2004 NBA Finals Pistons @ Lakers (Game 1)

Pistons can win game 2 and the Lakers would still win the series. I'm sorry, but they are not in the Laker's league when they're motivated.

 

Few people agree with the fact that Shaq isn't a great player. The fact is, there's just few people in the NBA built to stop Shaq, and those who have the capability can usually do an ok job at it. I have always hated Shaqs game. You have people in the NBA with actual skills, Kobe, Kidd, Wallace, etc., then you have this one guy who can't run, can't play defense, and can't shoot. It's like watching 7.5" football player stand in the end-zone and catching a pass over a 6" safety by simply putting his hands in the air and maybe jumping a few inches off the ground. At least the Pistons learned to just foul him under the hoop and let him have his 1 out of 2 free throws. Shaqs only plan, get the ball inside, use his weight and size to back into the lane, shoot a lay-up. Yeah, he's good at scoring, but is he really that great of a player?

 

Pistons stealin a win at L.A. is pretty damn impressive, and I think unlike most people's predictions, they can make some miracles happen, don't underrate them so much. Their defence can't get any better at this point, Chauncey Billups keep pushin the ball inside, Hamilton playin fearless, and Ben bein... well N-a-s-t-y as always. Gary Payton and Karl Malone need to wake up for real, Payton's been a non-factor pretty much the whole time since playoff started, but I'm still thinkin Lakers in Game 7 though. I do wish Pistons would somehow make it happen...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">The Pistons definitely played great straight up man to man defense, however the Pistons have plenty of players that aren't great straight up man to man defenders. Richard Hamilton is getting a free pass defensively having to guard Devean George. Devean has not used his height to his advantage on offense his entire career. Gary Payton is giving Chauncey Billups a free pass on the defensive end (four shot attempts?). Why Payton refuses to push the ball on misses and penetrate (often) in the half court in the finals in befuddling. The Pistons do not want to run w/ the Lakers. They want to keep the game in the seventies. Every Piston who comes off of the bench is a liability defensively and the Lakers need to exploit their weaknesses. The only good perimeter defender the Pistons' have is Tashaun Prince. It is a lot easier for Rasheed to guard Karl Malone on the perimeter than it is for him to guard Karl in the post where Karl has a strength advantage and is savvy enough to get Rasheed in foul trouble. Getting Ben Wallace in foul trouble will decimate the Pistons on the boards (the reason why he remains a leader in the league in rebounds is b/c no one else on the Pistons seems to care about rebounding). Instead of hoisting up contested jump shots why not penetrate via the dribble or a pass into the post and put pressure on the posts to play straight up defense w/o fouling. This will then set up the perimeter game and those contested shots will soon become less (or un)contested. So of course good defense plays a large role in poor shooting, however, poor offensive execution plays a large role too. The Lakers need to do a better job of exploiting mismatches and dictating tempo.</div>

LMAO , you are kidding me right?

1 - Off the Bench...Campbell was the one that played the best Defense against shaq , 2 blocks , 2 steals.

- Williamson help to keep the 4 big guys resting from Shaq and took 3 fouls without letting Shaq get near the rim.

- Lindsay Hunter and the rest of the guys bring energy and DO play defense you gotta be kidding with that one right?

2. "Ben Wallace dominates the boards because the other Pistons don't seem to care about rebounding??"

hmm ,,,,, I'll answer that quote with some simple stats from last night:

- Richard Hamilton: 7 Rebs
- Chauncy Billups:3 Rebs
- Tayshau Prince:6 Rebs
- Rasheed Wallace: 8 Rebs
- Ben Wallace: 8 Rebs

so , other players don't care about rebounding? Ben Wallace should've had 32 Rebs then huh?

3. Billups is a very strong PG .. he can give GP a really good fight and can completely DOMINATE Fisher.

4. Karl was 2-9? Sheed can hold him in the post aswell..he is 6'11 with long ass arms and a great defensive player(timing , guessing next moves etc.)

