<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Spree:</div><div class="quote_post">If you would like to quote the bible in that fashion then i am a sinner. We are all sinners. Do we all believe in pre-maridal sex?.. thought so..</div> Of course we'll all sinners. But what I was tryna say was when people try to say that being gay ain't sinful all you gotta do is look in the Bible and it'll tell you it is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't believe thier lifestyle is right, however its modern day society, not sinning.</div> It's not sinning? Look in Leviticus 18:22.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rudeezy:</div><div class="quote_post">This was my main reason for starting this thread. I know we have mature enough members to discuss this in a mature manner. So the big question is, do you think homosexuals would be accepted in the NBA? By the fans?</div> So far,it's been a very good healthy discussion,and i like everyone's diffrent point's of view. I Personaly don't think the NBA,Or any Major Sports is ready to accept Gay players,just like the country isn't ready to accept Gay Marriage now..oh my that's another can of worms there ..but that's just my opinion there
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sactown_dyme:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course we'll all sinners. But what I was tryna say was when people try to say that being gay ain't sinful all you gotta do is look in the Bible and it'll tell you it is. It's not sinning? Look in Leviticus 18:22.</div> "You shall not lie with men as with women. It is abomination." It is a sin but we're all sinners. We sin in one way or the other. It's their choice if they want to be gay or not but if they want to be safe from the pointing fingers of the society, it would be best if they remain in the closet.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Remember everyone, homosexuality is a choice not something that is predetermined. I'm sure that there are many players that have experimented w/ the same sex. In Europe homosexuality is often accepted, and given the influx of Europeans to the NBA it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of them were homosexual. </div> im pretty amazed at some of the ignorance displayed in this thread, but this one takes the cake. shiek, you've got it twisted backwards man...one does not CHOOSE to be gay, they simply ARE gay. you honestly think that every homosexual, COULD be straight, they just prefer to be gay? you really have a lot to learn about genetics if you think that the only thing pre-determined at birth is race...what about hair and eye color? what about schizophrenia? you think someone "chooses" to have delusions? sexual preference isnt a choice, its who you are.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sactown_dyme:</div><div class="quote_post"> It's not sinning? Look in Leviticus 18:22.</div> Who said all here at justbball were christian and therefore follow the bible? Your making the assumption that all homosexuals (in this case homosexuals who play basketball) are followers of Jesus Christ and believe in a book assembled so many years ago that even the followers of christianity consider its readings "outdated". Not to disrespect Christians in any way (i am one), i just believe that if we are going to abide by the bible in contemporary society, we must judge those killers and drug dealers before worrying about gay people playin ball. Im a Maronite Christian (Christian from lebanon), and im not a homosexual. I actually stated before that i "don't agree" with gay lifestyle, however all im doing is objecting to you using the bible as a reference to disliking gays.. If you don't like gay people playing ball say it, but don't use the bible as a reason to call it "sinning". If that is the case (remember its 2004), what is your theory on Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist homosexuals?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">im pretty amazed at some of the ignorance displayed in this thread, but this one takes the cake. shiek, you've got it twisted backwards man...one does not CHOOSE to be gay, they simply ARE gay. you honestly think that every homosexual, COULD be straight, they just prefer to be gay? you really have a lot to learn about genetics if you think that the only thing pre-determined at birth is race...what about hair and eye color? what about schizophrenia? you think someone "chooses" to have delusions? sexual preference isnt a choice, its who you are.</div> You are entitled to your opinion. My argument is that people figure out what they want for themselves through their life experience. Now are people born predestined to acquire certain illnesses, absolutely. That would fall under my heredity argument, as would anything else related to genetics. However, when I was in the womb I do not think that I was making decisions on my sexual preference. If a person who was gay really wanted to be straight he could give up his same sex relationships and make an attempt to be w/ the opposite sex. If he/she decides that the opposite sex doesn't do it for them and they would rather be w/ their same sex then they made the decision to become gay. If they decided that they would rather stay w/ the opposite sex then they made the decision to become straight. If they decided that they would rather be gay but couldn't deal w/ the fallout, then they would decide to obstain from sexual activity. I made the decision to be w/ women. If I wanted to, I could make the same decision to be w/ men, also. I just don't want to make that decision. Attraction is very subjective. I wasn't born attracted to Stacey Dash. I wasn't born attracted to intelligent self sufficient women. These are the people who I am attracted to but I had to live my life in order to figure out what type of women I would like to pursue. Now I do believe that there are people who are attracted to people that they would rather not be attracted to, but I think those are more the results of infatuations then them having been predestined to be attracted to whatever characteristics that person would have. Decisions that you make will make you who you are. If you choose to break the law, then you will be a convict. If you choose to be a good husband/father, then you will be a good family man. If you choose to participate in same sex intercouse, then you will be gay. I can see and understand why people do not share my same views on this topic but I am a firm believer in people become who they are through their experiences. Others may disagree but that is my stance. I don't think every homosexual could be straight and prefers to be gay. I do think that homosexuals make the decision to be w/ the people that they want to be w/.
