I can respect the fact that there was alot of fouls called on the Lakers, and that can be frusterating, but that means that you change your game and force a change to your benefit. Did you hear that one of the strengths that the Pistons have is having Lindsey Hunter (ex-Laker) in the huddle because he knows the mentality of the Laker players. They brought this up on ESPN.
Uh oh, Pistons have shot eight freethrows already in game four, while the Lakers have only shot two (and made none). The Refs are out to get LA tonight too, when will it end?
After watching game four today, Im not sure why anyone would be a Pistons fan. Rasheed Wallace has cussed more times on tv than an episode of NYPD Blue. After watching the dismal officiating combined with the complaining by every Piston from Larry Brown to Chauncey Billups, I've decided that the East cannot make a championship team. The only scary part is that the NBA seems to be conspiring to insure that it happens. Everyone wants to see the Laker's lose, but I'm an NBA fan, I would rather see a team win. After Ben Wallace's bear hug on Luke Walton was just given a foul, after Rasheed's flagrant hack of Medvedenko then instigation and butt slap they were both given techs. Both Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant were given techs for complaining about calls, but Rasheed went on multiple tirades without a whistle whatsoever. It doesn't take a genius to see whats happening in the series, even the commentators are already denying the conspiracy.
ubermensch... did you watch the same game as I did? What are you talking about? Every Pistons complained? Did you hear the commentators when they said that every single Lakers except Shaq, whined and complained to the officials?
Can you guys just stop blaming the refs if the Lakers had heart and knew how to rebound then they would win. Malone is worth less to the team. And no one can step up on that laker team. Except Shaq and Kobe. Magic was right to say that the lakers aren't playing like they should and if magic felt that the refs were treating the Lakers unfair then he would have said something rather then bad mouthing the laker team, especially payton and malone. This series is a great series Business men (the Lakers) Versus Blue Collar works (the pistons). Like I said when they started this series the needed to play with heart cause the Piston are hungry wolves that have never tasted a championship (I dont think anybody on that team has a ring) and the Lakers are showing now heart and letting the Refs get to them. If they felt the Pistons were playing dirty they should come hard and show that they can't play dirt then Malone would feel right at home with his elbows and stuff.
If there was a conspiracy don't you think that other players would be saying it like Charles Barkley the man that doesnt care what he says. Or even The best damn sports show dont you think they would say something cause they dont care what they say and even Magic Johnson. I Laker himself didnt even say or even hint that there was something going on with the officiating. And if there was a conspiracy wouldn't the Timberwolves or the Spurs be in the championship not the Lakers if the powers that be didnt want the lakers to win. Face it refs are part of the game and there will be things that people dont agree about but it just looks like the Pistons are playing harder and smarter then the lakers being that their bench only goes 9 deep. I am no pistons fan being that my team lost to them in seven the nets but they play hard and they dont quit. That and Larry Brown knows how to squeeze the most out of a player just look at his record - the clippers, indiana, the 76ers he did alot with a little and now he has legitimate team wit no supers stars and a bunch of role players and he makes the most of every individuals talent.
You stated the CLIPPERS as being a positive note in Larry Brown's career? First of all, read the post. Im not complaining about foul calls, or saying that the lakers didnt play as well as they should. I stated specific events where the officials obviously did not make the right call. Argue with that, not that the pistons should have won the game outright. We'll never know if they could have beat the lakers, they werent given the chance. You Pistons fans should be pissed that youre team isnt being allowed to win a championship, they are just in the right place at the right time. As for the whole Business Men versus Working men argument, I work an honest living at 40+ hours a week. No NBA player could be considered a working man, so nice try. The Pistons defense is the sloppiest, slappiest, half assed defense in the NBA. Prince is holding Kobe's hand more than a room service girl. The Spurs play clean D, this isnt it. If you cant see the lopsided calls in this series, you arent watching. Everyone just wants the Lakers to lose, no matter what harm in could do to the league.