Stop making poor excuses , Lakers got OWNED by Defense(if that's possible)

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Undertakernv:</div><div class="quote_post">You haven't been paying attention then. Phil is no longer using the same offense that he usually does. This isn't a true triangle offense. He has kind of allowed a more free flowing offense in order to allow some iso. Overall its still giving it to Shaq and allowing him to run the offense but not in the same respect as it is usually done.</div>

Iso against detroit? Well I didn't see much of that in yesterday's game, but if that is true, it's a horrible idea. Even if Kobe (the only Laker good enough to be isolated) beats Price off the dribble (or whoever is defending him) Detroit's defense always rotates and they have the best shot blocker in the game backing them up.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, in case you missed it, Phil did use the pick and roll to help GP get in a rhythm against San Antonio.</div>

At what point during the San Antonio series did GP EVER get in a rhythm?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Detroit07:</div><div class="quote_post">Lakers = MOST OVER-RATED TEAM IN THE NBA. The majority of their players aren't basketball players, their business men. Their lack of determination and heart was highlighted by the pistons domination of them at the Staples Center. Maybe the Lakers will bring a team who wants to win for the love of the game instead of for the love of the green. </div>

So are u insinuating that the T-wolves, Spurs, and Rockets are all overrated too?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TMac_OwNz:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe didn't shut Hamilton down..he just had a bad night he had great looks while Kobe was trapped behind a WALLace.</div>

dude, u need to get off your anti-kobe campaign. He played great defense on Rip, cause 6 turnovers, grabbed 4 steals, blocked him twice....unfortunately for the Lakers, Prince was almost equally as impressive on defense.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TMac_OwNz:</div><div class="quote_post">LMAO , you are kidding me right?

1 - Off the Bench...Campbell was the one that played the best Defense against shaq , 2 blocks , 2 steals.

- Williamson help to keep the 4 big guys resting from Shaq and took 3 fouls without letting Shaq get near the rim.

- Lindsay Hunter and the rest of the guys bring energy and DO play defense you gotta be kidding with that one right?

2. "Ben Wallace dominates the boards because the other Pistons don't seem to care about rebounding??"

hmm ,,,,, I'll answer that quote with some simple stats from last night:

- Richard Hamilton: 7 Rebs
- Chauncy Billups:3 Rebs
- Tayshau Prince:6 Rebs
- Rasheed Wallace: 8 Rebs
- Ben Wallace: 8 Rebs

so , other players don't care about rebounding? Ben Wallace should've had 32 Rebs then huh?

3. Billups is a very strong PG .. he can give GP a really good fight and can completely DOMINATE Fisher.

4. Karl was 2-9? Sheed can hold him in the post aswell..he is 6'11 with long ass arms and a great defensive player(timing , guessing next moves etc.)

Stop making poor excuses , Lakers got OWNED by Defense(if that's possible)</div>

What excuse did I make again? I did say that the Pistons played excellent defense yesterday, but if you would like me to validate my points that will not be a problem.

Elden Campbell played w/ Shaq for a couple of seasons in L.A. He probably has a better understanding of Shaq's tendencies more than anyone on the Piston's roster. In saying that Shaq did go for 34 and 11 on 13-16 shooting and 8-12 from the line. So if you are telling me that Campbell is a defensive stopper then he should play 48 minutes a game. (He is in the twilight of his career and he never had the reputation for being a shut down defender, just a weak side shot blocker).

Taking fouls against Shaq, while at times very effective, is not great defense. I don't care how many times Williamson fouled Shaq, he is not a good defender. He is a small forward who can't move his feet laterally. His defense really only consists of hard fouls.

Lindsay Hunter is a pesky defender but is a liability b/c of his height. All it takes to neutralize his effectiveness on defense is to force him to guard someone taller. If the Lakers were to go to Payton or Kobe in the post while Hunter was guarding him you would see his defense get exploited. (He is the only player on the Piston's bench who you could make the argument that he is a good defender)

Before the acquisition of Rasheed Wallace the Pistons were in the bottom five in the entire league in total rebounding (two seasons ago they were ranked dead last). Rasheed has helped but you would think someone who is that talented, long, and athletic would have a career rebounding average of well over seven rebounds a game. Yesterday the Pistons did an excellent job on the glass but I would like you to make that same comparison as the series moves on (or look at past series).

Billups did dominate Payton last night. Payton needs to make Billups expend energy on defense (we were saying the same thing).

Karl Malone led the NBA in foul shooting attempts for much of his 19 year career. He has matched up w/ Rasheed many times in his career and found a way to be effective in the post. Even if he isn't the same player now that he was 3 or 4 years ago he is still strong enough and aggressive enough to force Wallace to play defense in the post. Too many of his shots last night were from the outside and I think that he needs to challenge both Wallace's even if it means that his shot gets blocked a couple of times. They will probably wear down before Karl does.