I think, in the end and as with a lot of things, it comes down to your definition of 'choice'. I'm willing to bet the people disagreeing with Shiek regard a choice as something in the light that you don't have to go with it, but you do. Like choosing a new car, or choosing what tie to wear to a business meeting. It's a conscious choice. IMO being Gay is still a choice, but it's a subconscious choice. It is a life choice - something you have little control over, but you're still making that choice, even if you don't realise it. Your body and mind makes that choice, and you have to go with it. Whether you choose to accept and/or acknowledge it is a conscious choice. That's how I see things, anyway.
If that is the case (remember its 2004), what is your theory on Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist homosexuals? Judaism and Islam both follow the bible so they would also view homosexuality as a "sin". I have no idea what the Buddhist's view on homosexuality is.
I'm with dj_premuim_plus. I don't think it's a choice, that's how they are born. If they had a choice, they wouldn't want to be gay knowing that they would go through all this hassle and ridicule. Before becoming attracted to females being a little kid, me and others could tell who was gonna be gay. They were the ones that hung out with the girls and played patti cake. Except my friend, like I said before I just thought he was a wuss. I don't mean it as a joke about patti cake, but they are gay now and it isn't by choice. They were already like that at a young age.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 30 standing ver:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm with dj_premuim_plus. I don't think it's a choice, that's how they are born. If they had a choice, they wouldn't want to be gay knowing that they would go through all this hassle and ridicule. Before becoming attracted to females being a little kid, me and others could tell who was gonna be gay. They were the ones that hung out with the girls and played patti cake. Except my friend, like I said before I just thought he was a wuss.</div> See? That's a conscious choice, choosing not to be gay because you would have to go through all the hassle and ridicule. My point is it's a subconscious choice; your body and mind make the choice for you, regardless of the consequences. You in turn consciously choose how to respond to this.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">If that is the case (remember its 2004), what is your theory on Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist homosexuals? Judaism and Islam both follow the bible so they would also view homosexuality as a "sin". I have no idea what the Buddhist's view on homosexuality is.</div> Well if we're bringing different religions and ways of life into it, then it's impossible to make a general view on the subject, as there are going to be different rules and guidelines. I was talking from the point of view of a regular American or Australian male, in which you can either be straight, gay, bi-sexual, transsexual etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post"> If a person who was gay really wanted to be straight he could give up his same sex relationships and make an attempt to be w/ the opposite sex. If he/she decides that the opposite sex doesn't do it for them and they would rather be w/ their same sex then they made the decision to become gay. If they decided that they would rather stay w/ the opposite sex then they made the decision to become straight. If they decided that they would rather be gay but couldn't deal w/ the fallout, then they would decide to obstain from sexual activity. I made the decision to be w/ women. If I wanted to, I could make the same decision to be w/ men, also. I just don't want to make that decision.</div> exactly! you just helped to prove my point. you dont "decide" what "does it for you" its just is. do you make a concious descision as to being attracted to females? or are is it just that way? its part of who you are, now what you decide. you COULD choose to be gay...but you dont...why? because its not who you are. your not gay. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Attraction is very subjective. I wasn't born attracted to Stacey Dash. I wasn't born attracted to intelligent self sufficient women. These are the people who I am attracted to but I had to live my life in order to figure out what type of women I would like to pursue. Now I do believe that there are people who are attracted to people that they would rather not be attracted to, but I think those are more the results of infatuations then them having been predestined to be attracted to whatever characteristics that person would have.</div> again...the type of person, ie: characteristics, both physical and mental have to do with what you've grown to be attracted to...being a heterosexual is something that just "is". homosexuals all say "i knew when i was a little kid". are they just making that up? when i was 7 i used to run around kissing girls. a kid in my class used to try and kiss boys...in high school he was gay. this is the case with all homosexuals, are you saying when they are too young to even understand sexual preference, that they are making choices to be gay? sure SOME people make the choice...however if you talk to 90% of homosexuals, they'll tell you "i could tell i was different when i was a little kid". thats usually the case <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Decisions that you make will make you who you are. If you choose to break the law, then you will be a convict. If you choose to be a good husband/father, then you will be a good family man. If you choose to participate in same sex intercouse, then you will be gay. I can see and understand why people do not share my same views on this topic but I am a firm believer in people become who they are through their experiences. Others may disagree but that is my stance. I don't think every homosexual could be straight and prefers to be gay. I do think that homosexuals make the decision to be w/ the people that they want to be w/.</div> who you are, is different then what you are. genetic make up, predetermines things like ADD, why cant it pre-determine gayness? neither one has been proven scientifically...so i guess its just a difference of opinion. having known someone since i was in gr.1 and seeing him do things like wear a dress to school in gr.3, and grow up to being a homosexual, i honestly think its part of who you are, not what you choose to be
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post"> having known someone since i was in gr.1 and seeing him do things like wear a dress to school in gr.3, and grow up to being a homosexual, i honestly think its part of who you are, not what you choose to be</div> The argument is whether or not someone is born gay. We do not know what some of these kids are exposed to at an early age. Something that they may have seen, heard, or experienced could have triggered their attraction to their same sex. (just like heterosexuals have seen, heard, or experienced things that have triggered their attraction to the opposite sex) Like you said, there is no scientific evidence to support either claim. I don't know what age I realized that I was attracted to females. If you ask most parents of homosexuals I doubt that they would have been able to predetermine that their child would be gay at birth.
