<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">u guys already have a Rafael Araujo avator's, this dude is going to be a nba joke. anybody remember alex radovic (sp.)?</div> Araujo had a fairly successful career at BYU, so atleast he has some experience. You seem to be predicting a lot of negative things for the Raptors, for someone who probably hasn't even seen this guy play (judging by your comments) why are you making so many assumptions. Rafael will give us some much needed size, because hes 6'11 280. Alex Radojevic played at Barton County CC which is a community college, he didn't have much experience. Rafael averaged 18 ppg and 10 rpg in 30mpg this past season, so its evident he has some skill. For the amount of cap space we have left we won't be able to make a run at a big time FA center (Erick Dampier for example, who wants 10 mil. next year). Babcock made a choice which could be risky, but he filled a need that could possibly turn out well, now we can concentrate on getting a point guard, another big need of ours. If in fact, if we drafted a PG, we wouldn't be able to go out a sign a good center that easily, when you consider 29 other teams could be in the running, and of course theres a money issue. It is much easier to pick up a point guard in the FA market (because there are many), rather than a center.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thefranchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">Araujo had a fairly successful career at BYU, so atleast he has some experience. You seem to be predicting a lot of negative things for the Raptors, for someone who probably hasn't even seen this guy play (judging by your comments) why are you making so many assumptions. Rafael will give us some much needed size, because hes 6'11 280. Alex Radojevic played at Barton County CC which is a community college, he didn't have much experience. Rafael averaged 18 ppg and 10 rpg in 30mpg this past season, so its evident he has some skill. For the amount of cap space we have left we won't be able to make a run at a big time FA center (Erick Dampier for example, who wants 10 mil. next year). Babcock made a choice which could be risky, but he filled a need that could possibly turn out well, now we can concentrate on getting a point guard, another big need of ours. If in fact, we drafted a PG, we wouldn't be able to go out a sign a good center that easily, when you consider 30 other teams could be in the running, and of course theres a money issue. It is much easier to pick up a point guard in the FA market (because there are many), rather than a center.</div> are u a mlse employee? cause u are certainly regurgitating the company line. i swear i heard chuck swirsky say the same thing about centers being expensive. i watched "baby" a bit in the tournament and was unimpressed, thought as aforementioned he reminded me of a backend roster player. i heard he was cheapshot artist, feschuk article today documents that which is something that i don't think will go over too well in the nba. i love heart but athleticism and skill is needed as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thefranchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">If in fact, we drafted a PG, we wouldn't be able to go out a sign a good center that easily, when you consider 30 other teams could be in the running, and of course theres a money issue. It is much easier to pick up a point guard in the FA market (because there are many), rather than a center.</div> Exactly, and just to add on to that, you'll have to consider that not only are we competing with 30 other teams for centers, but we'll also have a very hard time attracting these players. With all the animosity going down last season in Raptorland b/w the front office & coaches, coaches & players, and players & front office it'll be very hard to convince free agents that'll we're a respectable team to play for. You'll also have to add the fact that we have half a roster, no head coach, and the fact that the majority of players don't want to play in Canada (whether it be the taxes, the weather, or whatever). People assume that all we have to do is sign a legitimate center via free agency or trade but it is not as easy as you think. I my mind, Babcock made the right choice.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">are u a mlse employee? cause u are certainly regurgitating the company line. i swear i heard chuck swirsky say the same thing about centers being expensive. i watched "baby" a bit in the tournament and was unimpressed, thought as aforementioned he reminded me of a backend roster player. i heard he was cheapshot artist, feschuk article today documents that which is something that i don't think will go over too well in the nba. i love heart but athleticism and skill is needed as well.</div> For once I'm just trying to have an open mind on things. Theres no point in getting mad especially when I can't change who we've drafted. I was furious when David Stern announced his name, but when I thought it over I looked at most of the positives and became neutral with the pick, I think we can get some solid play out of this guy. It's just up to Babcock to get us an efficient PG and some changes here and there, we might be alright.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thefranchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">For once I'm just trying to have an open mind on things. Theres no point in getting mad especially when I can't change who we've drafted. I was furious when David Stern announced his name, but when I thought it over I looked at most of the positives and became neutral with the pick, I think we can get some solid play out of this guy. It's just up to Babcock to get us an efficient PG and some changes here and there, we might be alright.</div> i think the raptors media concocted glaring weakness inside was just a matter of optics, cause on most nights i thought the raptor big men compensated with athleticism. however, the raptors big problem through the last 2 years since chris childs left was an inability to guard quick guards, the kinds that abound in the east. u think about it, the raptors always played detroit and indiana yet had problems with a much weaker new york squad. thats why i think the raptors need to trade for earl watson, i've proposed the trade twice on the forums and nobody has acknowledged it yet. here's the particular's vince and donyell for earl watson, bonzi wells and a resigned s.swift.
