<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SuperMan:</div><div class="quote_post">True... Also, since T-Mac is so lazy and has no work ethic, why do a bunch of people have T-Mac sigs saying "I'll never quit" or whatever... Quit what? You lazy bastard! You can't quit what you don't start! Ooo, I smell poetic quote right there... This has been an RJ Classic... Brought to you by Coca Cola... (HAHA, advertisements and all!)</div> At least he's not Shaq....
all this criticism on tmac is unfair. yea, he's shown signs of laziness in orlando, but he was one of the best players in the nba playing for the worst team in the nba, nothing to get excited about. is it right that he took this approach? not by any means, but he's young still and probably doesn't know any better. with the right coaching staff and mentor(s), sky is the limit for this guy. you can tell he wants to win bad and JVG can give him that opportunity if he is willing to capitalize on it, and he will eventually come around to seeing that. anyways, back to the trade thing... the 3 way deal might work, but probably not because i don't think thats what the lakers are looking for. they're pretty much set at the PG position, at least for next year, its either gonna be payton or fisher (fisher will probably leave if payton stays). and the 2 way deal w/ orlando and houston probably would not work, indiana already offered them way more than what houston would offer in terms of francis and either mobley or cato. Phoenix has also given them a better offer as well. In order to make it work, houston would probably have to send both of their guards, and a third player (cato, taylor, or jackson, although i really dont wanna see jackson go).
Who are you talking to? What are you talking about? No reason for that post... That was lame... You post padder!! (Someone who posts nonsense just to up their post count... A la you!)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketGuru:</div><div class="quote_post">Houston Get Mcgrady Houston gets a complete scorer to go with Yao?s inside game. I don?t think Mcgrady is a selfish player I think that he would be more than happy to share to ball with Yao. Orlando gets Francis, Cato or Mobley Francis is a 22 point scorer, JVG style of play is what hampered Francis he is just not a PG to distribute the ball to big men, He is AI type of PG, I am sure that he would return to form outside of a JVG style of play. Houston need a passing PG, Orlando does not. Francis has 5 years left on his contract and for a team that is going to rebuild that is a good thing. Also it is very possible Cato would be included in a deal and in the eastern conference he would be a defensively dominate C with excellent rebounding skills Mobley is also a option instead of Cato. Mobley who is allot like Francis, if I was Orlando and I had the choice I would take Cato simple because Mobley?s and Francis?s games are basically the same. They are both slashing scorers, Mobley tried to become a 3pt specialist last season to accommodate the half-court inside out game, but that is simply not his game and he suffered because of it.</div> McGrady isn't a selfish player? Where do you get that from? The trade is Francis, Mobley AND Cato for McGrady and possibly Howard, that gives the Magic a lineup of... PG-Francis, SG-Mobley, SF-Gooden, PF-Okafur, C-Cato... Leaving the Rockets with PG-Free Agent/Rookie?, SG-McGrady, SF-Jackson, PF-Howard, C-Yao, the Magic lineup looks better! What the heck is an AI type PG, AI is a shooting guard... Why does Houston need a passing point guard? Do they need one to distribute the ball to the countless scorers the Rockets have? BTW, last season was Mobley's BEST from the 3 point line...
Oka first Mcgrady is not a selfish player based on the fact, that last year he was only forced to shoot so much because he was the only player that could put the ball in the hole. He has always wanted another great player around him. That is not selfish IMO Francis, Mobley and cato are what orlando asked not what they will necessaraly get. Even if it was all three i would still do it. Mobley is not a 3pt specialist he is a slasher, Mobley was better in 02, than he was last year. AI was a PG for along time. Francis is in that same mold a scoring PG, that should be playing SG. YES houston need a PG that can run a half-court offense. Francis is not that Player and he wont accept a role as a SG. And a Rocket lineup would look C- Yao PF - Taylor (Howard, Mcdyess) SF - Jackson/Nachbar SG - Mcgrady PG - ?? There are good role player availibe to fill some spot's Mcdyess has already said he would like to join the houston roster. And there are a number of PG availibe that would run the half-court alot better than Francis.
