I have been following this guys draft mentality and its become very clear. He was all over Amare Stoudamire when he was on TNT. He talked very very highly of him and he was on the money with it. He also said when James was a jr in HS that there are three players he would build a team with and James was one. Last year he drafted Perkins and thus far is rumored heavy interest in Swift and Jefferson. So you ask what am I getting at? He believes in guys physically ready to play. No twiggys. Its also a numbers game much like the NFL. Teams that stockpile can take a chance on high ceiling players. Thus thats what Ainge will do. Draft a bunch and hope one pans out to build around. I think he found out though that free agents want nothing to do with Boston which is going to be the biggest hinderance in building a title contender once Shaq retires.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think he found out though that free agents want nothing to do with Boston which is going to be the biggest hinderance in building a title contender </div> I understood the premise and validity of everything you said except the above quote. Why is it you feel this way? Doc Rivers said emphatically that this is one of the Top 10 most desirable jobs in sports, even today. Why would free agents not want to come to Boston, other than because of money?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">I understood the premise and validity of everything you said except the above quote. Why is it you feel this way? Doc Rivers said emphatically that this is one of the Top 10 most desirable jobs in sports, even today. Why would free agents not want to come to Boston, other than because of money?</div> Well he could be talking about the fact that Danny Ainge doesnt have the best reputation around the league, You remember those two back to back years that the Suns/Rockets met in the Western Conference finals & developed bad blood. And then when key parts of the Rockets got trade to the Suns Cassell, Horry, Mark Bryant, Chucky Brown(for Sir Charles in 96). They bumped heads with Ainge(he had become the coach that year). And they said it was because of the grudge Ainge had for them, when they beat his suns(when ainge was a player in 94' &95'). And Horry said that Ainge provoked him into throwing the towel at him just so he could trade him. And then this year, Walker said that Ainge had a grudge against him from day one. And traded him to Dallas because he knew there was a log jam at the forward spot with Jamison, Dirk, Fortson,(& Walker once he got there). Walker said he felt Ainge put him there to ruin his career. And the rumor was that Ainge traded Eric Williams, Tony Battie to the Cavs as a method of forcing Jim O' brien to give up his job without actually firing him. So if certain Free Agent feel thses stories or rumorsa are true that may distract big time free Agents from wanting to come to Boston with Ainge at the top. I dont think alot of players would want to play for an organization where the higher ups(GM's, or Coaches etc) are rumored to be the type that makes things very personal & holds grudges. I mean if you get into it with Ainge he might pull a dirty move & have you playing for the Hawks by the end of the season LOL Doc Rivers thinks the Celtics job is top 10 because of the history of the Celtics. He probably has dreams of being listed with Red Auerbach & KC Jones one day. But I doubt that Celtics history has any affect on these NBA players nowadays.
Nothing should be left in Ainge's hands period. Any decision of his should simply be ignored, he should've stayed a coach or retire as a player. I hardly believe in the thread title itself, Ainge and Philosophy should never be used in the same sentence. I have no faith in him whatsoever. A combination of him as a GM and if he were still here, Pitino as a coach would've been even more devastating. Two idiotic minds. They ruined the franchise.
Henacy, you make a great point. Ainge might be destroying the Celtics legacy with his moves and personality. Stockpiling talent, that does sound like an Ainge move, although I'd expect him to at least trade one of his picks this year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Philjacksonsux:</div><div class="quote_post">I have been following this guys draft mentality and its become very clear. He was all over Amare Stoudamire when he was on TNT. He talked very very highly of him and he was on the money with it. He also said when James was a jr in HS that there are three players he would build a team with and James was one. Last year he drafted Perkins and thus far is rumored heavy interest in Swift and Jefferson. So you ask what am I getting at? He believes in guys physically ready to play. No twiggys. Its also a numbers game much like the NFL. Teams that stockpile can take a chance on high ceiling players. Thus thats what Ainge will do. Draft a bunch and hope one pans out to build around. I think he found out though that free agents want nothing to do with Boston which is going to be the biggest hinderance in building a title contender once Shaq retires.</div> Look at free agents in the past ten years that have come to Boston. All are either aging Vets or scrubs. Not one impact free agent has come to Boston since............? I truly dont remember any. I recall Dominique and him being a bust as he was too old. Its been widely acknowledged Boston isnt good on the black athlete which is complete and utter garbage but its word in the league. What we did to Kidd wasnt exactly stuff you will find appealing to go to. All this plus Boston is a cold weather city makes it a tough attraction for FAs. Rivers I think will certainly help in that department but who knows?