Well, it seems that the odds are stacked high against the Pistons. Here are some reasons why I think the Pistons will beat the Lakers (btw, i put this in the general forum, because the Pistons/Lakers are the only teams left and everyone can discuss them): Defense. They said it wins championships. The Pistons are playing a level of defense unseen in the modern (shot clock) era. They've set historical records all season long. Sure, San Antonio plays great defense, but they haven't broken records and set milestones like the Pistons have. Remember 19 blocks in one game? Offense. The fashionable thing for analysts to say is: "how are the Pistons going to win scoring 60-70 points?" newsflash, the Pistons are scoring only 3.9 points per game less than the Lakers during the playoffs. that's two shots. that's in spite of the low scoring games that the Pistons played in. The Pistons aren't the same team, offensively, as they were last year. They can and do run the break when it presents itself. Playing on the road. The Pistons have shown to be a good road team during the playoffs. they beat Indiana (tied for the best home record during the regular season) 2 out of 3 times on their own floor. Rebounding. During the playoffs the Lakers are getting outrebounded on average, while the Pistons are outrebounding their opponents on average. When the Pistons control the boards, they are extremely tough to beat. Big bodies. During the playoffs, Shaq hasn't faced a team with as many big bodies as we have. This isn't a Shaq vs. Ben matchup. Shaq will face Ben, Sheed, Elden, Memo, maybe Corliss, and if everyone fouls out, maybe 7'1" Darko. Larry Brown has even shown a zone defense at times, which allows for some help on Shaq. Triangle defense. When the Lakers set up and run the triangle, it plays into the Piston's strength: half-court, help defense. The Pistons had the most trouble against the Nets who are a team that doesn't set up in the half court. Playoff tested. The Pistons have gone to 7 against the Nets and won tough games when many counted them out. They've played the NBA's top team in the Pacers and beat them. Element of surprise. Everyone is counting them out. The Pistons are a very strong team, mentally. Everyone in L.A. is getting ready for their victory parade. The Pistons have a chance to steal one in L.A. by throwing the first punch and catching the Lakers (and everyone else) by surprise. Sheed. Everyone's "x-factor" is Tayshaun, Rip, or even Memo. They forget that Sheed is finally healing from his foot and ankle injuries. He's closer to 100% health for the first time since the regular season. During the last 3-4 games of the Indiana series, Sheed has been playing his best basketball, since the regular season. He's posted double doubles and scored over 20 points a few times. Mark my words, Sheed will be huge in the Finals. Tayshaun Prince. In the NJ and Indiana series, he's had to focus on RJ and Artest. Remember the Milwaukee series when he guarded a lesser Desmond Mason? Well, get ready Devean George....I see Tayshaun stepping it up in the Finals. Tayshaun may defend Kobe a few times, but I see him on George a majority of the time. Well, that's all i have for now. Let the arguments commence
Those are really great arguments and I agree with every one of them. Especially that defense wins champions and the big bodies arguments, I also belive that the Pistons can win the Lakers, in a tough matchup.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">Well said, I think/hope you are right, lol. Also Darko is only 7'0 isnt he?</div>funny thing is, Darko was 7'0" when the season started. then there was this article that he grew 3/4" during the season, lol. and i guess he hasn't stopped growing. remember he should be a high school senior right now. plus he's packed on lots of muscle by reportedly using Ben Wallace's workout regimine. he might end up 7'1"-7'2" close to 300lbs. scary, huh?
those things that iamme said are not going to matter against the lakers. that's how good they are. you can't compare them to other teams. it's impossible. I like Rip Hamilton and all, but i don't think he can do good against Kobe. I mean there's a reason why he's in the All-Defensive Team this year.
The winning on the road thing, though they may have done that this year, there is something that the Lakers haven't done this year. That thing would be lose at home in the playoffs. They're 9-0 so far this postseason at Staples. The Pistons have to win at least one game at Staples I think and, considering the Spurs and the TWolves couldn't do it, two teams both better than the Pistons I think, I don't the Pistons doing it.
well obviously the die hard lakers fan will not agree, but even if i were a fan of the lakers i would still agree with everything iamme said and say the pistons will prevail and beat the lakers. i dont care what anyone says, i think the pistons can take it. everyone thinks the lakers are the best team in the league and the pistons have no chance...... wlel i guess we'll know by next week.
i dont care who win i just want it to go to 7 games and somebody hitting another 0.4 second shot to win it
Quote: "newsflash, the Pistons are scoring only 3.9 points per game less than the Lakers during the playoffs" 3.9 points per game is a lot. Take a look at the team stats for the season and see how many teams are separated by 3.9 points. More importantly, Detroit is shooting .407 for the playoffs as opposed to .452 for the Lakers, a huge difference. In my opinion, the largest intangible is Kobe, who has shown that he will put up the big numbers when the Lakers need him and basically has done anything and everything possible to will them to victory. Rip is a very good player but in terms of intangibles, he is not quite on Kobe's level yet.
