Well Livingston is extremely immature, even his own grandfather was saying he is too immature right now to be going into the league. In leadership and being a floor general, right now I'd go: Duhon, Nelson, Harris, Gordon, Telfair, Livingston.
Any word on where Andre Barrett will go (if he gets drafted at all)? He has some good skills, can shoot and pass, but he looks really small (which is probably y he won't make the league)...
I read an article on ESPN.com talking about pre-draft workouts, they said that Telfair and Jameer had a workout together at Clippers and Jazz. They said Telfair held his own on Nelson but Jameer got more raves because you could tell he had alot more experience.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Phreeze:</div><div class="quote_post">When I see Jameer Nelson, all I can think of is Derek Fisher. I know they don't have the same style of game, but I think Nelson will end up having a career similar to Fish... Not a true PG but can still get the necessary done, and a decent scorer in the league. Their size is also very similar, both around 200LBS and around 6'1. Anyone else see the similarities, or is it just me?</div> I totally agree, I would draft Nelson before the HS kid, but after Gordon !
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">This year, there is a decent crop of point guards. The two who seem to get the most attention, are high schoolers. This is basically the American PG's because I haven't seen the foreign players. 1. Shaun Livingston - 6'7" - 170 pounds - High School Senior - Peoria Central - At 6'7", Livingston is the new style of NBA point guard, big. He is a pass first player, with scoring being the last thing. An extremely good ball handler, but needs to put on weight and muscle. Jumpshot also needs work, like many of these young high schooler's. Projection: Top 5 pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 18 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 5.7 APG, 3.0 SPG, 2.2 BPG, .509 FG %, .782 FT %, .338 3FG % Rivals Hoops High School Top 100 Ranking: Overall - #2. Position - #1. (Shaun had verbally committed to Duke, but later entered the NBA Draft) 2. Ben Gordon - 6'2" - 195 pounds - Junior - Connecticut - Gordon was a SG in college. He has amazing quickness, and handle, and gets into the lane with ease. Will be a combo guard, but his size holds him back to be a primary point man. Ability to run a team is questionable, but his scoring is not. He has a wide array of moves, and a good jumpshot with plenty of range. Ben is an extremely explosive player. His biggest weakness will probably come when he tries to convert from a college scorer to an NBA point guard. He will need to focus more on running the team, and controlling the ball and game, then scoring. Projection: Top 10 pick, possibly top 5. 2003-04 Statistics ? 18.5 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, .434 FG %, .829 FT %, .433 3FG % 3. Devin Harris ? 6?3? ? 185 pounds ? Junior ? Wisconsin ? Athletic player, with quickness and speed. Has a decent jump shot with range, but definitely needs work to be more effective because he is inconsistent. He is a long player, helps him when driving the lane. Devin is a good passer, was one of the most underrated players on the national scene. Needs to get stronger to improve on his defense. Looks like a promising prospect. Projection : Top 7 pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 19.5 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, .459 FG %, .792 FT %, .373 3FG % " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/devin-harris-hd.jpg"></a> 4. Sebastian Telfair - 6'0" - 170 pounds - High School Senior - Lincoln - Telfair is also a quick, scoring guard. Reminds me of his cousin, Stephon Marbury. Very explosive player, and driving into the lane and finishing is a big part of his game. At times, his jumpshot is deadly, and other times, he cannot hit the ocean. Extremely good passer because of his court vision. The biggest problem with his game is shooting, and his biggest problem is size, but a good player is a good player. Projection: Middle first round, probable lottery pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 33.2 PPG, 9.2 APG, 3.7 RPG, 3.0 SPG, .534 FG %, .738 FT %, .45 3FG % Rivals Hoops High School Top 100 Ranking: Overall - #6. Position - #2. (Sebastian had verbally committed to Louisville, but later entered the NBA Draft) 5. Jameer Nelson - 5'11" - 185 pounds - Senior - St. Joseph's - Nelson was the best PG in college basketball last season, and arguably the best player. Size is a big issue. Very strong and quick, which is a great combo for an NBA point guard. Good jumpshot, with some range, and very good in transition. Good passer, and a very good rebounder for someone of his height. If he was bigger, he would have been a lottery pick last year. In college, he would get sloppy with the ball, something he needs to work on to be a good NBA point guard. Projection : ? Top 15, probably lottery pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 20.6 PPG, 5.3 APG, 4.7 RPG, 3.0 SPG, .475 FG %, .792 FT %, .390 3FG % (Jameer tested NBA waters last summer at the NBA Draft camp in Chicago, but decided on going back to college) " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/jam...nelson-hd.jpg"></a> 6. Chris Duhon ? 