Oh hey, suprajamz, I couldnt hear the commentators over Rasheed's cussing. he even said the double tech with medvedenko was "bulls***t"
ubermensch... I don't think you know basketball at all. You're complaining no-calls against the Pistons, did you see GP's supposed "ally-oop" to Shaq in the first quarter? Now that's some BS. If you can't see it, wow.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">ubermensch... I don't think you know basketball at all. You're complaining no-calls against the Pistons, did you see GP's supposed "ally-oop" to Shaq in the first quarter? Now that's some BS. If you can't see it, wow. </div> I did see it. And Ive seen Ben Wallace slap the rim like Rick James. How about u talk about the specific examples I brought up instead of saying I dont know basketball. The first line of defense for a weak mind is a personal attack. Say something to defend Rasheed instead of trying to bash the glove. he actually played pretty well tonight. If you liked basketball you would actually want to see a good game between two teams instead of a whistle fest that is clearly one-sided. Numbers dont lie and neither does game footage. The Lakers have averaged 27.66 freethrows per game in the playoffs this year and their opponents have averaged 24.33 On the regular season those numbers were 28.68 freethrows for the Lakers and 23.95 for their opponents. In the Finals the Lakers have averaged 19.5 freethrows and the Pistons have averaged 33. In the playoffs the Pistons have averaged 26.82 freethrows while their opponents averaged 23.23 In the regular season the pistons averaged 25.29 freethrows and their opponents averaged 21.10 Thats 6 freethrows more than the Pistons average and 7 less than the Lakers average. A 13 freethrow swing, and thats just in one game! The numbers are out there, you make the call.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ubermensch5150:</div><div class="quote_post">After watching game four today, Im not sure why anyone would be a Pistons fan. Rasheed Wallace has cussed more times on tv than an episode of NYPD Blue. After watching the dismal officiating combined with the complaining by every Piston from Larry Brown to Chauncey Billups, I've decided that the East cannot make a championship team. The only scary part is that the NBA seems to be conspiring to insure that it happens. Everyone wants to see the Laker's lose, but I'm an NBA fan, I would rather see a team win. After Ben Wallace's bear hug on Luke Walton was just given a foul, after Rasheed's flagrant hack of Medvedenko then instigation and butt slap they were both given techs. Both Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant were given techs for complaining about calls, but Rasheed went on multiple tirades without a whistle whatsoever. It doesn't take a genius to see whats happening in the series, even the commentators are already denying the conspiracy.</div> 1. Oh no. No way. Rasheed Wallace cussing? What is this world coming to? Newsflash: Rasheed cusses alot and so does many of the players on the court. You're allowed to express your disagreement to an extent and those cussings away from the ref do not warrant a technical. Look around, cussings and trash talking are everywhere. I don't even want to get into how much trash GP talks even though he's sucking right now. This is the NBA, not MBA (Mormon Basketball Association). 2. The Lakers cried, whined and moaned at least as much as the Pistons if not more. Once again, if you watched the game and actually listened to the commentators instead of trying to hear Rasheed's cussings you would've heard that they said everyone in the Lakers team whined and cried to the ref tonight. 3. You said you would rather see a team win. Are you trying to say the Lakers are more a team than the Pistons are? The Lakers should change their team name to Team ShaKobe and buddies. Again, if you know anything about basketball, the Pistons is what a team should be like. Everybody contributes, everybody plays defense, everybody hustles. They don't try to go to just 1 or 2 man every single game like the Lakers. The whole team win them games, not just one or two players. 4. I'm not sure what bear hugging you're talking about, but that one time Ben got tangled up with Luke was called foul on both players, not just on one. I don't see anything wrong with that. Good call by the ref. 5. I'm not sure on what "flagrant hack" you're talking about either. People hack Shaq intentionally all the time anyways and the refs don't call them because they know all they wanted to do is just prevent the player from scoring without trying to intentionally hurt them. 6. Phil Jackson and Kobe are rookies when it comes to knowing how to complain to refs without getting a technical. Rasheed is a pro about those, that's why he doesn't get T-ed up that often anymore. Sucks for PJ and Kobe. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting ubermensch5150:</div><div class="quote_post">I did see it. And Ive seen Ben Wallace slap the rim like Rick James. How about u talk about the specific examples I brought up instead of saying I dont know basketball. The first line of defense for a weak mind is a personal attack. Say something to defend Rasheed instead of trying to bash the glove. he actually played pretty well tonight. If you liked basketball you would actually want to see a good game between two teams instead of a whistle fest that is clearly one-sided. Numbers dont lie and neither does game footage.</div> Uh, I wasn't bashing the glove, I was just pointing to the fact that a call was not made when it was so obvious that a middle high school kid that plays basketball could've called it for them. I like basketball and to me (and everyone that knows basketball it seems), the Pistons were just clearly the better team this whole series period. In pretty much everything they do, minus Shaq, the Pistons did better. Dirty defense? You would think that if your statement that their defense is dirty, something would've been done about it say... a couple months ago when the Pistons' supposedly dirty defense was suffocating all those teams? You post up here whining about the Pistons defense like you've never played basketball before against a physical defensive player. Ok, that's fine, not every basketball fan actually play basketball themselves. Now I'm not one to play down low in the paint much even though I have, and any true post players can vouch for this: Physical things happen down in the paint. People grab jerseys. People hold. Physical players exist (read up on Karl Malone, Corliss Williamson, etc.) and it's not easy to officiate a physical game down low. I'm sorry to wake you up and open your eyes, but that's what's been going on down in the paint.
