On that note about bail, it's quite disturbing that had this been someone who couldn't afford 25 g's for bail, he would've been incarcerated for all this time despite not even have had a trial.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">On that note about bail, it's quite disturbing that had this been someone who couldn't afford 25 g's for bail, he would've been incarcerated for all this time despite not even have had a trial.</div> 2 points: 1. He's not accused of shoplifting here. The nature of the alleged crime demands that society have a measure of safety from a potential predator. However, as is all things American, those with money, get the breaks. 2. It's part of the legal process. The "average Joe" wouldn't have been given 25g bail. It would have likely been something more substantial. Kobe was made to pay a retainer, because as Hunter pointed out, the judge assumed him to be neither a flight risk or a threat to society. I disagree with the latter assumption, but I'm not the judge.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">He's not accused of shoplifting here. The nature of the alleged crime demands that society have a measure of safety from a potential predator. </div> Alleged = assumption of guilt. I love it. God bless John Ashcroft.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">2 points: 1. He's not accused of shoplifting here. The nature of the alleged crime demands that society have a measure of safety from a potential predator. However, as is all things American, those with money, get the breaks. 2. It's part of the legal process. The "average Joe" wouldn't have been given 25g bail. It would have likely been something more substantial. Kobe was made to pay a retainer, because as Hunter pointed out, the judge assumed him to be neither a flight risk or a threat to society. I disagree with the latter assumption, but I'm not the judge.</div> how do you consider Kobe a threat to society? do you seriously believe that he'll go around raping people? under your reasoning, almost no one should be given bail -and by the way, you are wrong, plenty of people accused of violent crimes go on bail every day, especially first-time offenders. his assets would not be an issue if he was planning to escape the country, even a destitute person will rather leave the US than face life in jail. notwhistanding the injustice of depriving somebody of liberty when he hasn't even been found guilty yet. why even bother with a trial? ah, but there's that pesky fifth amendment. i don't get what you are saying about a retainer either. who did he pay a retainer to?
Kobe wont be convicted and if he is he wont go to jail. no way. no how. They could find a videotape of him punching, tying down, and raping the living *expletive* out of that girl and ten others and he wont go to jail. hes too rich. too famous. too well liked. no jury would convict him ecxept maybe the klan
^^^ ur thinkin more of the r.kelly situation i think kobes defence will be strong enuff to help him out of this mess.... but its kinda stupid how the media has created this image of him....that will follow him around even after or if he gets free... but the thing is, great players cover up that stuff with thier plays examples: jason kidd incident, allen iverson, even MJ with his whole divorce thing and that stuff he did earlier in his career... i think the media is hypin Kobe up too much and i doubt the judge would hand him life in prison....if he does get convicted, which i highly doubt, i think its more of a 4 year sentence....i just cant imagine such a high-profile celbrity who is loved by so many, a SUPERSTAR of the NBA, a 25 year old with 3 championships doing LIFE in prison....it just cant work out in my head...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i don't get what you are saying about a retainer either. who did he pay a retainer to?</div> The retainer comment was essentially saying that they had to make him put up something, in terms of bail. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">under your reasoning, almost no one should be given bail -and by the way, you are wrong, plenty of people accused of violent crimes go on bail every day, </div> That's not my reasoning. Those are your spin in it. My reasoning is that normal people accused of rape don't get to pay the paltry sum of $25,000 bail. Prosecutors of violent crimes cases almost always start bail recommendations with remand first. The nature of the crime dictates it. Defense then provides mitigating reasoning why bail should be afforded to the defendant. And yes, Anyone accused of rape is a threat to society. Say whatever you want, but anyone who says that they thought Kobe was potentially a rapist before these allegation were made, is likely straight-up lying. If he fooled everyone previously, then yes, he could potentially rape someone else. I'm not saying it would be the smartest move or even likely, but it is completely possible. The nature of rape in itself means that someone has a mental deficiency that would allow them to violate someone in a manner like that. <u>Regardless of all this, it looks like it won't matter:</u> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5070072/ If what's being reported ends up being true, then there's little likelyhood Bryant would be convicted anyways. <font color="DarkRed">The point of all this isn't that I have some vendetta against Kobe and want the accusations to be true. Rape is a horrible crime that should never happen. What I do want to do is provide some parity against the far too many, fanatical Laker and Kobe fans who are calling the man innocent just because they idolize him on the basketball court.</font>
Unless the team is found guilty of some sort of tampering or the other teams throw a series there should be no such thing as an *. Even the Spurs in the lockout season shouldn't have a * for the fact that they won the games that is all that matters. Oh year GO WOLVES we may be down 3-1 dammit but we are going to make this series go on.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh yeah, GO WOLVES we may be down 3-1 dammit but we are going to make this series go on.</div> I'm with ya on that one. THE JUGGERNAUT MUST FALL!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">The retainer comment was essentially saying that they had to make him put up something, in terms of bail. That's not my reasoning. Those are your spin in it. My reasoning is that normal people accused of rape don't get to pay the paltry sum of $25,000 bail. Prosecutors of violent crimes cases almost always start bail recommendations with remand first. The nature of the crime dictates it. Defense then provides mitigating reasoning why bail should be afforded to the defendant. And yes, Anyone accused of rape is a threat to society. Say whatever you want, but anyone who says that they thought Kobe was potentially a rapist before these allegation were made, is likely straight-up lying. If he fooled everyone previously, then yes, he could potentially rape someone else. I'm not saying it would be the smartest move or even likely, but it is completely possible. The nature of rape in itself means that someone has a mental deficiency that would allow them to violate someone in a manner like that.</div> In what manner????? Did he stalk her in a dark alley, beat her to a pulp, then rape her? If you are going to argue about whether or not his bail amount was fair, you have to stick to the facts - at the most this is consensual sex that ended up with her changing her mind and he didn't stop. yes it will be rape. no it wouldn't be the act of some psychopath who needs to stay locked up for the safety of society. your reasoning is that "anybody accused of rape is a threat to society" and consequently needs to stay in jail until trial, right? (nevermind that they are just "accused", not proven guilty yet) following your argument to the end I could say why stop at rape? why not for example vehicular manslaughter or even DUI? it's more likely that somebody caught driving drunk will do it again and kill someone else right? let's start building more jails. a big factor in allowing bail or not is "criminal intent", namely whether the defendant's action were criminally motivated - if he intended to rape her from the beginning (or the drunk who killed somebody got on his car looking for a victim to run over). the basis for that is a logic assumption that people that commit criminal acts are not criminals per se, won't be out looking to do it again as soon as they are back on the street. that's why a professional thief doesn't get bail. any prosecutor would tell you there's no way you could prove criminal intent in kobe's case. still don't make sense on the retainer thing. a retainer you pay to a lawyer, it's money in advance to cover his costs. if you mean he paid ten percent of his bail amount, "they", whoever they are, didn't "have to make him", that's standard and it's what everybody does. no preferential treatment here.
