Phil jackson is a great coach. He's won 9 championships in the NBA where winning one has eluded many a great coach and is UNDOUBTABLY about to win his tenth and every bias laker fan and some bulls fans are going to start screaming "thats it!! hes the greatest coach ever!!" Do yourself and your credibillity a favor. DONT listen to them. It's Red Auerbachs name and cigar wielding figure on the coach of the year trophy and it's no fluke or conspiracy that it will remain that way. Phil Jackson could win another five titles and still not accomplish what Red did. Jacksons players have revolutionized how the game is played, but Red did that himself and his "coaching" achievments go far beyond the bench and the cigar. Phil Jackson went to the Bulls win Jordan was already there. He went to the lakers when Shaq was already there. Sure he deserves credited for sealing the deal where others failed, but his championships were practically giftwrapped for him. He never had an integral role in developing his teams like red auerbach did. You might say that Red was fortunate enough to play on a team with 8 hall of famers and you'd be right ecxept for one KEY factor: It wasn't luck. He BUILT those teams. he did his own scouting on nights off and was his own travel secratary and general manager and everything. Nowadays coaches like Phil Jackson on teams like the lakers or any franchise have about 55 guys that collectively do the work putting the team together that red auerbach did himself. Imagine if he had been able to choose to go to teams with Wilt or Mikan or Kareem? he'd probably have enough rings for his toes too. And don't forget, Red coached in a different way by building the celtics championship teams of the 70's and 80's too. You might say, "but Funky, you can't just count his achievments as an executive as putting him over jackson in coaching ability! Jackson is the Zen Master of player psychology and his creation the triangle offense has almost as much to do with his success as his players." Fine, lets just talk about coaching on the court. Why do you think so many basketball writers and alums of the league hate red auerbach? its not coz hes been a stubborn pr**k in his old age! most of those guys are the ones he humiliated and made look physically and mentally small when they played in the 50's and 60's. For those of you who don't know, Red Auerbach lit up a cigar during games (before America became a facist regime and banned smoking at sporting events. home of the free indeed) when he was certain that the celtics would not lose. sometimes he did it with a minute left, sometimes with a quarter left. the celtics NEVER lost after that cigar had been lit. not once. thats a much more powerful a mind game/psyche out than any of Phils "Zen voodoo." Red and Phil are both masters of on court strategy, but Red literally wrote the book on coaching basketball. Phil Jackson didnt even invent his famous triangle offense. It was created by a fella named Tex Winters. Im not a big fan of comparing players and coaches from today to those who played/coached in the 50's 60's etc. the league has changed so much thats its really hard to compare. Phil Jackson is no matter how you look at it one of the best coaches ever in the league, but before you start petitioning to add a little bronze version of him to bench next to red on teh coach of the year award you should give all these points some serious concideration. To be honest, the fact that Jackson coaches today and not in the 60's can hurt the arguement for his superiority as much as it can support it. There may not have been as many playoff series back then, but there were much fewer teams. the talent level of the league is generally higher now, but back then it was much less spread out and therefor less watered down. Imagine if the lakers and bulls had to play only the 8-12 best teams in the league every game! scary thought? uh....yah! Red Auerbach is the best coach in the history of the NBA
^ you don't actually expect anyone to read all that do you..? I usually read even the long posts but after getting two sentences into your post I started feeling dizzy from the last sentence though I'm guessing this is the beginning of the debate whether Phil Jackson is the best coach ever, or if it's Red Auerbach.. or maybe even someone else?? Either way we already have a thread about this... no need for another thread. Everyone has their own opinions, but I disagree. As I've said in the other thread which discussed the same exact topic, I really don't like Phil at all but I still think he's the best coach ever. Why? eventhough he's been blessed with talent all his years, you could also say the same about Auerbach. From all the different teams and chemestry problems Phil's had to deal with thoughout his coaching I'd say he's the best ever.. But then I wasn't around for the time of Red Auerbach and I don't know anything about him, so I'm sure millions of other people have different opinons on this. There is no right answer for who the best basketball coach was.. nor will there ever be.