We don't acknowledge the Watson trade because their's not much we can offer to get him, I mean you can say Marshall, but Memphis has Gasol and Swift at the 4 and really don't need a 4, and with the crazy idea of him playing the 3 (he has before but he's not good at it), they have Posey, Bonzi, Battier, Dahntay Jones, they don't need to lose their only capable backup PG and one of the best in the league for Marshall. Troy Bell isn't likely playing for them anytime soon, maybe if we tried to trade for Bell.
...Vince AND Marshall for Watson, Wells and Swift? Okay, agreed that Watson is a quick PG who can also guard and shoot decently but giving up those two for the forementioned three? I don't know about anyone else in here but I wouldn't do that trade unless I was on some kind of a dope.. maybe for Peterson, Murray and Marshall but not for Vince and Marshall.. no way.. That Dave Faschuk or however the #!@# you spell his last name always writes negative articles about the Raps, kind of like that... what was that other brat's name oh yea Frank Zicarelli.. they almost sound like they feel they should be in the position to decide who the Raps pick as their coach/GM/draft pick/ well heck everything and are just ranting because they're not good enough to be in that position.. Btw what do you guys think of signing Rafer Alston if Nash isn't available? He played solid last season with the Heat averaging 31.5 mpg / 4.5 Apg / 10.2 ppg / 1.39 spg
if ur going to trade vince trade him with Araujo to Chicago for Kirk Hinrick Or Ben Gordan, and Tyson Chandler
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting DerfZ:</div><div class="quote_post">if ur going to trade vince trade him with Araujo to Chicago for Kirk Hinrick Or Ben Gordan, and Tyson Chandler</div> Guys stop going off topic, this thread is for the Draft, if you want to talk about trades talk about it in the Offseason thread. While I'm posting this I may as well add in that Vince and Babcock met recently and discussed the future of this organization. They both made it clear with themselves and the media that Vince will not be traded, however Babcock did say that if a perfect deal comes up he would consider it. I think all of you should drop the Vince trading unless we hear more evidence that he will be, but for now we haven't.
Why would the Raps want Hudson when Derek Fisher is a FA...he would definitely help us. Does anyone know of potential deals that would have had the RAPS picked much later? None of the other teams needed a BIG MAN except for the JAZZ who took Pavel (traded to MAVS)...the RAPS should've traded down for a mid-round pick...
Yes every1 thinks that Raptors should have traded down... BUT TO WHO AND WHERE? Jazz were interested in Araujo and would of picked him up @ 14th... so u gimme a place where u can trade down and lets hear it... and then give me a good reason why Raptors should of picked Nelson when 10 or more Teams HAD PASSED ON HIM??? So what i think was that Raptors had picked a Decent Center to play for him and i hope he can prove all of you nay-sayers wrong about him
Yes but how many teams passed on Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Andrei Kirilienko, Jamaal Tinsley, Cuttino Mobley, Ronald Murray, and even Earl Watson and Keith Bogans, so that's not really a valid reason. If you look at the board, only us, possibly Cleveland, Portland, Utah and Miami needed a PG. We picked Araujo, and filled another need, Cleveland probably wants to re-sign McInnis and might also feel Wagner's PG training is panning out so they filled their other need. Portland decided to take Telfair because they made a deal with him, feel he will be better down the road, and don't need immdiate point help because they still ahve Damon. Utah had more glaring needs in a SG and PF than they did in a PG, since they have Raul Lopez and Maurice Williams, and can still re-sign Arroyo. Miami decided to pick a future replacement for Eddie Jones instead of a PG, now this is where he really could've gone, but didn't happen, but it was 19th any ways so only one pick away from where he went. All those teams in between didn't need a PG. Anyways when Huffa becomes the next Brad Miller with a little more muscle the pick won't be bad.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">We don't acknowledge the Watson trade because their's not much we can offer to get him, I mean you can say Marshall, but Memphis has Gasol and Swift at the 4 and really don't need a 4, and with the crazy idea of him playing the 3 (he has before but he's not good at it), they have Posey, Bonzi, Battier, Dahntay Jones, they don't need to lose their only capable backup PG and one of the best in the league for Marshall. Troy Bell isn't likely playing for them anytime soon, maybe if we tried to trade for Bell.