetral parties aren't feeling this deal from either perspective. Also, there's no way Toronto will ever turn into Atlanta. You've got Vince Carter; Atlanta has Stephen Jackson. You've also got three times as many people as Atlanta does. Anyway, let's not get off topic and turn this into Jalen Rose for Ricky Davis. The trade, as Trip said, also involved Jones, LaFrentz, Mihm, and two picks. However, Trip, those players do not exactly add up to a #1 pick. Jones, LaFrentz, and Mihm are all great post players, but they're not exactly elite. The two picks are likely to turn into future roll players or above average players. The #1 pick on the other hand, has loads of potential to be the next superstar of the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What makes you say that Carter won't be around? Also, it doesn't matter what they use the money for. The fact is that it'll be there for the taking.</div> I mean come on, who wouldn't want to trade their superstar who plays a mere 40 games in a season? It all depends on the new Raptors GM and the direction he wants to take Toronto in. Rumors are flying about regarding Carter for any player in the league. It's inevitable. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you ever seen Emeka Okafor play? Sure, in college he averaged a good amount of points per game, but that's not his style of play. He's a defensive player first and a scoring threat second. Stop looking at the glass as half empty; a frontcourt of Bosh and Okafor (given 2-3 years) would be just like some of the elite Western frontcourts.</div> I think by Elite Western frontcourt, you mean a team like the Lakers or Kings? The Raptors would never become any of these teams. They run a different style of play, a strictly Eastern style, and that does not really revolve around big men. The only team in the East I can think of that plays around a big man is Jermaine O'Neal, and I do not think that neither Bosh nor Okafor would be as good as O'Neal offensively. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then think up another trade for him to go somewhere else, because obviously the Boston fans nor the nuetral parties aren't feeling this deal from either perspective. Also, there's no way Toronto will ever turn into Atlanta. You've got Vince Carter; Atlanta has Stephen Jackson. You've also got three times as many people as Atlanta does. </div> Why wouldn't the Raptors turn into the Hawks? If I were managing a team, I'd take Stephen Jackson's 80 games a season over Carter's 60 anyday. Sure, Carter is more talented, but I just don't believe he is fuelling all his talent towards the right direction in recent years. Population-wise, Toronto has roughly ten million people. However, that doesn't do crap since most people here pay attention to hockey. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway, let's not get off topic and turn this into Jalen Rose for Ricky Davis. The trade, as Trip said, also involved Jones, LaFrentz, Mihm, and two picks. However, Trip, those players do not exactly add up to a #1 pick. Jones, LaFrentz, and Mihm are all great post players, but they're not exactly elite. The two picks are likely to turn into future roll players or above average players. The #1 pick on the other hand, has loads of potential to be the next superstar of the NBA.</div> I might be looking at this purely mathematically, but this is actually 5 role players for one potential superstar. The 24th and 25th picks might not be much worse than the first pick, since this draft is filled with young talent and considering the surprises, the 24th and 25th picks might turn out to be pretty good players in the future. Keep in mind that busts also happen in the draft. Look at Michael Olowakandi and Pervis Ellison: number 1 picks that failed miserably.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">I mean come on, who wouldn't want to trade their superstar who plays a mere 40 games in a season? It all depends on the new Raptors GM and the direction he wants to take Toronto in. Rumors are flying about regarding Carter for any player in the league. It's inevitable.</div> Why not make up a trade like Chris Webber for Vince Carter then? You'd kill two birds with one stone. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think by Elite Western frontcourt, you mean a team like the Lakers or Kings? The Raptors would never become any of these teams. They run a different style of play, a strictly Eastern style, and that does not really revolve around big men. The only team in the East I can think of that plays around a big man is Jermaine O'Neal, and I do not think that neither Bosh nor Okafor would be as good as O'Neal offensively.</div> Teams change; GM's are hired/fired; coaches are hired/fired; players develop into better or worse players than expect. You never know what's going to happen. However, with Bosh and Okafor you have the potential to have the best frontcourt in the league. Okafor is the best player available in this year's draft, and Bosh was one of the top four or five players in last year's draft. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why wouldn't the Raptors turn into the Hawks? If I were managing a team, I'd take Stephen Jackson's 80 games a season over Carter's 60 anyday. Sure, Carter is more talented, but I just don't believe he is fuelling all his talent towards the right direction in recent years. Population-wise, Toronto has roughly ten million people. However, that doesn't do crap since most people here pay attention to hockey.</div> Believe me, it's never going to happen. Toronto is way too big of a market. It's like the Knicks. The Knicks have sucked lately, but they'll always sellout. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I might be looking at this purely mathematically, but this is actually 5 role players for one potential superstar. The 24th and 25th picks might not be much worse than the first pick, since this draft is filled with young talent and considering the surprises, the 24th and 25th picks might turn out to be pretty good players in the future. Keep in mind that busts also happen in the draft. Look at Michael Olowakandi and Pervis Ellison: number 1 picks that failed miserably.</div> Would you trade five roll players for Ben Wallace? Because Okafor is more than likely to turn into a Ben Wallace type player with more of an offensive game. Sure, there's a chance that he'll be a bust, but not a very great one. What's more likely to happen is that the #24 and the #25 picks do nothing, LaFrentz stays just mediocre, and Jones/Mihm stay below the radar.