The Pistons played unbelievable individual defense last night. The Lakers need to do a better job executing on offense. Any questions?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">can agree Detroit has shown that they are the strong favorite to win the series </div>
i'll give them credit where it's due, but the lakers are still the favorite to win it.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Everyone says that Shaq can't be stopped, but they forget that Shaq isn't a great basketball player </div>
dude, name me one player on the pistons better than shaq?

I understand making a thread about how everyone underestimated the pistons but the way you insulted shaq is just ignorance.


<font color="red">Thread moved. ~Dre</font>

 

To win a basketball game, you need to put the ball in the basket, right? I don't care how you do it, but as long as the ball is in, it's 2 points. Shaquille does that better than anybody right now. Therefore, he accomplishes what is needed from him at the best possible level. As a result, he is great at basketball.

 

What the hell is up with all you Lakers Haters?! Pistons in 4... I highly dought it.

And it's just normal for a guy like Shaq to shoot like ****! His hands are just too big. Let's see you Anti-Shaqs trying to shot with small balls! Sure....with lots and lots of practise he might get better at it, but no matter how hard he tries, I don't think he would be able to be a 90% ft shooter.

And my prediction for the Lakers/Pistons Finals is 4-2Lakers. If the Lakers can get past the Spurs, believe me, they WILL get past Pistons and win yet an other Championship.

 

What you are trying to say, Iron Shiek, is that the Lakers lost because they failed to exploit the Pistons' "short comings". That is making excuses. Simple as that.

The fact that they lost because they didn't exploit those "short comings" is as valid of a fact as, for an example, Clippers lost a game to Spurs because they're just a better team. The Lakers could've won that game if they did bla bla bla, but the fact remains: they didn't. They lost. Fair and square. They need to do this, that could've happen, bla bla bla, all that is just yappin excuses.

Now you tried to pull some BS such as Pistons doesn't rebound as a team (that's a joke) and I'm not going to even write to prove that everything you've said in your initial post quoting me is wrong. You've said some weird things like telling Karl to post up against Sheed... Hello, Shaq is in there too? Why crowd the paint by pulling Karl in or even considering posting Karl up if Shaq is just torching them?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe wasnt shut down either, he took too many shots, he tried to be the man, he had a great defensvie game, completely SHUT DOWN Rip cuasing him to go 5-16 from the field.</div>

I wouldn't say Kobe necessarily shut Richard Hamilton down. He had more of a good defensive game on Hamilton. But Tayshaun Prince also deserves some credit as well. He did an even better defensive job guarding Kobe (10-27) than the defensive job that Kobe did on Hamilton. Tayshaun Prince length was really aggravating Kobe. He was a little hesitant in taking some shots he would often take against other defenders.

I think that game was a turning point. Last night game shown that the Pistons can INDEED beat the Lakers. I was surprised as well as the media, Laker fans and the Lakers themselves that the Pistons did a number on them in LA. The strategy that Larry Brown had was real simple and something that other coaches haven't though about. Let Shaq and Kobe get their points and worry about the remaining 7/8 other guys on the team (If only he had that strategy back in 2001 ).

But then again this could be history repeating itself. This is the same thing that happened in 2001 Finals with the 76ers. Although, the 76ers worked hard for that win, the Pistons won with a 12-point cushion. So this is something that Lakers should be aware of. I still believe the Lakers will win the series in 5/6, but Karl Malone and Gary Payon needs to step up. They say their hungry for a ring. And now is the time for them to show how hungry the really are.

 

Detroit07: We won but lets not get cocky, yet. The series isn't over and the Lakers are a good team. However, Detroit doesn't suck either.

Shaq is a difficult player to judge, when he was in his early days, you could see the skill, the glamour, everything. Now, he outweighs everybody, and as effective as he is at putting the ball into the basket, seeing a 350 pound guy bump people out of the way with his ass is not that exciting. Is he a effective player? Yes. Was he better when he wasn't as fat? Yes. Would I want him on my team? Yes.

The reason that I'm so pissed off at the Lakers is at how they thought the Finals would be a cakewalk. Those arrogant idiots and the ass-kissing announcers just vexed me to an excrutiating point where I almost broke my damn TV.

Lakers thought they could score 100 points on the Pistons even if the D played some good D. HAH!

Lakers thought Pistons can't score 80. HAH!

Lakers thought the series would be a sweep. Well, it very well still might be.