Both of you are just speaking from your opinions, because in reality there is isn't any proof that supports either of your claims. So let that not get into this debate and focus on the main question on this BASKETBALL forum. Do you believe that "5% of NBA players are gay?" Do you think they would survive if they "came out of the closet?" Why or why not
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">Both of you are just speaking from your opinions, because in reality there is isn't any proof that supports either of your claims. So let that not get into this debate and focus on the main question on this BASKETBALL forum. </div> obviously...i said that exact thing already. its pretty normal for discussions on msg boards to get a little off topic..expecially by page 5. but your right...back to... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Do you believe that "5% of NBA players are gay?" Do you think they would survive if they "came out of the closet?" Why or why not</div> statistically, its probably a higher number. i find it odd that t-mac would come out and say that anyways...often when someone points the "gay finger" their covering up for their own latent homosexuality. maybe t-mac bats for the pink team himself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Spree:</div><div class="quote_post">Who said all here at justbball were christian and therefore follow the bible? Your making the assumption that all homosexuals (in this case homosexuals who play basketball) are followers of Jesus Christ and believe in a book assembled so many years ago that even the followers of christianity consider its readings "outdated".</div> This argument wasn't about who's Christian and who ain't Christian man. It was about if homosexuality is a sin or not. Evidently it is if you read the verse I brought up. Just because they don't believe it's a sin or don't know it's a sin doesn't make it not a sin. So what you're saying about gays being Christians or every JBB member being Christian or not is entirely irrelevant. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not to disrespect Christians in any way (i am one), i just believe that if we are going to abide by the bible in contemporary society, we must judge those killers and drug dealers before worrying about gay people playin ball.</div> Aren't killers punished? Don't they go to jail? We're not worrying about gay people playing ball; this thread was about what do we think would happen if somebody decided to come out of the closet. And no offense, but I highly doubt you're a Christian if you believe that homosexuality isn't a sin. Not to challenge your Christianity or anything like that, but I'm just saying tho. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Im a Maronite Christian (Christian from lebanon), and im not a homosexual. I actually stated before that i "don't agree" with gay lifestyle, however all im doing is objecting to you using the bible as a reference to disliking gays.. If you don't like gay people playing ball say it, but don't use the bible as a reason to call it "sinning".</div> Wow. Because I said that homosexuality is a sin then I don't like gay people. I don't agree with their lifestyle because it's sinful, not because I'm homophobic. Don't be making assumptions or getting words twisted. The only reason why I brought up Leviticus 18:22 was to show you that homosexuality is in fact a sin. So for you to twist it into me trying to say I don't like gays playing basketball is bull.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">With all due respect, Since When?</div>Since when is it not a choice? It works both ways.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">im pretty amazed at some of the ignorance displayed in this thread, but this one takes the cake. shiek, you've got it twisted backwards man...one does not CHOOSE to be gay, they simply ARE gay. </div>Instead of insulting members, why don't you back up what you are saying with facts. How do you know people do not choose to be gay? What proof do you have that people are born gay? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">you honestly think that every homosexual, COULD be straight, they just prefer to be gay? </div>Yes. What are you basing this on? Your opinion? I have debated this issue on another discussion board with gays and they would tell you that some do choose and some do not. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">sexual preference isnt a choice, its who you are.</div>Again, say who?