If he is found guilty, I'm moving to LA to keep his wife and the bed sheets warm till he gets out of the pen. haha
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">your reasoning is that "anybody accused of rape is a threat to society" and consequently needs to stay in jail until trial, right? </div> If I came across as though I meant that no one should be afforded bail, that was not my intention. My intention was to indicate that bail for violent crimes should not be given lightly, as it seemingly was in this case. The retainer comment again: I mean that the court had to make Kobe put forth some monitary amount, before being released. I refer to it as a retainer, because IMO, it was not a serious amount, in proportion to the mans net worth. It's almost like a slap in the face to the accused to offer Kobe $25,000 bail, when the man could have still walked out of the court that day, had they asked for $1 mil +. It's almost like saying to the victim that they weren't taking her claim all that seriously, <u>IMO.</u> ________________________________________ <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">yes it will be rape. no it wouldn't be the act of some psychopath who needs to stay locked up for the safety of society.</div> Not to be confrontational, but stop into a rape survivor's message board and share that thought sometime. I don't think you'll like the responses you get. Rape is serious, no matter what the circumstances surrounding it. I know you don't mean to, but the above statement almost seems to make light of a very serious and life altering issue. Intent doesn't make it any easier to deal with afterwards. _________________________________________ I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone who has contributed to this spirited conversation thus far. So far, posters have dealt with this issue in a very mature manner. I hope no one has taken offense to me playing devils advocate thus far.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">I hope no one has taken offense to me playing devils advocate thus far. </div>That was my intention when I started this thread. Good thread thus far(besides the "I'll take care of Kobe's wife while he's in jail" comments )
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rudeezy:</div><div class="quote_post">That was my intention when I started this thread. Good thread thus far(besides the "I'll take care of Kobe's wife while he's in jail" comments )</div> whats wrong with those comments Wouldnt you like to take care of her too? She is smoking man, that dissapoints me about Kobe, He has a beautiful wife to come home too, a brand new baby girl, and he cheats on his wife. I lost a lot of respect for him as a man, but I also respect the fact that he is handling the whole case like a man, not saying stuff like he got carried away, or he had too much to drink.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">whats wrong with those comments Wouldnt you like to take care of her too? She is smoking man, that dissapoints me about Kobe, He has a beautiful wife to come home too, a brand new baby girl, and he cheats on his wife. I lost a lot of respect for him as a man, but I also respect the fact that he is handling the whole case like a man, not saying stuff like he got carried away, or he had too much to drink.</div> There is no point in spinning it around...Kobe can't spin an answer about what he did,so he's handling the whole thing like an adult,which i can say is more than most of us would do What Kobe did was wrong,and he knows it...the way he is handling it is admirable,and i think this is a sign of maturity on his part...Vanessa forgave him for his screw-up,but the question is this: Will The Jury Buy His Current Actions?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">whats wrong with those comments Wouldnt you like to take care of her too? She is smoking man, that dissapoints me about Kobe, He has a beautiful wife to come home too, a brand new baby girl, and he cheats on his wife. I lost a lot of respect for him as a man, but I also respect the fact that he is handling the whole case like a man, not saying stuff like he got carried away, or he had too much to drink.</div> She probaly crept around herself before the baby. To me, every ball player cheats no matter how fine their spouse is. She is dime fo sho though. But he most likely cheated before, and should've kept his hormones in check after his baby was born. Anyways, he is handling the best way anybody could ever do. It's like this court case rejuvanates him to play great. It's amazing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Not to be confrontational, but stop into a rape survivor's message board and share that thought sometime. I don't think you'll like the responses you get. Rape is serious, no matter what the circumstances surrounding it. I know you don't mean to, but the above statement almost seems to make light of a very serious and life altering issue. Intent doesn't make it any easier to deal with afterwards.</div> I know is a horrible thing to live through (someone I'm very close to was raped) but just the same, intent is a big part of it. Even a rape survivor, if he or she could put her emotions aside, will see the difference between a premeditated act and consensual sex that doesn't stop after one of the partners withdraws consent -if we are discussing how likely that person is to commit the same crime again. Again, to go back to the DUI example, the guy who got drunk and killed somebody is not a criminal, is someone who commited a criminal act - not something I'm gonna say in a MADD message board, but true nonetheless.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 30 standing ver:</div><div class="quote_post">She probaly crept around herself before the baby. To me, every ball player cheats no matter how fine their spouse is. She is dime fo sho though. But he most likely cheated before, and should've kept his hormones in check after his baby was born. </div>That is an unfair stereo type. I do believe that a lot of NBA players sleep around but there are still some respectable people out there. The David Robinson's and A.C. Green's of the NBA.
