<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why not make up a trade like Chris Webber for Vince Carter then? You'd kill two birds with one stone.</div> You're joking, right? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Teams change; GM's are hired/fired; coaches are hired/fired; players develop into better or worse players than expect. You never know what's going to happen. However, with Bosh and Okafor you have the potential to have the best frontcourt in the league. Okafor is the best player available in this year's draft, and Bosh was one of the top four or five players in last year's draft.</div> Exactly what I am playing at. You never know what's going to happen, so why can't Okafor actually turn out to be a total bust and Bosh turns into a 10ppg player for the rest of his career? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Believe me, it's never going to happen. Toronto is way too big of a market. It's like the Knicks. The Knicks have sucked lately, but they'll always sellout.</div> Maybe, and maybe not. Fans are still in the dark, thinking the revival to the team will come, but the Raptors fall short on their promises all the time. Once they see through the lies, the Air Canada Center will be empty, just like the Hawks. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Would you trade five roll players for Ben Wallace? Because Okafor is more than likely to turn into a Ben Wallace type player with more of an offensive game. Sure, there's a chance that he'll be a bust, but not a very great one. What's more likely to happen is that the #24 and the #25 picks do nothing, LaFrentz stays just mediocre, and Jones/Mihm stay below the radar.</div> To me, Ben Wallace is a role player. His job is to play defense and rebound, he doesn't have to share the burden on offense. When Detroit traded Grant Hill for Ben Wallace and co., was it worth it to you? Lafrentz, Jones and Mihm are still young. There's still time for the 3 to develop into valuable contributors and trade baits. What if the Raptors use the picks to draft Kris Humphries, and he turns out to be a better player than Okafor? You never know.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">You're joking, right?</div> No. The way you make it sound, they're really wanting to ditch Carter. So, if you trade for Webber you get your "big man", and you lose that crappy Vince Carter kid that you guys don't want around anymore. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly what I am playing at. You never know what's going to happen, so why can't Okafor actually turn out to be a total bust and Bosh turns into a 10ppg player for the rest of his career?</div> Sure. I'll give you that. You don't know if the Lakers will die in a plane crash tomorrow either (although you can hope). However, you know that it's more than likely not going to happen. Okafor is going to be a stud, and if you don't think that then you haven't seen enough of the kid. I don't watch TOO much Chris Bosh, but I had him on my fantasy team. I was impressed for his stats, considering he was a rookie. He has the potential to be as good as Kevin Garnett or as bad as Robert Archibald. The most likely thing to happen is that he becomes an All-Star caliber player or at least a 15 ppg a game scorer who starts and regularly contributes. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe, and maybe not. Fans are still in the dark, thinking the revival to the team will come, but the Raptors fall short on their promises all the time. Once they see through the lies, the Air Canada Center will be empty, just like the Hawks.</div> You're overreacting. How hard is it to make it back in the playoffs in the East? And lets say for the sake of arguement that the Raptors stay out of the playoffs for the next five years. Do you expect a city of ten million to turn out Hawk-like attendance? Honestly, I'd expect Grizzlies-like attendance at worst. Even if it gets on the Hawks' level, it'll always go up if they make the playoffs the following year. The NBA's firings and hirings are a lot less predictable than a player's future. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">To me, Ben Wallace is a role player. His job is to play defense and rebound, he doesn't have to share the burden on offense. When Detroit traded Grant Hill for Ben Wallace and co., was it worth it to you? Lafrentz, Jones and Mihm are still young. There's still time for the 3 to develop into valuable contributors and trade baits. What if the Raptors use the picks to draft Kris Humphries, and he turns out to be a better player than Okafor? You never know.</div> A role player is a real big understatement. However, if your one concern about Wallace is his offensive game, then why do you think a player who draws comparisons of a Wallace with an offensive game won't pan out? Let's not get into semmantics. We could look back at this in ten years and discuss who was REALLY right or wrong, but right now let's stick to the present; I'm no soothsayer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No. The way you make it sound, they're really wanting to ditch Carter. So, if you trade for Webber you get your "big man", and you lose that crappy Vince Carter kid that you guys don't want around anymore.</div> Well, the fact is, I'm not really sure whether the management want to trade Carter. However, there's lots of grumblings among the media, fans and even on JBB. The fact is, Carter can fetch a player better than Webber. Sure, Webber's a good player, in fact even great, but his contract and age leaves doubt. Also, doesn't his injury problems leave a sense of similarity between him and Carter? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're overreacting. How hard is it to make it back in the playoffs in the East? And lets say for the sake of arguement that the Raptors stay out of the playoffs for the next five years. Do you expect a city of ten million to turn out Hawk-like attendance? Honestly, I'd expect Grizzlies-like attendance at worst. Even if it gets on the Hawks' level, it'll always go up if they make the playoffs the following year. The NBA's firings and hirings are a lot less predictable than a player's future.</div> You made a good point there, and I somewhat agree. I'll give you that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A role player is a real big understatement. However, if your one concern about Wallace is his offensive game, then why do you think a player who draws comparisons of a Wallace with an offensive game won't pan out?</div> Well, what is your definition of a role player?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, the fact is, I'm not really sure whether the management want to trade Carter. However, there's lots of grumblings among the media, fans and even on JBB. The fact is, Carter can fetch a player better than Webber. Sure, Webber's a good player, in fact even great, but his contract and age leaves doubt. Also, doesn't his injury problems leave a sense of similarity between him and Carter?</div> I'm not really going to get into that. It'd be too off topic, but I do think that you're looking at it from a fan's P.O.V. (sure, you may not be a fan, but you get the T-Dot bias a lot). If you were a Sactown fan, you'd say that Webber was worth more than Carter. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, what is your definition of a role player?</div> The opposite of Ben Wallace... A roll player would be someone like Shane Battier who comes not bringing as much to the table as a starter, yet he's still better than your average backup. If you look at it through your eyes, that a roll player is someone who comes in and plays one roll then Wallace isn't a roll player. He can put the points up occassionally, and defense is more than a 'roll'. It's the majority of the game.
^I guess with that, it rounds up the debate, and I bow down. It was fun though, you know I'm up for another one if situations arise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">^I guess with that, it rounds up the debate, and I bow down. It was fun though, you know I'm up for another one if situations arise. </div> Haha, it was more of a tie if you ask me. The debate just dead-ended. I'm up for another point/counterpoint any time. Anway... <font size="4">This thread is still open for dream draft scenarios!</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">I felt like jumping in, but you guys are just too long winded for me. </div> Haha, sorry for going so off-topic man. From Celtics to Raptors to population to Ben Wallace to role player.... Phew!
Most traffic is good traffic, especially when it involves you guys. I really never have minded off-topic stuff during this part of the year, because there's only so much to talk about anyways.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post"> The opposite of Ben Wallace... A roll player would be someone like Shane Battier who comes not bringing as much to the table as a starter, yet he's still better than your average backup. If you look at it through your eyes, that a roll player is someone who comes in and plays one roll then Wallace isn't a roll player. He can put the points up occassionally, and defense is more than a 'roll'. It's the majority of the game.</div> I adisagree with this, Shane Battier is more of a sixth man than a role player. If your definition of a role player is someone who comes in and plays one roll, the Shane Battier is not that at all. Battier does a little of everything he's not specialized in anything. My opinion of a role player is someone like Reggie Evans or Casey Jacobsen. They each have their roll to fill and that's what they do; Evans rebounds like crazy when he's in and Jacobsen shoots the outside shot. They know their roll and that's what they do, they aren't like Battier who does a little of everything.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BC:</div><div class="quote_post">I adisagree with this, Shane Battier is more of a sixth man than a role player. If your definition of a role player is someone who comes in and plays one roll, the Shane Battier is not that at all. Battier does a little of everything he's not specialized in anything. My opinion of a role player is someone like Reggie Evans or Casey Jacobsen. They each have their roll to fill and that's what they do; Evans rebounds like crazy when he's in and Jacobsen shoots the outside shot. They know their roll and that's what they do, they aren't like Battier who does a little of everything.</div> That's not what I said at all. My definition of a role player was - A role player would be someone like Shane Battier who comes not bringing as much to the table as a starter. Trip's definition (the correct one) is - A role player is someone who comes in and plays one role. You missread my post.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A role player is someone who comes in and plays one role.</div> But then isn't Kobe a role player? His role is to put the ball in the basket. And Garnett? His role is too lead the team, and score, and rebound. That definition seems too broad.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">But then isn't Kobe a role player? His role is to put the ball in the basket. And Garnett? His role is too lead the team, and score, and rebound. That definition seems too broad.</div> Doesn't Kobe pass and defend as well? He averaged 6 assists in the season and is a pretty good defender. Is that one role? You said Garnett leads the team, rebound and score? How many roles are that? Besides, He scores from anywhere and is not really a specialist at one aspect of the game. He does everything, and very well at that.
