On PTI yesterday, Michael Wilbon said the Raptors do not have a franchise player and Vince Carter is not, can not, and should not be considered their franchise player. Do you agree with Wilbon? I don't.
I don't agree with him too but seems like he says this because Vince isn't the same player he was once. (Highflying dunks...) Franchise players usually score a lot but when did Vince last drop 50 on someone?Franchise players usually make spectacular plays (Vince did them but he set the bar so high during his first seasons that people doesn't want to see dunks by Vince that look like Jalen Rose would've dunked.) That's why I think he said that.
I saw that too... I disagree, right now hes still a franchise player because hes the only one on this team that makes us win games. You don't average close to 22 5 and 5 without being a franchise player. He fills seats, wins games, and when healthy (which he was this past season) definitely does something positive for the organization. Hes not on the level of Kobe or TMac (obviously), but that doesn't mean hes not a franchise player.
He has to be. He's improved so much and matured ever since his injuries. What particularly impresses me is the fact that his assists have increase. A man capable of so much on offense being so unselfish is great. He has also improved his passing and decreased his turnovers. Overall this is my favorite of seeing him. He's become a real "team" and "franchise" player. Literally does it all and does it well. What adds to my view of him as this, is that he plays smart ball, truly smart basketball. He doesn't play too wildly yet still puts on a show putting up great numbers, plus beyond the numbers there's his effort. Although at times he seems to lack leadership, the will to win and the effort, the fact that his game has improved shows he has the initiative and intution to do so and be capable of all those things and show he shines them sometimes.
I disagree, Vince is a franchise player right now, and will continue to be one. A 20 5 5 season and lots think that it is bad. IMO those are some pretty good numbers, and he was only out 9 games all season. As Magic Johnson said, at times I think he lacks leadership but his heart IMO is always in the game. He is very unselfish. He only needs a few players who can knock down shots consistently and draw coverage to lessen the load on him and the team and Vince will be successful.
I disagree big time, vince is definately a franchise player. Just because he(vince) isnt the player he used to be, doesnt mean he's not a franchise player. I bet wilbon wouldnt have said that 5 or 6 years ago when vince dominated.
begrudgingly i agree with wilbon, i don't want to admit this because essentially i'm admitting the raptors are a failed franchise. anyone that has ever watched him play against a physical, hardnosed defenders like ron artest has seen him be physically and mentally emasculated, thats the truth. many people blame vince solely for the raptor failures, rightly or wrongly.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">begrudgingly i agree with wilbon, i don't want to admit this because essentially i'm admitting the raptors are a failed franchise. anyone that has ever watched him play against a physical, hardnosed defenders like ron artest has seen him be physically and mentally emasculated, thats the truth. many people blame vince solely for the raptor failures, rightly or wrongly.</div> There are only a few guys like Artest in the league, and it seems that most people struggle against those defenders anyway. Picture this organization without Vince Carter, it would be much different and I think its safe to say that we would have taken the same path that Vancouver did. Just because hes not one of the best players in the league, doesn't mean hes not a franchise player. You have to look at all aspects. Not only has he won many games for us, he also fills the seats and is a big reason why basketball is popular in Canada. This past season I have been very critical of Vince, but I have to disagree with you and Wilbon right now.
Who the heck is he? His words don't mean jack. He's not some known guy who everyone listens to. He talks like Vince is some average role player on our team. Nobody gives him credit that he deserves. He's our franchise player, and our team would be rebuilding. Why do people, especially the ones who despise Vince, use the term "rebuilding" when they refer to Vince's departure? It's because they know he's our franchise player. You never use that term if some average role player leaves our team. I can't wait untill Vince proves the critics wrong next season. He'll shut up all the dunce people like this dude.