All those FT numbers that you've just put up after editting your message only shows me one thing: The Pistons want the title more than the Lakers. The end.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SUPRAJAMES:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Oh no. No way. Rasheed Wallace cussing? What is this world coming to? Newsflash: Rasheed cusses alot and so does many of the players on the court. You're allowed to express your disagreement to an extent and those cussings away from the ref do not warrant a technical. Look around, cussings and trash talking are everywhere. I don't even want to get into how much trash GP talks even though he's sucking right now. This is the NBA, not MBA (Mormon Basketball Association). Exactly, then why did Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant both get techs for the same thing. 2. The Lakers cried, whined and moaned at least as much as the Pistons if not more. Once again, if you watched the game and actually listened to the commentators instead of trying to hear Rasheed's cussings you would've heard that they said everyone in the Lakers team whined and cried to the ref tonight. The commentators hired by ABC are horrible. I watch the game, not the commentary. Rasheed, Chauncey, et al, all moan and groan when they picked up their 22 freethrows, but the Lakers shouldnt complain when they get 41 against them? 3. You said you would rather see a team win. Are you trying to say the Lakers are more a team than the Pistons are? The Lakers should change their team name to Team ShaKobe and buddies. Again, if you know anything about basketball, the Pistons is what a team should be like. Everybody contributes, everybody plays defense, everybody hustles. They don't try to go to just 1 or 2 man every single game like the Lakers. The whole team win them games, not just one or two players. No I was saying that I would rather see one team win then the refs call the game in favor of one team or another. A win. Jeez you just go off on tangents man. 4. I'm not sure what bear hugging you're talking about, but that one time Ben got tangled up with Luke was called foul on both players, not just on one. I don't see anything wrong with that. Good call by the ref. you didnt watch the game did you? That play only Ben got the foul after Ben Wallace hugged Luke and slapped him around a bit. 5. I'm not sure on what "flagrant hack" you're talking about either. People hack Shaq intentionally all the time anyways and the refs don't call them because they know all they wanted to do is just prevent the player from scoring without trying to intentionally hurt them. That would be the flagrant hack where Rasheed Wallace instigated a fight with Medvedenko and a double tech was given. Did you watch the game? 6. Phil Jackson and Kobe are rookies when it comes to knowing how to complain to refs without getting a technical. Rasheed is a pro about those, that's why he doesn't get T-ed up that often anymore. Sucks for PJ and Kobe. Phil Jackson is a rookie? Rasheed is a pro at not getting technicals? Are you smoking crack? I like basketball and to me (and everyone that knows basketball it seems), the Pistons were just clearly the better team this whole series period. In pretty much everything they do, minus Shaq, the Pistons did better. Dirty defense? You would think that if your statement that their defense is dirty, something would've been done about it say... a couple months ago when the Pistons' supposedly dirty defense was suffocating all those teams? That was when theY averaged 27 freethrows. It was a fair game. You post up here whining about the Pistons defense like you've never played basketball before against a physical defensive player. Ok, that's fine, not every basketball fan actually play basketball themselves. Now I'm not one to play down low in the paint much even though I have, and any true post players can vouch for this: Physical things happen down in the paint. People grab jerseys. People hold. Physical players exist (read up on Karl Malone, Corliss Williamson, etc.) and it's not easy to officiate a physical game down low. I'm sorry to wake you up and open your eyes, but that's what's been going on down in the paint.</div> Excuse me? Are you challenging me to a game? I dont mind a physical game. I mind a loose game at one end and a tight game at the other. Im not complaining about the calls that were made. Im complaining about the lopsided number of calls. As for your last remark about the freethrow numbers, you would have to be blind to think that the calls lately are 'normal' so open your eyes And stop mentioning the whole gp shaq alley-oop youve posted about it three other places. thats one missed call on the lakers versus a sea of missed calls on the pistons. but hey, thats your opinion no matter how dilusional it is. btw, why are you such a laker hater when you go to ucla? james, im not even a laker fan. Im a spurs fan, but i watched the spurs go out the same way the lakers are going out right now. 24-41 was the freethrow attempts between the lakers and the spurs. Thanks to that and the 0.4 bs my team got knocked out. I didnt like it then, i sure as hell dont like it now. Like I said before, I would rather see one of the two teams win a game, then to have the game given away. If you were a pistons fan you wouldnt want to see that either. If you're going to win a championship, you have to WIN the championship. Otherwise when people bring this up in the future itll be demeaned by the foul disparity. As for argument of people mentioning the bad calls in the media, the NBA fines players and coaches for bad mouthing the officials. Would you say something in a press conference if it was going to cost you 30k? Jack Nicholson knows basketball and he's always on the refs, maybe he's got something.