Regardless of the technical definition, when I see the term "role player" used, I think of guys like Brian Grant. Guys who are, for the most part, singularly faceted. In Grants case, he rebounds. That's what he does, that's what the Heat count on him for, that's why he's in the game, it's what he's best at. Whether or not that meets anyone's technical definition, that's how I view the term.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Regardless of the technical definition, when I see the term "role player" used, I think of guys like Brian Grant. Guys who are, for the most part, singularly faceted. In Grants case, he rebounds. That's what he does, that's what the Heat count on him for, that's why he's in the game, it's what he's best at. Whether or not that meets anyone's technical definition, that's how I view the term.</div> Actually, Brian Grant does have a sweet little jumper. If I had to choose an example of role players, I'd pick someone like Earl Boykins. He is called upon to be a scorer. He is too short to rebound, can't really defend well, but can put 10 points on the board in a blink. Another example would be Reggie Miller. Miller is now reduced to a spot-up three-point shooter to stretch the defense, but is still valuable to the team's success.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post">Why not make up a trade like Chris Webber for Vince Carter then? You'd kill two birds with one stone. Teams change; GM's are hired/fired; coaches are hired/fired; players develop into better or worse players than expect. You never know what's going to happen. However, with Bosh and Okafor you have the potential to have the best frontcourt in the league. Okafor is the best player available in this year's draft, and Bosh was one of the top four or five players in last year's draft. Believe me, it's never going to happen. Toronto is way too big of a market. It's like the Knicks. The Knicks have sucked lately, but they'll always sellout. Would you trade five roll players for Ben Wallace? Because Okafor is more than likely to turn into a Ben Wallace type player with more of an offensive game. Sure, there's a chance that he'll be a bust, but not a very great one. What's more likely to happen is that the #24 and the #25 picks do nothing, LaFrentz stays just mediocre, and Jones/Mihm stay below the radar.</div> I know I am a little late entering the game but what the hell. To me,there are two players who will impact right away. One we may be able to get and one we would have to trade. I have gotten creative here so dont cut my head off. The Bulls have pick three and want to move Chandler. The Clips want nothing to do with pick two and Howard. So why not move Pierce and our picks for pick number two along with Chris Wilcox Corey Maggette. Hell,we could give them a Dana Barros as a throw in. This way we still have an athletic wing at the four and we get a PF who can bang as well in Wilcox who is still growing into his frame. Heck,we can take Howard if we wanted to although my pick is Luol Deng. He is to me a future star. His hero is Grant Hill and he really does play like him. He is humble,coachable,and talented. A makeover of a young lineup with the likes of Banks,Deng,Maggette,Wilcox,Lafrentz with Atkins,Davis,Perkins,Mihm,Welsch and whoever is left between Mccarty and Jones would make a decent bench. Short term this would not work well but long term with Maggette improving every year and Deng,we could go places. My other wish is for at Pick 15 we take Jameer Nelson and get our PG for the next 10 years. He is gonna be something. Is one of the fastest players with the ball,can shoot,is a proven leader,and has the body to take a pounding. What better way to get at Philly than to take their beloved Nelson against them hahaha.
