If T-Mac leaves this summer, who deserves to have there jersey retired? as they both wear #1! U can't be biased and don't think about 'Cripple' Hardaway as he is now. When he was with the Magic, he was a legend in the making. I think if he'd stayed injury free we could have been seeing a future Magic Johnson I'm a Penny man!
I don't think either should. If Penny was still the way he was and stayed with the Magic, I would've chosen him. True, both have done wonders for the team, but also not. Both were pretty much versatile and great at what they did. However they really didn't get their teams anywhere. I am comparing Penny to Kemp, he had the potential to become one of the best, and even if he was, he probably wouldn't get anywhere as he'd be in the same boat that TMac, AI and Pierce are in, or even what GP and Kemp had, although he had Shaq. TMac is a superstar, no doubt. A monster player, not to mention one of the best scorers and out of HSers to come to the game. However he's not a very good leader and often gets into trouble, he may have an attitude, but he's good all in all. However if I had to choose, it would have to be TMac, regardless of the record and bad play, the way he plays, the way he is has attracted fans. That means he revived the franchise in a way, that would alone be the reason for me to choose him over Lil' Penny.
Neither should get their jersey retired, if Tmac leaves. If Tmac stays for a couple of more years, then he should get it retired. Tmac is the better all-around player than Penny. Penny had the Shaq factor too, similar to what Kobe is going through. Shaq made him a superstar. Tmac has better numbers all around the board.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sportsrock37:</div><div class="quote_post">Neither should get their jersey retired, if Tmac leaves. If Tmac stays for a couple of more years, then he should get it retired. Tmac is the better all-around player than Penny. Penny had the Shaq factor too, similar to what Kobe is going through. Shaq made him a superstar. Tmac has better numbers all around the board.</div> Lets Define T-Macl; 1.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a "bad ass attitude".. 2.Your "Suoerstar" T-Hog is so "UN-CLUTCH"... 3.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "LAZY"... 4.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "SELFISH"!.... 5.Your "Superstar" T-Hog Plays no attentio to "Defense"..unless he is being shut down by ricky davis kobe bryant etc.. 6.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a one dimensional game..And is STUPID..Does not understand how to "Play the Game"..without relying on his athletic ability... Yes T-Mac is better than penny and Kobe....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic#1:</div><div class="quote_post">Lets Define T-Macl; 1.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a "bad ass attitude".. 2.Your "Suoerstar" T-Hog is so "UN-CLUTCH"... 3.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "LAZY"... 4.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "SELFISH"!.... 5.Your "Superstar" T-Hog Plays no attentio to "Defense"..unless he is being shut down by ricky davis kobe bryant etc.. 6.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a one dimensional game..And is STUPID..Does not understand how to "Play the Game"..without relying on his athletic ability... Yes T-Mac is better than penny and Kobe.... </div> Anybody hear anything? wow that's what you call ignorance , don't even bother replying to any post in here if you haven't watch at least the national tv televised games of Orlando please.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic#1:</div><div class="quote_post">Lets Define T-Macl; 1.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a "bad ass attitude".. 2.Your "Suoerstar" T-Hog is so "UN-CLUTCH"... 3.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "LAZY"... 4.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "SELFISH"!.... 5.Your "Superstar" T-Hog Plays no attentio to "Defense"..unless he is being shut down by ricky davis kobe bryant etc.. 6.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a one dimensional game..And is STUPID..Does not understand how to "Play the Game"..without relying on his athletic ability... Yes T-Mac is better than penny and Kobe.... </div> That is simply very wrong and very bias. McGrady has become a very mature player, he's a great guy offcourt, that alone should take away that stupid bad attitude comment. He's young, therefore he cannot lead. He's good with Kids man, and he's a genuine person. That personality and mental strength makes him so good in the sense that he'd be doing his best. As far as him being lazy, how can you say that? The man has no one his team, "he does everything, he does it well", he just doesn't win. Unclutch, maybe, that's probably true, but that'd be due to his being tired from either "trying" too hard or being tired from a great performance. Don't call him selfish or one-dimensional either. Not only are his stats balanced, not only did he manage to defeat something he didn't know much or anything about(zone defense) but he brings something to the game, particularly for the Magic. He brings the crowd, the fans. He as I said, "does everything and does it well." The man revived the franchise, also about commenting on Kobe into this. What does he have to do with this? That's irrelevant, even if he were, which he probably is, that doesn't change the fact that TMac is one of the most dominant, impacting and top tier players in the league. Voting, awards, making teams, the way he plays and acts, it all shows a true and real winner. He and Penny are both great players and great guys, my reason for not giving it to either was mentioned and the fact that they are on the same level.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic#1:</div><div class="quote_post">Lets Define T-Macl; 1.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a "bad ass attitude".. 2.Your "Suoerstar" T-Hog is so "UN-CLUTCH"... 3.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "LAZY"... 4.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "SELFISH"!.... 5.Your "Superstar" T-Hog Plays no attentio to "Defense"..unless he is being shut down by ricky davis kobe bryant etc.. 6.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a one dimensional game..And is STUPID..Does not understand how to "Play the Game"..without relying on his athletic ability... Yes T-Mac is better than penny and Kobe.... </div> You just ruined the thread with your opinion of t-mac. If you have ever watched the least of the Magic games you'll know that t-mac is the least bit of lazy selfish a hog or unclutch. If you watch the all-star game he hit clutch 3's all over the place. How can he put up 62 if he was lazy and how can be selfish when the reason the Magic lost some close games was because he passed the ball a little bit too much and his players could'nt make the shots. Now back on track. I agree with sportsrock if T-mac were to stay a little more and actually take this team past the first round then he should get his number retired.