Yeah, lakers had shaq, bulls had jordan, but lakers also had kobe didnt they? A coachs job is to make the team a great one and you cant just say yeah cause they had one brilliant player its easier to make a great team. With more brilliant player its much harder than with a lot of good players. Phil remains the best in my opinion, you might disagree. btw, agreeing with phreeze, way too long
I disagree with olskool. I think it is Phil. If you look at the Bulls and the Lakers before he came, sure, the Bulls had Jordan and Pippen and the Lakers had Kobe and Shaq, but, did they ever win a title? No, not one. Just because you have great players on your team, doesn't mean you have what it takes to win the title. In order to win the title, those great players must have some type of direction. They need a good coach to help them along the way and show them what it takes to win it all. Phil was that. That's why he's won 9 titles and possibly on his way to a 10th. He takes the teams with great individual players and teaches them how to win and play as a team. That's why I think he's the best.
Just read it guys. itll save us a lot of repitition. its not THAT long and makes some exellent points that counter the things youve just said. It admits that Red Auerbach was just as blessed with great talent, talent that HE selected and developed himself; something Phil has never done. Yes Phil having such great players means he ahd to juggle serious egos to win but again, Red had to do that even more. At one time he took a tteam with 8 hall of famers (and they knew they were hall of famers too) to win 8 straight championships. just read the post. and it should be moved back to the NBA forum because its not just about the lakers, it involves the bulls, the celtics and pretty much the whole league
there. now ive broken up the post by the points. its a very articulate and well organized little column and really is a fast read. and the points made are all facts ecxept a few premises. read it and im sure some of you will think twice about what u have said. u could say that the main point of it is that everything Phil has done, Red did and Red did a lot of things that Phil hasnt been able to or tried to do
It's not because of the Lakers having 4 HOF players that made this season so tough to coach, it's the injuries, conflicts and things like Kobe's trial. Having 8 HOF players and winning 8 championships... That's crazy that they won that many consecutively but I can't be surprised. 8 HOF players together probably should win that many, especially back in the day where there weren't as many dominant players and the league was much smaller.
First of all no one has been anywhere long enuff to devolop talent since the mid 80's. Because of free agency & the salary cap you can't draft or trade for guys who you hope will be better in the future. You can't do that anymore, if you don't win right away your gone and you can afford to re-sign guys anymore. As soon as someone shows a bit of talent they get a huge contract from some team looking to come up. It's a different era of Bball, so you can throw that arguement out. Second of all Shaq, Kobe, MJ & the rest didn't do a thing until Phil showed up. I know everyone has said it, but it's true. Phil got these guys to play team ball which no one else could do. Before Phil you couldn't get MJ to trust his teammates in big games. Same thing with Kobe & Shaq. On top of that none of us have ever seen red coach or bball from his day just highlites of bunch of short white dudes (no offense) running around with no handles shooting flat footed js. people always remember things as be being better than they where. I'll take PJax anyday.
Where'd you get the idea that Phil didn't develop talent? Both Kobe and Scottie were very young players when he arrived on the respective teams; they would not have taken the successful paths they did had it not been for him. And shit, Red Auerbach didn't have to coach Dennis Rodman at the peak of his androgyny. Furthermore, the fact that Auerbach's associated with the CoY trophy means he's the best coach of all time? Hell, I sure didn't know Jerry West was the best player of all time. Did you? I stopped reading when you said the US is fascist because it banned smoking in sports events.
I got a question how does Red lighting up a cigar during a game make him a good coach? imo it just makes him a poor sport and a jerk.
it wasnt just that of course. Red literally wrote the book on coaching basketbal which I gaurentee you Phil has read moer than once and taken a LOT from. The cigar is just an example of the head games red would play with his opponents. Phil is all about mind games and psychology but has never done anything as strong of a psyche out as that cigar. think about it: he lit it EVERY SINGLE TIME he was confident the game was over and they NEVER blew A game once the cigar was lit.
stop arguing with him guys...red was a better coach...and he clearly explained why and for once his reasoning actually made sense...back then coaches basically built their own teams so he was not only in charge of getting the pieces to fit, he was in charge of picking the pieces to begin with...didnt know about the cigar thing...that was cool...jackson is by no means a creative coach...tex winter is the father of the triangle offense...jackson is great at making pieces fit together but as was shown this year (i know this thread was started before the lakers got owned in the finals) his inability to adapt to his players when his players could not adapt to him was ultimately what cost the lakers the season...good post funk... SCBrian - Back from the dead
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You might say, "but Funky, you can't just count his achievments... </div> I thought that part was funny.