6?1? ? 190 pounds ? Senior ? Duke ? Duhon is the ultimate floor leader. He was a 4 year starter at Duke. Doesn?t have an amazing jumpshot, or a killer crossover, but he can run a team. Very high basketball IQ, and he knows what to do with the basketball on the floor. Definitely needs to improve outside shot. Will knock down the jumper, but very inconsistent. He is a very good on ball defender. Projection ? Early to middle 2nd round 2003-04 Statistics ? 10 PPG, 6.1 APG, 4.1 RPG, 2.2 SPG, .448 FG %, .722 FT %, .302 3FG % " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/chris-duhon-hd2.jpg"></a> 7. Blake Stepp ? 6?4? ? 194 pounds ? Senior ? Gonzaga ? Good size guard who can shoot it from deep. He has good range, with good mechanics. Not extremely quick, or flashy. He could be a combo guard, playing both backcourt spots. Needs to work on his defense, could be a good backup. Projection : Mid 2nd round 2003-04 Statistics ? 14.7 PPG, 6.9 APG, 4.6 RPG, 1.2 SPG, .435 FG %, .850 FT %, .381 3FG % " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/blake-stepp-hd.jpg"></a> Others ? Tim Pickett, Lionel Chalmers, Antonio Burks</div> Ridiculous. Utterly Ridiculous. These HS PGs arent anything compared to Harris or Nelson. I see Gordon as a Chauncey Billups. PG skills but will take a long time to hone them. Livingston is good but is too skinny and will not impact the way a Harris or Nelson will. Telfair is overrated IMO. Why the hell is it that NBA teams would rather go boom/bust with HS than get guys that can actually play?? A real head scratcher. :thumbsdow
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting panfolk:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry to derail things but I was wondering if I could avail you guys of your expertise... Phoenix is picking seventh and have already auditioned Nelson. Who would be the best leader/passer between Telfair, Nelson, Gordon, and Harris? Would it be smart to trade down (get rid of Eisley's contract) and pick up Duhon? We already have 2 combo guards in Barbosa and Vujanic (an undersized 2, if he decides to come over) and need a general. Hope I'm not outta line here. I guess it is still ranking them. Who would be the best floor general (but sadly Livingston and possibly Gordon are out of our reach)?</div> While a lot of mocks have Phoenix taking a big man, I'm almost positive they take a guard. Among those you listed, Harris and Gordon are the most talented, but Harris is more of a true pg. My guess is that they take Harris. Nelson may be the best leader, but the highest I see him going is #10 to Cleveland. I'm a big Duhon fan. I think he's about as under rated as Nelson is over rated. He's definately worth a second round pick, or even a low first rounder.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">Who was the last great player to come out of college after 4 years? All the great players go to the pros. So the competition he was playing against, was not what it could have been. He played in a very weak conference, where no one else could even guard him.</div> There aren't many, but there the occasional great player who played all four years in college can still be found. Kirk Hinrich, Kenyon Martin, Andre Miller, Wally Szczerbiak, and, of course, Tim Duncan. That being said, I am not a Nelson fan. Being a great college player is by no means a guarantee of being a great NBA player. Mateen Cleaves, Khalid El-Amin, Dan Dickau, Jason Gardner, and Steve Logan were all great college pgs. It's even more difficult when you're an under sized pg like El-Amin, Gardner, and Logan. Now Nelson is more talented than any of them, but not so much so that he's guaranteed to succeed. How many pgs under six feet have managed to succeed in the league recently? Stoudemire, Boykins, Ford, and Claxston have all had one degree of success or another, but aside from Stoudemire, none of them have done anything to merit a high lottery pick. Nelson hasn't shown me anything that would merit a change to that trend.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ridiculous. Utterly Ridiculous. These HS PGs arent anything compared to Harris or Nelson. I see Gordon as a Chauncey Billups. PG skills but will take a long time to hone them. Livingston is good but is too skinny and will not impact the way a Harris or Nelson will. Telfair is overrated IMO. Why the hell is it that NBA teams would rather go boom/bust with HS than get guys that can actually play?? A real head scratcher.</div> It really isn't ridiculous at all. Ask any NBA scout who they would want, Jameer Nelson or Shawn Livingston, and I will gurantee that 100% of them say Shawn. wtwalker77 just answered you. Being a great college player isn't a lock to be a great NBA player. He reeled off a bunch of names that had no impact in the league. Logan from Cincy could light it up. El-Amin was a fantastic college player, but did nothing in the NBA. Nowadays, going to college, especially when you stay for four years, is a sign of weakness. If you have to go to college at all, you are thought of less of a basketball player. I am not a big fan of Nelson either. He isn't that big, and didn't play against the greatest competition in college.