If you look back to the 95/96 season, Shaq got injured and Penny carried the team. They even beat the Bulls(72 win squad) without Shaq. I think it was John Koncack at centre. Penny was a force. Another example was the Miami Heat Playoff series in 97. TheMagic were getting spanked by the heat. Series went home to the Magic and Penny dropped 2 40 point performances back to back. He used to also make numerous Highlight plays. If you read any articles at the time they always read that Penny was the star man of the squad. If Shaq hadn't have left we would be looking at cHAMPIONS.
I would say that Tmac was unclutch, but that's the only thing that you defined Tmac that is relatively true. Yes, Penny was amazing, I was a fan of his then, but he was way more inconsistent than Tmac was. I remember a series, I think it was against the Heat(positive it wasn't the one you were talking about though) where we lost game one and he seemed like he didn't care, then game 2, he lit them up, then game 3 he lit them up and game 4,5 he didn't care. (not sure on the exact games, but it was off and on like that and we lost, after Shaq left, he was way lazier than Tmac is now) He could turn it on whenever he pleased back then, it just seemed like he didn't please that much. If you say Penny was better than Shaq then though, you are wrong. Shaq was always the best player. Penny was great, comparable to what Kobe brings to the Lakers(with Shaq).
I love Penny Hardaway, he was a great player if it wasn't for the injury, a possible hall of famer. Penny was a complete player and did everything, when him and shaq were on the magic they were my favorite team, only time i liked shaq...but alas good things came to end and Penny got injured setting him back. I was always wishing and still am that Penny would get back to the old Penny and become an all-star again just like i hope grant hill gets better....i can only dream... Tracy McGrady is a hell of a player and is not selfish, T-Mac and Hardaway are both great players, t-mac a better scorer, but i think the old penny was slightly better...
Neither. In my opinion, the only players that should have their jersey numbers retired by a franchise are the ones that have played the majority of their career in a town and finish their career there as well. Players like Bird, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, etc. Penny did put in a good couple years here in Orlando but went out with a lot of bad blood. No way in hell you are going to see his name up in the rafters someday. As for T-Mac? Too soon to tell, but if he finishes his career here in Orlando, he should definitely get his number retired, if he leaves anytime soon though, forget it. I miss the days though when a player would stay with a team out of loyalty.
If it had to be one of them, I would pick Penny...now lemme explain why...I don't neccessarily think Penny was a better player (T-Mac is probably slightly better IMO) but jerseys are retired because of what they did for the franchise... Penny MADE the Orlando Magic...yes Shaq was on that team, but Penny was the glory player. He sold more jerseys (even more than T-mac today), he was the one the kids emulated, and it was he who put the Magic on NBC every Sunday (all this made Shaq jealous if u recall). Keep in mind the Magic franchise was only a few years old when he entered the league. Penny helped create the original Magic fan-base that still remains today. Penny was more popular than T-mac has ever been, and his popularity helped build the foundation for what the Magic are today... This is also not including the fact that Penny had some playoff sucess, etc etc....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic#1:</div><div class="quote_post">Lets Define T-Macl; 1.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a "bad ass attitude".. 2.Your "Suoerstar" T-Hog is so "UN-CLUTCH"... 3.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "LAZY"... 4.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "SELFISH"!.... 5.Your "Superstar" T-Hog Plays no attentio to "Defense"..unless he is being shut down by ricky davis kobe bryant etc.. 6.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a one dimensional game..And is STUPID..Does not understand how to "Play the Game"..without relying on his athletic ability... Yes T-Mac is better than penny and Kobe.... </div> The only thing you're right on is unclutch. Let's do Kobe: 1.Adulterer 2.Alledged rapist. I'll take T-Mac characteristics over Kobe's anyday. BTW-Let's see what Kobe does when he opts out and gets his own team. He'll see what it's like without the Big Diesel and being tripled team every single night like T-Mac
Lets not turn this into a T-mac/Kobe debate, this thread is about T-mac & Penny. NMG, I agree with everything you said. Honestly I don't think either player should have their jersey retired. But if I had to select one, I would select Penny for the soul reason of what he did to the franchise. (While he was playing) Penny and Shaq created the fan base we have to this very day, and those fans are the ones who have remained loyal through it all. Penny reminds me of DA in a way, they have both helped the franchise. McGrady has done a lot for this TEAM, but he hasn't had the impact that Penny had. But if McGrady decides not to opt out, things could easily change. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a "bad ass attitude"..</div> Well, T-mac often has that attitude, but what does that have to do with McGrady/Penny? Nothing. Therefore that comment wasn't necessary. If you want to bash Orlando's franchise player, back yourself up. I'll help you out-- Give us one of his famous quotes. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Your "Suoerstar" T-Hog is so "UN-CLUTCH"...</div> Well, our s-u-p-e-r-s-t-a-r T-Mac is unclutch. But he's only 25. I believe it was Jordan who didn't succeed in the playoffs until his late 20's. He turned out to be a pretty good player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "LAZY"...</div> Lazy on defense, yes. Lazy in general? Hell no. If he was really lazy Orlando would have finished the season 0-82. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4.Your "Superstar" T-Hog is "SELFISH"!....</div> Not really. He just has terrible teammates. It's not his fault he passes the ball and his teammates miss an open layup. (Steven Hunter) <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">5.Your "Superstar" T-Hog Plays no attentio to "Defense"..unless he is being shut down by ricky davis kobe bryant etc..</div> I don't understand you. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">6.Your "Superstar" T-Hog...Has a one dimensional game..And is STUPID..Does not understand how to "Play the Game"..without relying on his athletic ability...</div> So he's stupid now? Or his 'one dimensional game?' Do explain. Without relying on athletic ability? That one made my day. Do you know theres more players in this league because of their athletic ability than their fundamentals?