He was forced to shoot because all he cared about was winning a scoring championship... The Magic offense was fine, a lot better than the Rocket's offense, the problem was that they didn't play defense, defense that could of came from their leader but didn't so he led them to the bottom of the Least. He scored more, that's about it though... Mobley's game was hurt as was Francis' game, but Mobley adjusted much better than Francis because his outside game doesn't rely as much on slashing as Francis' does. AI was a point guard for one season I believe, as long as it took them to see that they had one of the best scorers in the NBA, of all time at that! Francis isn't even close to Iverson in terms of pure scoring ability... Francis ran that offense fine, the Rockets were simply limited on what they could do on offense because they had very little to work with, it's Yao and Francis, that's about it though everyone else worked off of those 2.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">He was forced to shoot because all he cared about was winning a scoring championship... The Magic offense was fine, a lot better than the Rocket's offense, the problem was that they didn't play defense, defense that could of came from their leader but didn't so he led them to the bottom of the Least. </div> If that's all he cared about, then he wouldn't be demanding a trade. His best place to win scoring championships would be in orlando. Tracy's desire to win is huge. From what the interview's he has been doing, you can tell he is willing to do whatever it takes for him to get somewhere farther than the first round. He has continually stated that he wanted to play w/ another superstar on his team. But that's just from what he's been saying, we all know actions speak louder than words. I agree that the Magic's downfall was because of their defense. Alot of this problem shoulda been addressed by mcgrady to his teammates, but even had that team played defense, they weren't gonna get any where with that roster.
I never said francis is as good a scorer as Iverson, i said he has the same type of game. Yes mobley has a better Outside game than francis, but there are alot of ppl out there that can shoot the 3 better than mobley he only shot 38% from the 3pt stripe. Mobley is a slasher with a 3pt shot, But if he cant be a slasher it would be better to have a pure 3pt shooter playing that spot. Nachbar is the player that should take over mobleys role as the perimeter threat, Because he has that shot and he can cut into the lane. He just need playing time. If we keep mobley he need to come off the bench to take francis place as the slasher when francis is on the bench. Francis ran the offense horrible, he is the freaking PG and he has 1.8 Turnover to assit ratio. That is freaking unacceptible. Francis does not have the court vision or decision making ability to run the offense. If he is not traded he must be moved to the SG spot or the rockets are going nowhere
I said that's all he cared about, who knows about his intentions now, but I still won't put much expectations on a team that has McGrady on it. Like I've mentioned on another thread, he's getting married, sometimes that changes people, if he comes to the Rockets it better. He's talking on his interviews like his time in the league is winding down, like he's 35 years old, he was time to stick around and make that team a contender instead of joining one. That roster wasn't last place bad, it shouldn't have ever lost 19 games in a row, especially not with a guy that is thought up as a top 5 player. Most players that shot the 3 at 39% or above are great 3 point shooters... Ray Allen was just .1% better than Mobley was last season... Nachbar can't shoot the 3 as well as Mobley can, and he can't play defense as well as Mobley, and he can't finish as well as Mobley can... He has a lot of work to do this offseason to get regular minutes... Nobody is getting that many assists on that team, and Francis had a lot of turnovers because he's a playmaker, playmakers always have high turnover numbers, more so when they're the only playmaker on their team. The Rocket offense wasn't going to ever run smoothly because they don't have the talent to run smoothly... Ask Jeff Van Gundy if he has ever thought about moving Francis to the 2 guard spot, he'll tell you that that idea is absolutely out of the question, Francis is a PG. Deal with him at PG or start rooting for another team, because unless he gets trade he's going to be the Rockets PG.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">I said that's all he cared about, who knows about his intentions now, but I still won't put much expectations on a team that has McGrady on it. Like I've mentioned on another thread, he's getting married, sometimes that changes people, if he comes to the Rockets it better. He's talking on his interviews like his time in the league is winding down, like he's 35 years old, he was time to stick around and make that team a contender instead of joining one. That roster wasn't last place bad, it shouldn't have ever lost 19 games in a row, especially not with a guy that is thought up as a top 5 player. Most players that shot the 3 at 39% or above are great 3 point shooters... Ray Allen was just .1% better than Mobley was last season... Nachbar can't shoot the 3 as well as Mobley can, and he can't play defense as well as Mobley, and he can't finish as well as Mobley can... He has a lot of work to do this offseason to get regular minutes... Nobody is getting that many assists on that team, and Francis had a lot of turnovers because he's a playmaker, playmakers always have high turnover numbers, more so when they're the only playmaker on their team. The Rocket offense wasn't going to ever run smoothly because they don't have the talent to run smoothly... Ask Jeff Van Gundy if he has ever thought about moving Francis to the 2 guard spot, he'll tell you that that idea is absolutely out of the question, Francis is a PG. Deal with him at PG or start rooting for another team, because unless he gets trade he's going to be the Rockets PG.</div> Whats wrong w/ him talking like time is winding down on him? That just shows how bad he wants to win. All the greats played every game like it was their last, thats what drives them to try to win every single game. Who cares if he's getting married, Ray Allen is getting married, KG is getting married, big deal. Yea, it may have had an effect on Tiger, but generally speaking, marriage as a factor of how someone performs (especially in the NBA) is pretty ridiculous. Francis is a playmaker for himself. He doesn't get his team involved the way real PG's do. Van Gundy won't move francis to the 2-guard because he doesnt have anyone else on that team that can play the point. If you gave JVG a true PG such as a nash, he wouldnt hesitate to move francis to the 2 spot, because thats where he naturally belongs.