</div> i apologize ?franchise 3? for going off topic but these dudes are calling me out. whats the lunacy of trading vince and donyell for watson, bonzi and a re-signed swift. marshall would be the perfect compliment coming off the bench and would obviously replace swift. vince would become their first option and we know jerry west has a natural affinity for star shooting guards. btw, Watson was a backup point, they are under the luxary tax and i assume they can attract a serviceable backup. as for the raptors it provides us with depth, cap flexibility cause u are filling 3 vital rotations players for the salaries of two dudes and defensive prowess. this might strike u as an exaggeration but i firmly believe watson is the best defender from the point guard spot in the league. if u read the reply i felt it was crucial the raptors find a solid defender to guard the quick point guards that proliferate the east. here's the lineup; starters watson (pg) bonzi (sg) rose (third guard, there ain't many legit small forwards in the league) bosh (pf) araujo (c, keep your fingers crossed) bench swift (pf, imagine him and bosh on the court together throwing block parties) troy hudson (pg, remember the cap flexibility bit and that he and watson are interchangeable) alvin (less minutes maybe better performance) moiso and l.murray (may have redemption under a new coach) i think this lineup would give the raptors the fourth seed in the eastern conference
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes but how many teams passed on Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Andrei Kirilienko, Jamaal Tinsley, Cuttino Mobley, Ronald Murray, and even Earl Watson and Keith Bogans, so that's not really a valid reason. If you look at the board, only us, possibly Cleveland, Portland, Utah and Miami needed a PG. We picked Araujo, and filled another need, Cleveland probably wants to re-sign McInnis and might also feel Wagner's PG training is panning out so they filled their other need. Portland decided to take Telfair because they made a deal with him, feel he will be better down the road, and don't need immdiate point help because they still ahve Damon. Utah had more glaring needs in a SG and PF than they did in a PG, since they have Raul Lopez and Maurice Williams, and can still re-sign Arroyo. Miami decided to pick a future replacement for Eddie Jones instead of a PG, now this is where he really could've gone, but didn't happen, but it was 19th any ways so only one pick away from where he went. All those teams in between didn't need a PG. Anyways when Huffa becomes the next Brad Miller with a little more muscle the pick won't be bad.</div> point is the raptors haven't even had a second round pick that was even close other than jimmy king in the thomas regime. huffa = brad miller, mlse propaganda is the opium of the masses
Wasn't really serious about the Brad Miller thing, if you look at my sig I'm not the happiest person about getting Araujo, but what can I do now, kill the guy?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Wasn't really serious about the Brad Miller thing, if you look at my sig I'm not the happiest person about getting Araujo, but what can I do now, kill the guy?</div> if he dies now, he wouldn't count against the salary cap.
^I think you are getting into this conspiracy theory a little too much. MLSE picked the player who they thought would help them in the future. Of course they would spread propoganda about their pick because they supported the decision. There is no way that they would make a decision and then 2 days later say their pick is garbage. I don't even think that this pick is too horrible considering he was the second best rated centre behind Okafor. You have to look at the big picture. Obviously you have not even seen this guy play at all so it is too early to see the returns on his play or make comments about how bad a pick this was. They made this move to further the developement of Bosh at the 4. If we picked Jameer Nelson or Igoudala at #8 we would still have to play Bosh at centre. That is something the Raptors cannot do if they want this kid to be the franchise in the future. The GM's think that this kid can come in and play minutes right away so let's not start making comments until we have seen how this has panned out. And as far as cheapshot artists in the NBA go....Karl Malone and Dennis Rodman are both headed to the hall of fame and they are notorious for cheap shots like this kid Araujo. In regards to bringing in Bonzi, Swift and Watson here for Carter and Marshall: That trade does not give us equal value for Carter and Marshall whatsoever. Bonzi has never even averaged 20 points a game <font size="1">(The most he averaged was 17 points per game)</font>, Swift has a small foward body while playing the 4 while doing absolutely nothing worth noting in his NBA career and Watson would be an upgrade over Alvin at the point but he has never even had a full time starting job in the NBA. If you are telling me that this is fair value for Carter and Marshall and that Babcock would see no reason to reject this then we are living in fantasy basketball land, not the real world. Add in