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Look at free agents in the past ten years that have come to Boston. All are either aging Vets or scrubs. Not one impact free agent has come to Boston since............? </div> Lets not jump off bridges here. Keep in mind who's been running this team over the last 7-10 years: 1. OB was a bum(albeit a bum with a better record than Pitfultino) 2. Pitino was a bum 3. Wallace still is a bum 4. Paul "Thanks Dad" Gaston was the biggest bum of them all. The franchise forgot what it was about for a while: Winning. Gaston was all about profits, not championships. The recent coaching legacy, along with Wallace's bumbling has set this franchise back years. Not everything Dannyboy does is right in peoples mind, I'll grant you that. He can be viewed as decietful in his dealings (like what GM isn't?) and also the type of guy who settles personal vendettas in a malicious manner(see AW matter). Either of those suppositions I can see as possibly valid. However, let's keep in mind that Dannyboy knows how to win. He knows how to select players in the draft. I may not agree with the way he handles everything, but he wants to win and is setting the franchise back on the road to that. Once he gets us back to respectibility, FA's will come here. Winning attracts FA's and quite simply put: we're not doing that right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Lets not jump off bridges here. Keep in mind who's been running this team over the last 7-10 years: 1. OB was a bum(albeit a bum with a better record than Pitfultino) 2. Pitino was a bum 3. Wallace still is a bum 4. Paul "Thanks Dad" Gaston was the biggest bum of them all. The franchise forgot what it was about for a while: Winning. Gaston was all about profits, not championships. The recent coaching legacy, along with Wallace's bumbling has set this franchise back years. Not everything Dannyboy does is right in peoples mind, I'll grant you that. He can be viewed as decietful in his dealings (like what GM isn't?) and also the type of guy who settles personal vendettas in a malicious manner(see AW matter). Either of those suppositions I can see as possibly valid. However, let's keep in mind that Dannyboy knows how to win. He knows how to select players in the draft. I may not agree with the way he handles everything, but he wants to win and is setting the franchise back on the road to that. Once he gets us back to respectibility, FA's will come here. Winning attracts FA's and quite simply put: we're not doing that right now.</div> Whoa Whoa Whoa. O brien was certainly not a bum and he nearly engineered this team to the final except that Walker ran out of gas. Free Agents havent come here when we won. Seriously. Name a decent Free Agent signee in the past 15 years.
Again, refer to who was running the show. That's the point. You're welcome to your opinion, but OB was a bum, IMO. Anyone who sacrifices the future of the franchise for meaningless wins, so he can maintain his job, is a bum in my book. Also: you can't blame a collapse on a singular player, although I'm not really surprised to see that Walker gets the blame, since he was the whipping boy in Boston his entire stay here.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Philjacksonsux:</div><div class="quote_post">Whoa Whoa Whoa. O brien was certainly not a bum and he nearly engineered this team to the final except that Walker ran out of gas. Free Agents havent come here when we won. Seriously. Name a decent Free Agent signee in the past 15 years.</div> Really? Walker didnt run out of gas, he was completely overmatched by one Kenyon Martin, as for Obie, once teams learned that we were A) going to front everytime down the floor and Not going to rebound, it was just a matter of sending the ball around the horn for the backdoor pass to the center that was being fronted for the dunk. Combine that with the fact that if you couldnt learn the D, you couldnt play, what was the need for youth?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44in05:</div><div class="quote_post">Really? Walker didnt run out of gas, he was completely overmatched by one Kenyon Martin, as for Obie, once teams learned that we were A) going to front everytime down the floor and Not going to rebound, it was just a matter of sending the ball around the horn for the backdoor pass to the center that was being fronted for the dunk. Combine that with the fact that if you couldnt learn the D, you couldnt play, what was the need for youth?</div> Not taking anything away from Martin. He dominated Walker for sure. And I am always one for winning. Losing breeds more losing and I disagree with Ainges thinking on OB. He changed a culture of losing under Pitino into winning and based on defense. I liked the direction with Walker,Pierce and co. And no Hagrid,I am not blaming Walker as it was lack of talent that did the Celtics in more than anything but he running out of gas as well as the rest of the team cost them a trip to the finals.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Philjacksonsux:</div><div class="quote_post">Not taking anything away from Martin. He dominated Walker for sure. And I am always one for winning. Losing breeds more losing and I disagree with Ainges thinking on OB. He changed a culture of losing under Pitino into winning and based on defense. I liked the direction with Walker,Pierce and co. And no Hagrid,I am not blaming Walker as it was lack of talent that did the Celtics in more than anything but he running out of gas as well as the rest of the team cost them a trip to the finals.