All of your reason's are good but my laker's got a future hall of famer[Kobe], three of them are already in[Shaq, GP, Malone]. Not to mention there bench and new guy's in the league like Kareem Rush, Brian Cook, & Luke Walton + they got Byron Russell and those other vets like Rick Fox. While the piston's have Mike Jame's and Lindsey Hunter as there powerhouse bench players. Just cant see it happening, but things could happen.
As much as I want the Pistons to win, I don't think it will happen. I think the Lakers have more experience. They have veterans of the game, like Payton and Malone who have played in finals against Jordan. On top of that, the Lakers have won 3 championships (that I can remember). To me (at least), the Pistons are a young team. I think in the end, experience will win. I don't think the Lakers would lose to young ones like Prince, when some of them have played in finals against Michael Jordan.
Though I do agree with a few of your points, I agree with Van Exel. They have done a nice job defensively and have had a great playoff run but all those stats don't matter against the Lakers. Ben Wallace along with Rashee have done a nice job defending inside, but they haven't played a real center in the playoffs, and no one near Shaq. It's different when you play a guy 7'1 and 350LBS, and even Ben will be pushed around all over the court. Same with the rebounding, it's much easier for the Wallaces to grab boards when you don't have to go up against a giant. They also have a guy like Karl who will make Detroit spread their inside D, because he can hit that outside shot. I really don't play into this "the East is weak" stuff, but it does make a huge difference in the C spot. I'll take the Lakers in 5 this series.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting A-Halo:</div><div class="quote_post">well obviously the die hard lakers fan will not agree, but even if i were a fan of the lakers i would still agree with everything iamme said and say the pistons will prevail and beat the lakers</div> And what are you a diehard fan of?
Well I think realistically to have a chance to beat the Lakers, Billups is going to have to have his best series of the playoffs by far. He has been kind of up & down so far in the playoffs but the Billups & the Pistons must have a clear edge in the point guard position for them to win this series. Also the Pistons are going to have to speed the game up. When you force the Lakers into an up & down game the Lakers often stop going into shaq on a consistent basis And you full court pressure defenders like Lindsey Hunter must pick gary payton & Fisher up full court to deny the ball from entering down low to the Shaq Also I think when guys like Okur, & Campbell are in the game they must produce some baskets. The more the Pistons front line scores the more shaq has to work on defense. Which benefits the Pistons when they are trying to stop Shaq on the other end of the court. One thing the Pistons have in their favor is that Rasheed plays away from the basket, which means he should be able to score on Karl Malone. KG proved when you play away from the basket, you can score on Karl Malone's defense. But if you just stay stationary trying to post Malone up, he is able to shut you down. So Rasheed should be able to switch up his inside-outside attack up, very effectively vs Malone D. I expect to see the Pistons use more point guard pick & roll in the half court than Wolves did, due to the fact that they have a healthy pg & more moible bigmen then the wolves (outside of KG). So this is really going to be the 1st time the Lakers' pick & roll defense will be tested since the series with the Spurs. I think that Ben Wallace should get alot of easy baskets out of the pick & roll, when he rolls toward the basket due to the fact he should be able to beat Shaq toward the hoop everytime after setting the pick, so Billups just has to find him for those easy layups. Prince's lenght should have an affect on Kobe shooting, but he cant keep up with Kobe when Kobe puts the ball on the floor. So I expect Darvin Ham to see his fare share of time guarding Kobe when he comes off the bench. He has also been a pretty good defender since his days with the bucks, so he may slow Kobe down from time to time. I think for the Pistons, their best defense for Kobe maybe Rip Hamiltons' offense. If Kobe ends up having to chase Hamitlon around screeens all night that may help to slow down Kobe offense. But I expect Kareem rush to spend alot of time chasing RIP, unless he gets really hot & the Lakers will be forced to put Kobe on him.
pistons have no chance 1. l.a.s defense i better look what they did to the spurs.. 2 l.a.s offense is way more reliable they have kobe the best one on one player in the leauge an always go to man in shaq and karl malone and payton just add to it 3.Youre right about the road advantage detroit has but l.a will take them seriously. 4, true the lakers have been outrebounded but shaq is averaging 14.9 rebounds every two games with the rest of the team averaging 5.7 5 true alot of the detrit players have big bodies but shaq is the strongest and most dominant in the leauge 6 Phil Jakson knows that and i beleive he will put in other patterns or let the lakers just play 7 tru but why would a team want to go 7 games when they could finish it in 5 or 6? 8 I doubt that the first game is in L.A. the lakers will be ready mentally and physically 9 Sheed has been the x factor inthe eastern bracket are you all forgetting how karl malone shut duncan down and held kg to 20 pts or under? He shouldnt have trouble with sheed 10 Gayshaun Princecan't handle george or kobe he will get shut down and sent home crying in 5 games with no ring. And the so called block that saved them in the eastern finals was a goaltend!