Edit: On the Kobe/Rip. Kobe is a better player than Rip. That is the end of it. Prince held a true superstar in the league to 10-27 shooting, which is pretty damn impressive. Rip missed some jumpers and didn't score that much but still had an impressive stat line: 12 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists. If not for the turnovers then it will be perfect.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">The Pistons definitely played great straight up man to man defense, however the Pistons have plenty of players that aren't great straight up man to man defenders. Richard Hamilton is getting a free pass defensively having to guard Devean George. Devean has not used his height to his advantage on offense his entire career. Gary Payton is giving Chauncey Billups a free pass on the defensive end (four shot attempts?). Why Payton refuses to push the ball on misses and penetrate (often) in the half court in the finals in befuddling. The Pistons do not want to run w/ the Lakers. They want to keep the game in the seventies. Every Piston who comes off of the bench is a liability defensively and the Lakers need to exploit their weaknesses. The only good perimeter defender the Pistons' have is Tashaun Prince. It is a lot easier for Rasheed to guard Karl Malone on the perimeter than it is for him to guard Karl in the post where Karl has a strength advantage and is savvy enough to get Rasheed in foul trouble. Getting Ben Wallace in foul trouble will decimate the Pistons on the boards (the reason why he remains a leader in the league in rebounds is b/c no one else on the Pistons seems to care about rebounding). Instead of hoisting up contested jump shots why not penetrate via the dribble or a pass into the post and put pressure on the posts to play straight up defense w/o fouling. This will then set up the perimeter game and those contested shots will soon become less (or un)contested. So of course good defense plays a large role in poor shooting, however, poor offensive execution plays a large role too. The Lakers need to do a better job of exploiting mismatches and dictating tempo.</div>

Do you really think that the problem is that the Lakers didn't penetrate. I appreciate you giving props to Detroit's D but still saying that the Lakers can just make some quick adjustments and that it will all be fixed. Detroit plays great team defense and can rotate against players that are penetrating. The Bucks, Nets, and Pacers had a combined 18 games to switch their offense up but in the end, the Piston's defense held. Don't give me excuses that the Nets and Bucks have no offense, because they could easily score 100 on almost any team on the league. When you play the Pistons, you realize the hard way that our defense works together and that adjustments can only get you so far, so quick. You can't switch your whole offense around or your team will bomb. You continue to do what got you into the Finals, maybe switch some minutes here and there, and hope for the best.

 

Chungster, if the Pistons sweep, would you say that the Pistons were a better team or that "the Lakers weren't motivated to win", even with Malone and Payton wanting a ring and everybody not caring about the West but wanting the gold trophy.

At some point you have to admit that Detroit is a good team and that they do pose a serious threat to the Lakers.

 

Everyone claims Shaq played a great game, which is true, if you don't count the defensive end. As to the opposite of what Kobe did, Shaq played great offense but not-so-good defense. He didn't even have much of an assignment in the first place on the defensive side, but he continued to let the Pistons get inside all night long. He was able to get into the paint for points and offensive boards with ease, but only grabbed 6 defensive boards in 45 minutes. Kobe on the other hand played great defense, but his shot selection was pretty ugly. So if you really want to think about this game the Lakers only had one player show up for each side of the court.. That's not cutting it.

I'm sure the Lakers will come out with a totally different style of play tomorrow night, and although I don't know if it will be successful, anything will be better than last night's game. I expect Kobe to continue his good defense and for Shaq to put his foot in the middle of the paint for game 2, otherwise they'll make it very tough for themselves to try to pull out the victory.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont know if Prince did a better job guarding Kobe, than Kobe did on Rip...it may look that way, btu Kobe always has, and always will take more shots than Rip, so it looks that way.</div>

The reason why it may seem as if Kobe "Shut Hamilton down" was because everyone was anticipating for this match-up. The media was hyping it up since day one. They were constantly referring to this match-up (Kobe and Hamilton) to be the deciding factor in Game 1 and quite possibly the entire series. Being that Kobe had a better game than Hamilton, it was all said and done. Just because he had a better game than Hamilton dosen't mean he had a good game.

But Kobe numbers for that game can be deceiving, not only was his FG% low. But if you look at the way Kobe was playing on the court, he was taking and forcing some bad shots, which he rarely does. His great passing game was also not in his arsenal that night. And Prince was denying Kobe the ball as well as forcing turnovers. Although, Kobe only had 3 turnovers Kobe fumbled the ball at times especially in 1st quarter but someone one the Lakers would pick it up. Any way you look at it, Prince had a better defensive game than Kobe that night. And for a player at Kobe Bryant caliber Prince did a great job.