the fact that Carter is a marquee player whose face is directly related to the Raptors franchise and you have the most lopsided trade ever. It doesn't even satisfy both teams needs. Carter would not be in a position to be successful in Memphis due to the tight minutes and overall TEAM play <font size="1">(ball movement, moving without the ball, making the extra pass)</font> This trade makes no sense at all for both teams and if it isn't even rumoured to happen I would stop commenting on it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">^I think you are getting into this conspiracy theory a little too much. MLSE picked the player who they thought would help them in the future. Of course they would spread propoganda about their pick because they supported the decision. There is no way that they would make a decision and then 2 days later say their pick is garbage. I don't even think that this pick is too horrible considering he was the second best rated centre behind Okafor. You have to look at the big picture. Obviously you have not even seen this guy play at all so it is too early to see the returns on his play or make comments about how bad a pick this was. They made this move to further the developement of Bosh at the 4. If we picked Jameer Nelson or Igoudala at #8 we would still have to play Bosh at centre. That is something the Raptors cannot do if they want this kid to be the franchise in the future. The GM's think that this kid can come in and play minutes right away so let's not start making comments until we have seen how this has panned out. And as far as cheapshot artists in the NBA go....Karl Malone and Dennis Rodman are both headed to the hall of fame and they are notorious for cheap shots like this kid Araujo. In regards to bringing in Bonzi, Swift and Watson here for Carter and Marshall: That trade does not give us equal value for Carter and Marshall whatsoever. Bonzi has never even averaged 20 points a game <font size="1">(The most he averaged was 17 points per game)</font>, Swift has a small foward body while playing the 4 while doing absolutely nothing worth noting in his NBA career and Watson would be an upgrade over Alvin at the point but he has never even had a full time starting job in the NBA. If you are telling me that this is fair value for Carter and Marshall and that Babcock would see no reason to reject this then we are living in fantasy basketball land, not the real world. Add in the fact that Carter is a marquee player whose face is directly related to the Raptors franchise and you have the most lopsided trade ever. It doesn't even satisfy both teams needs. Carter would not be in a position to be successful in Memphis due to the tight minutes and overall TEAM play <font size="1">(ball movement, moving without the ball, making the extra pass)</font> This trade makes no sense at all for both teams and if it isn't even rumoured to happen I would stop commenting on it.</div> to the question of equal value, lets evaluate this. donyell had a great, breakout year and at 31 most suspect it was an aberration. consolidating those sentiments was is breakdown in the latter stages of the season. moreover, vince has been injury prone for the last 3 seasons, "half man, half season" charles barkley. bonzi is a scorer, maybe not to vince's capabilities but a scorer nonetheless, no disputing that. swift is long, agile, athletic and a presence on the defensive end. his offense is burgeoning, he's had a few breakthroughs and i expect him to have more. and this whole trade is predicated on watson, who i think is going to be a star in this league and in my humble opinion is the best defender from the point guard spot. now i understand that memphis uses a 10 man rotation which understandably is ideal for two injury prone individuals like donyell and vince. i really don't think jerry west will bypass a star like vince, he's still demands a double team and no player on the grizzlies enjoys that kind of distinction. u can summarily dismiss this trade, but i see it addressing both teams needs.
So we get a headcase in Bonzi, we get Swift who's an athletic PF, kinda like Bosh, and Watson a backup PG, a good one but still a backup for Vince and Donyell Marshall. So what's our lineup: PG: Watson/ Alvin SG: Rose/ Roger Mason SF: Bonzi/ Lammond PF: Bosh/ Swift/ Moiso C: Araujo/ Moiso This lineup really isn't that appealing. The Grizzlies become: PG: Jason Williams/ Troy Bell/ Burks SG: Vince Carter/ Mike Miller SF: James Posey/ Shane Battier/ Dahntay Jones PF: Pau Gasol/ Donyell Marshall/ Bo Outlaw C: Lorenzen Wright/ Tsakalidis Still don't see how it does more for us than them, they didn't fill any needs just traded a G-F for another G-F, lost their reliable backup PG, but they became a much more talented team with their starting 5, we got a PG though, that was the only thing, but the players weren't equal value for what we gave up, and we jut got players in the same positions as Vince and Marshall with Swift and Bonzi.