</div> Which trend of Obies did you like? Yes, Obie got them over 500 I am sorry, but, Whoopie. We were on a downward trend, evidence : 5 games worse in 2003 than 2002, worse on the boards, pitiful in scoring, but oh yea, we played D, too bad we gave up so many rebounds that we couldnt stop anyone from putting up points against us. Aging players, most with bad knees, no caproom and even worse, no young talent. In case you had forgotten we traded that away for rodney rogers and Delk and for what? Something we had no shot at!! (If you think we had a prayer against the west, you are sadly mistaken) So where were we exactly? 15 mil over the cap, with a crew of aging, ballhogging, me first players. No prayer of signing anyone to help Pierce and Walker (Gaston wouldnt pay the tax and to top that off, no decent vet in their right mind, wants to play for a team that focuses on D and lets 2 players take 50% of the shots and has a coach that says play my way or the pine.) So what was Ainges thinking on Obie? Lets put this the way it should read, What was Obie thinking when he agreed to a retool? He had no intention of playing the youth, so why did he tell Danny he would? Why didnt he do as he said he would? When he wouldnt do what he agreed to, Danny forced his hand, exactly what a boss does when you arent doing what you are supposed to. Danny came right out and said before the season "we will have to sacrifice some wins in November and December to give the rookies some playing time" When exactly did Obie do this? Lets face the facts here, Obies pride wouldnt let him play the youth and take some loses to win later, he knew that was the plan all along, it couldnt have been made clearer. Obie was a good motivater, thats about it. His X's and O's sukked...if he even had any. The D was Harters, the O was non exsistant. As we were killed on the glass on a nightly basis Obies response was "We are not a very good rebounding team, we will have to find other ways to win" How do you win without the ball? To compound the problem, Obie left the 2 guys he proclaimed the "best rebounders on the team" (Hunter and Perkins) on the bench. So please, tell me which trend of Obies you liked.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44in05:</div><div class="quote_post">Which trend of Obies did you like? Yes, Obie got them over 500 I am sorry, but, Whoopie. We were on a downward trend, evidence : 5 games worse in 2003 than 2002, worse on the boards, pitiful in scoring, but oh yea, we played D, too bad we gave up so many rebounds that we couldnt stop anyone from putting up points against us. Aging players, most with bad knees, no caproom and even worse, no young talent. In case you had forgotten we traded that away for rodney rogers and Delk and for what? Something we had no shot at!! (If you think we had a prayer against the west, you are sadly mistaken) So where were we exactly? 15 mil over the cap, with a crew of aging, ballhogging, me first players. No prayer of signing anyone to help Pierce and Walker (Gaston wouldnt pay the tax and to top that off, no decent vet in their right mind, wants to play for a team that focuses on D and lets 2 players take 50% of the shots and has a coach that says play my way or the pine.) So what was Ainges thinking on Obie? Lets put this the way it should read, What was Obie thinking when he agreed to a retool? He had no intention of playing the youth, so why did he tell Danny he would? Why didnt he do as he said he would? When he wouldnt do what he agreed to, Danny forced his hand, exactly what a boss does when you arent doing what you are supposed to. Danny came right out and said before the season "we will have to sacrifice some wins in November and December to give the rookies some playing time" When exactly did Obie do this? Lets face the facts here, Obies pride wouldnt let him play the youth and take some loses to win later, he knew that was the plan all along, it couldnt have been made clearer. Obie was a good motivater, thats about it. His X's and O's sukked...if he even had any. The D was Harters, the O was non exsistant. As we were killed on the glass on a nightly basis Obies response was "We are not a very good rebounding team, we will have to find other ways to win" How do you win without the ball? To compound the problem, Obie left the 2 guys he proclaimed the "best rebounders on the team" (Hunter and Perkins) on the bench. So please, tell me which trend of Obies you liked.</div> I liked seeing a record over 500. Think for a second. You are saying outside of Pierce and Walker this team was not good and was on the downside. Yet we were winning. We didnt have any rebounders yet we were winning. Were pitiful offensively if the threes were not going down yet we were winning. I think offensively Ainge and OB may have saw eye to eye. Outside of that they did not. OB was loyal to his guys and when they all disappeared he was pissed. So be it. I trust Ainge and think we will be where we want down the road. But to diss on OB who brought this team out of a losing culture just aint right. He will do good things in Philly. It could be a nice little rivalrly developing. That would be good. BTW,did Perkins play much under Carrol? He was the best rebounder on the team. I must say the best rebounder was Mihm except he couldnt stay on the floor.