You're points are nicely stated, but they're not gonna work against the Lakers. First of all, the Pistons have no body capaple of guarding Kobe, you'll see Phil running pick n' roll all the time. Secondly, as good of a defender as Big Ben is, he better not be guarding Shaq, the height advantage could cost Larry Brown a fortune if he goes with this matchup. Also, I don't think that the Pistons' front court will be affective on the offensive end, Big Ben found his way the last three series' on offence because he was guarded by Joe Smith, Jason Collins, and Jeff Foster and he out-musceled them, do you really think he can out muscele Shaq? .. Malone guarded Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett in the last two series, argubley the best two players on the planet, and he did a great job on them considering that it's impossible to shut them down, but at stretches both Garnett and Duncan were ineffective because of the Mailman's defence, and now he'll have to deal with Rasheed Wallace which is an easier task than the previous two. The one concern as a Laker fan is, that the Lakers didn't face an All Star type shooting guard in the playoffs so far, which is presented in Rip Hamilton. You will see Derek Fisher a lot on Rip, because he's the best guy on the Lakers that can run and defend off the screens, but Kobe have to take some of that pressure too. As for the Chauncy Billups/Gary Payton matchup, Phill Jackson will be more than comfortable if Chauncy keeps jacking up those long range shots, and if he penetrates they'll use the same thing that they used against Parker in their last 4 games of that series, which is bound him and take him out of his rythm by fouling him hard and making Rasheed and Tyshaun and Corliss hit the outside shots. What I think Larry Brown will do is that he'll send douple teams on both Kobe and Shaq once they touch the ball, and he'll make the other role players beat him, and that's a scary thought when you let two Hall Of Famers in Payton and Malone beat you. That's why despite all your reasons, I still think the Pistons' won't be able to handle them.
<u>Iamme:</u> While I'm going to reitterate what you've already said about the chips being stacked against the Pistons, that post was damn good and well thought out and expressed. I'm sure I could find something to debate among those points, but honestly, just don't want to spoil my enjoyment of the post. <font color="DarkRed">The JUGGERNAUT MUST FALL.</font> <font size="7"><font color="Navy">Go PISTONS!</font></font> :thumbsup:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Air Canada:</div><div class="quote_post">You're points are nicely stated, but they're not gonna work against the Lakers. First of all, the Pistons have no body capaple of guarding Kobe, you'll see Phil running pick n' roll all the time. Secondly, as good of a defender as Big Ben is, he better not be guarding Shaq, the height advantage could cost Larry Brown a fortune if he goes with this matchup. Also, I don't think that the Pistons' front court will be affective on the offensive end, Big Ben found his way the last three series' on offence because he was guarded by Joe Smith, Jason Collins, and Jeff Foster and he out-musceled them, do you really think he can out muscele Shaq? .. </div> well, Ben won't be look upon to score very much. he had a few games when he caught on fire, but those the exception, not the norm. also, Ben won't be guarding Shaq 1-on-1 very often. i expect LB to throw everyone at him to see what yields the best results. no one's going to stop Shaq, just slow him down on offense and tire him out on defense. with Sheed and Memo, you have 7 footers who can drain the three. if Shaq doesn't step out to guard them, they can nail those shots. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Malone guarded Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett in the last two series, argubley the best two players on the planet, and he did a great job on them considering that it's impossible to shut them down, but at stretches both Garnett and Duncan were ineffective because of the Mailman's defence, and now he'll have to deal with Rasheed Wallace which is an easier task than the previous two. The one concern as a Laker fan is, that the Lakers didn't face an All Star type shooting guard in the playoffs so far, which is presented in Rip Hamilton. You will see Derek Fisher a lot on Rip, because he's the best guy on the Lakers that can run and defend off the screens, but Kobe have to take some of that pressure too. </div> if Derek Fisher is on Rip, I expect him to score 25-30 a game. Fisher is 6'1" and Rip is 6'7". Rip will have clean looks all night. i highly doubt we'll see Fisher play Rip that often. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for the Chauncy Billups/Gary Payton matchup, Phill Jackson will be more than comfortable if Chauncy keeps jacking up those long range shots, and if he penetrates they'll use the same thing that they used against Parker in their last 4 games of that series, which is bound him and take him out of his rythm by fouling him hard and making Rasheed and Tyshaun and Corliss hit the outside shots. </div> The Pistons play their best basketball when Chauncey is making plays for others, rather than finding his own shots. He spots up and takes threes only when the ball goes inside first. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What I think Larry Brown will do is that he'll send douple teams on both Kobe and Shaq once they touch the ball, and he'll make the other role players beat him, and that's a scary thought when you let two Hall Of Famers in Payton and Malone beat you. </div> again, the Pistons play the best help defense in the league. unless Kobe is on fire (which could happen of course), i don't see Larry doubling him often. LB may throw a zone at the Lakers every now and then, though. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's why despite all your reasons, I still think the Pistons' won't be able to handle them.</div>