I think Vince is great but too many times, he's disappeared from games when his shot isn't falling. A lot of times he plays well in the first quarter and then he disappears until the fourth quarter, many times when it's too late. I've noticed when his shot isn't falling he tends to just keep taking shots from the perimeter and the rest of the team follows his lead, that's when we need him to take it to the basket to set an example. And sometimes when we need him to take the shot (especially in the 4th quarter), he passes it to a less capable teammate. He is a franchise player but he needs to work on a few things.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chungster:</div><div class="quote_post">Who the heck is he? His words don't mean jack. He's not some known guy who everyone listens to. He talks like Vince is some average role player on our team. Nobody gives him credit that he deserves. He's our franchise player, and our team would be rebuilding. Why do people, especially the ones who despise Vince, use the term "rebuilding" when they refer to Vince's departure? It's because they know he's our franchise player. You never use that term if some average role player leaves our team. I can't wait untill Vince proves the critics wrong next season. He'll shut up all the dunce people like this dude.</div> I hope your not serious, you actually haven't heard of Mike Wilbon?
This is not the first Mark Wilbon, Chad Ford or any somewhat famous writer critised him. Fact is, Vince is one, and from what he was talking about, I could see that he didn't watch as many Raptor games as a respected analyst should've to make such a statement. I've always came to the realization that all the people who complement and admire Vince are former players and coaches who work as either analysts or writers or even broadcasters. Anyways, it ain't something new.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thefranchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">I hope your not serious, you actually haven't heard of Mike Wilbon?</div> It's like his name is as recognized and known as Michael Jordan's? :thumbsdow
if ray allen, or paul pierce can be considered franchise players, i dont see why vince shouldnt be just another case of vince getting overly-critisized because of a couple of injury riddled seasons. this year he didnt miss much time, and put up great numbers, but still takes the heat from the media. its the medias fault for hyping him up so much in the first place, now he takes mad heat from the same media because he isnt what they said he was. vince never compared himself to jordan, the bloody media did...so of course they are gonna come down on him for not being the next jordan, he never was the next jordan.
I think Vince is one of those players who can put up big numbers, but never win... sort of like Shariff Abdur Rahim.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chinkboi:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Vince is one of those players who can put up big numbers, but never win... sort of like Shariff Abdur Rahim.</div> i think its a little early in both their careers to make that kind of assumption. vince isnt even 30 yet
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chinkboi:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Vince is one of those players who can put up big numbers, but never win... sort of like Shariff Abdur Rahim.</div> LMAO how long have you been watching basketball? Seems like not very long with a stupid comment like that. Didn't Vince carry the Raps to the playoffs in his second season? Ummm didn't Vince carry the Raps to the 2nd round and 1 shot away from the East Finals? Yeah Vince sure is one of those players who can put up "big numbers, but never win... sort of like Shariff Abdur Rahim" LMAO
I totally disagree with Wilbon. Like most of you said, Vince led his team to the playoffs in his sophomore year and almost put them in the Eastern Confrence Finals. He used to put up really big numbers and be one of the best players in the league. Even though he's losing it, he still is a franchice player who can make them win games with his clutch shooting and the people come to the games because of him - not the Raptors and his insane dunks. He is a franchise player, and the best they ever had.
Vince is a franchise player IMO. However, he is not the perfect franchise player. Franchise players are supposed to DEMAND the ball, and step up for the team each and every team. Franchise players are often the most consistent performers on the team, and Vince is not in that mold, yet. He needs to call for the ball and not go whole quarters without attempting a shot. Guys like him are too hard to defend. Solely for that reason, Vince should get to the free throw line at least 8 times a game. He has not done that. If Vince can improve on those areas of his game, there's no doubt he'd return to the top tier of players in the league, where he was a few seasons ago.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Accord:</div><div class="quote_post">On PTI yesterday, Michael Wilbon said the Raptors do not have a franchise player and Vince Carter is not, can not, and should not be considered their franchise player. Do you agree with Wilbon? I don't.</div> I totally disagree vince is shown that without him the raptors are the worst team in the league the years he was hurt if any one remembers the sixers raptors series in the 2001 nba playoffs vince matched AI point per point and vince has also been the leader in all star votes the last couple of years and been on the olympic qualifing teams last summer how can you not consider this guy a franchise player he averages over 20 points leading the team in scoring can play either the 2 or small forward position former slam dunk champ lead toronto to the semi finals 2 years ago no question he is a franchise player