Now I watched the game and some of the refs calls were just plain out nonsense. But I didn't see how it was lopsided in the Pistons favor. The reason the Pistons get more freethrows (Anyone can tell you this) is because they're not afraid to take it to the rack every now and then, even the commentators said this. When the Lakers start wanting to win and actually play like the Lakers everyone thinks they're supposed to play like then that's when they'll get their calls, get their respect, get their championship. The more aggresive team will get the refs attention therfore getting the calls and in this series the Pistons are the more aggresive team. Now if I'm wrong please point it out to me.
We don't want your JV team!!! Shaq, Kobe, AND Phil ain't forgettin the ass-whuppin they recieved by Detroit!!! Ya better stay on the porch if ya can't run with the big DAWGS!!!! WOOF WOOF http://www.soundclick.com/themalttones
This is an argument of opinion. Some people are able to less-bias and see that their team is struggling and needs to change things in their camp. Others want to place blame at or on anyone else so they can still believe their team is golden. The fact of the matter is this, this is the first true test that the Lakers have had since their first ring, and they don't seem hungry (as a team). There are always bad calls in games (or calls that <u>could</u> be called, but YOU wouldn't do it), but as said before, great teams roll with it. The Piston's don't fall for the pumpfake-And1 play and know that they have a guy who want's block the shot at the rim. ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE IS THE INJURY OF MALONE. The Pistons don't even defend him, living with his occaisonal shot selection. The Lakers should re-sign both of them (Payton and Malone), have Payton come off the bench and play his game. Jackson probably won't be there, but the players know the triangle and should be able to stick with it after he's gone. What about Kobe though? The sad thing is this is similar (in my mind) to the last dance in Chicago, except there won't be a championship to go with it.
The Lakers aren't ebven making shots that they need to and when I say Laker I mean the whole team not just shaq and Kobe. shots and rebounds Shaq has no help with the rebounds on the offense and defensive ends. But for them playing as a team its just not happening. And maybe the calls arent letting them get into the way they want to run their offense. But detriot would give them open shots like malone and payton and the rest of the team but they wouldnt make them. Shaq and Kobe are the only ones on the team that is handling the pressure of being eliminated really well doing what they have to but the shot selection of kobe as of late is not great shot selections
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NJNetz:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers aren't ebven making shots that they need to and when I say Laker I mean the whole team not just shaq and Kobe. shots and rebounds Shaq has no help with the rebounds on the offense and defensive ends. But for them playing as a team its just not happening. And maybe the calls arent letting them get into the way they want to run their offense. But detriot would give them open shots like malone and payton and the rest of the team but they wouldnt make them. Shaq and Kobe are the only ones on the team that is handling the pressure of being eliminated really well doing what they have to but the shot selection of kobe as of late is not great shot selections</div> I think that's all of Detriot's defensive work. But Kobe's jumper is so good that he can make some really difficult shots that Detriot is forcing him to make. Like that one in the corner of the 3 point line with the shot clock winding down.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NJNetz:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers aren't ebven making shots that they need to and when I say Laker I mean the whole team not just shaq and Kobe. shots and rebounds Shaq has no help with the rebounds on the offense and defensive ends.....</div> This series reminds me of past Timberwolves series when KG had to do everything. Sometimes he got help from one person.....but 5 on 2 is a difficult situation.
