I grew up almost idolizing Payton, so watching him play the way that he has in the playoffs has been pretty painful to me. I knew going into the season that he would regret going to L.A. (even if they won the title) but I didn't expect for him to be a liability on the court. He can't score, he can't defend, and he has been turning the ball over. His game his entire career has been based on supreme confidence and it is crazy to see how bad of a player he is since he has lost that edge. Had he not gone to the Lakers I think that he could have played at an All-Star level for a couple of more years. As it stands right now I don't think that he will ever regain his confidence (and I use to think that he was the biggest competitor that the NBA has had--post Jordan) and that the end of his career is approaching. If he opts out of his contract right now I'm not sure that he can even make more money that he is making right now w/ the Lakers (mid level exception ~ 5 million). Everyone says that he has lost a step. I don't think there is anything wrong w/ his conditioning. I do, however, know that there is a serious problem w/ his confidence. Do you think that he will not be remembered (as) favorably b/c of what has happened to him this season?
No doubt. It hurts to see him doing so badly. I don't think many people will remember him as fondly as many Seattle fans do, and even in his prime he was viewed as somewhat of a troublemaker. I don't know why he's been playing so badly during the playoffs this year, but his career has definitely lost some of its luster. I once saw him as a fierce competitor who would do whatever it takes to win, but it looks like he's unwilling to fit his game into the Laker system or expend most of his energy on defense. As much as I hate to say it, I'm starting to question if Payton is really the team player I always thought he was.
It is very rare to find a Seattle fan who does not have a certain respect for Gary Payton. He is my favorite basketball player of all time period, and i'm shocked by the way he has been playing. I think that for people outside of the Sonics fanbase, his legitimacy as a mature leader on the court may be tarnished. In my mind however, there is no disputing what Gary Payton did for the Sonics and the Seattle community in his tenure. It's a shame he has gone so downhill after an amazing career, but I think the glove could be resilient in a different situation next year.
The only thing, that is wrong is the triangle offense ( he is not comfortable with it ) abd I think if he was with another team, he would have been awsome> trust me on that one!
well GP has always been a hothead and known for stating his opinion no matter what it is. That along with his ego discolored his rep with alot of non-Sonics fans. But this season GP trying to get acclimated into a new offense plus the fact that he's lost a step because age has made it seem his game has deteriorated. I think his diminished role in the team,compared to the role he expected to play,has really hurt his ego. I mean come on,GP has always been a main man in whatever team he's been on,and this season (even though we didn't expect him to play as big a role as before)he along as the rest of us thought his role would be bigger than it is. Granted his inability to adapt to the triangle and all his other problems play big into it. My personal opinion (as someone stated before) is that the triangle isn't conduitive to his game and I think it's effected his confindence alot. He can't do what he did even last year,and whatever the reason..age or the system.. I think it's dented his confidence in his game. I don't think the true basketball fan will doubt GP's place in NBA history during his era tho'.
Gary's reputation has been tarnished, no doubt at all. Mainly with fans outside of Seattle, who don't have the same sort of memories we have as Sonic fans. 'Nique's reputation was tarnished in his last couple of years, so was Ewing's and so was Olajuwon's. I think Gary's going to have to wait a couple of years after he retires before people truly remember him for the player he was. I think, as has been said, Gary's game was based on prime and the confidence he could outduel any given opponent on any given night. I think he fooled himself into thinking he could accept a lesser role in Los Angeles this season, when to be perfectly honest I think his ego and pride have prevented this. Sometimes I still think he was shocked that we actually had the guts to trade him and not take his BS, maybe he hasn't gotten over that at times. I will always have a lot of admiration for GP, after what he did for our franchise. Let's face it, while Nate is Mr Sonic, GP is the greatest player we've ever had. He was the main reason we went to the finals, he is the main reason we stayed compeitive in the post-Karl days and he made every kid growing up in Seattle want to emulate him. However, I did lose some respect for him after the way he handled himself up to, during and in the time after he was traded. To see him attack management the way he has done, and talk about how he would have re-signed with the Sonics now etc etc, really annoys me. The way he acted was like he basically dared us to trade him, and couldn't handle it when we went ahead and did it. So in short, I love the bloke to death, but I have lost a lot of respect for him since the trade too. He's a future HOFer, people will remember him for the player he was once he retires. Right now he's only hurting his reputation.
Well the death of Gary Payton on the Lakers came from day one imo. During the Lakers press conference, GP said that him & Karl Malone were there to change up the offensive system a little bit. He said the Lakers were going to run alot more. He even made a joke to one of the reporters saying tell the big fella get ready to run. He talked about how him & Karl would be able to run the Point Guard pick & roll (a play that was never inthe Lakers offense before) So he clearly had high expectations of what his role would be on this team. I cant really blame GP all the way for having such high expectations. I mean we dont really know what Mitch Kupcheck(and the other Laker front office people) told GP when he was deciding to come to LA. And it seem like last year the Lakers were screaming for an upgrade at the point guard. I mean it was clear in the Spurs series that the Lakers needed more playmaking from the PG spot.So you would think that once they made that upgrade, they would actually try to involve the point guard into the offense other than just being a spot up shooter out of the triangle. And I think Gary Payton was probably think the same thing when he signed. So thats probably why he looked past the fact that every point guard that played in the triangle either was a spot up shooter or became a spot up shooter while playing in the triangle.
I have been looking through the forum archives, but I can't find an article from the Seattle Times, written just prior to our first meeting with the Lakers at Key (when Ray went off for 35 and hit the game winner). Does anyone remember this article? It was basically an interview with Gary, and all he did was seriously bag the management and talk about how badly he was treated, dismissing any notion that he played a part in himself getting traded.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">I have been looking through the forum archives, but I can't find an article from the Seattle Times, written just prior to our first meeting with the Lakers at Key (when Ray went off for 35 and hit the game winner). Does anyone remember this article? It was basically an interview with Gary, and all he did was seriously bag the management and talk about how badly he was treated, dismissing any notion that he played a part in himself getting traded.</div> The article was written by Steve Kelley on December 30, 2003, "Love-hate Relationship: Payton's return filled w/ mixed emotion." The web address is http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/...ery=Gary+Payton, but I think you have to be a member of the Seattle Times to access it from the archive section.
I agree with Hanecy, and that's exactly how I feel also. When Gary came to the Lakers we were supposed to throw out some of the triangle and run more pick-and-rolld and fast breaks. In the beginning of the season (post-Malone injury) we did this, and I think we played our basketball then. We were killing teams on the offensive end, and carried that energy onto the defensive end as well. Kobe, Karl and Gary were running up and down the court getting lay-up after lay-up and the Lakers were cruising. Shaq had a rough start in the season (scoring wise) because as Gary suggested, the Lakers were running and he was always behind them. However, this all changed when Karl got hurt. The injuries started to happen and Phil completely stopped going out of the triangle. Gary's assists per game were already lower than predicted before the season, but after they stopped running even those numbers started to fall. This was the beginning of the problem for Gary. Phil had said in the beginning of the season that they won't run as much triangle for them, but he just stopped doing that. Had Karl not gotten injured, I don't think we would have seen the current Laker offense, as well as Gary's struggles. In all, I agree that Gary was mislead and Phil's stubborness of going out of the triangle killed the end of Gary's great career. Had Jackson continued to let the team run, I think Gary's career would still would have had a couple of good years left in it, but I see this as the downfall of Gary Payton as we know him.