First of all teams don't just swap superstars like that for no reason when they are in there primes...second of all Indiana has already put Artest,Tinsley,Bender, and Al Harrington on the table for t-mac alone also newsflash for these owners...just b.c ur team didnt win the NBA finals doesnt mean u should trade away ur franchise player Artest,Tinsley Bender,Al Harrington or Francis and Cato Thats one hard decision also Phoenix is offering joe johnson,marion,voshkul and the 7th pick in the draft which i would also take over francis and cato
If he really wanted to win he would of won last season in Orlando... Marriage is something that makes some guys look at life differently, maybe after marriage he starts taking more responsibilty, maybe he feels more accountable for the failures going on around him, maybe he stops blaming everyone else for his problems, or he'll stop making excuses. He obviously needs a change in his attitude, maybe marriage gives it to him... Van Gundy won't move him to the 2 because he thinks highly of Francis, he's said so plenty of times, everytime he's asked why doesn't he move Francis to the 2 he says it's out of the question. Nash won't be the player he is on the Rockets that he is on the Mavericks, no more 10 assist games for him with the talent, err the lack of talent the Rockets have. Francis has played PG his entire life, that's where he naturally belongs.
How could he have won last season in Orlando? Did you regularly watch any Orlando games? His team may look somewhat good on paper, but their chemistry on the court was not there. Tyronn Lue is a sorry excuse for a starting PG, Drew Gooden is a black hole, and how far do you expect to go w/ DeClerq as your center? Marriage is marriage, very seldomly does it effect athletes, and it most certainly almost never effects basketball players. Your work ethic is your work ethic, your gonna do it your way no matter what, especially if you have already been paid multi-millions. Marriage ain't gonna have any effect on TMacs game. Maybe van gundy is saying its out of the question because he has no other answer. Van Gundy has never said the reason why is because he is supposed to be a pg, and because thats his natural position. Van Gundy is very careful of his words and doesn't like to stir things up in his locker room. If you think Francis is a better PG than Nash then your envisionment of a point guard is out of whack. Nash is as pure as a PG as they come. Is nash a better athlete than Francis? Not by any means, but his game embodies that of a PG's.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">I said that's all he cared about, who knows about his intentions now, but I still won't put much expectations on a team that has McGrady on it. Like I've mentioned on another thread, he's getting married, sometimes that changes people, if he comes to the Rockets it better. He's talking on his interviews like his time in the league is winding down, like he's 35 years old, he was time to stick around and make that team a contender instead of joining one. That roster wasn't last place bad, it shouldn't have ever lost 19 games in a row, especially not with a guy that is thought up as a top 5 player. Most players that shot the 3 at 39% or above are great 3 point shooters... Ray Allen was just .1% better than Mobley was last season... Nachbar can't shoot the 3 as well as Mobley can, and he can't play defense as well as Mobley, and he can't finish as well as Mobley can... He has a lot of work to do this offseason to get regular minutes... Nobody is getting that many assists on that team, and Francis had a lot of turnovers because he's a playmaker, playmakers always have high turnover numbers, more so when they're the only playmaker on their team. The Rocket offense wasn't going to ever run smoothly because they don't have the talent to run smoothly... Ask Jeff Van Gundy if he has ever thought about moving Francis to the 2 guard spot, he'll tell you that that idea is absolutely out of the question, Francis is a PG. Deal with him at PG or start rooting for another team, because unless he gets trade he's going to be the Rockets PG.</div> what are you talking about Francis averaged 6.2 APG 9th best in the league that is not to bad, but had 1.62 ASS/TO ratio 39 worst in the NBA for PG's, that is horrible Here are some other ASS/TO ratios J. Williams 3.62 Steve Nash 3.29 Eric Snow 3.01 Gary Payton 2.97 Jason Kidd 2.89 S. Marbury 2.89 Mike Bibby, SAC 2.54 You're starting PG cannot turn the ball over 294 times, that has nothing to do with the team, that is all on him. Now it is true that the rocket in general were bad about turnovers, but that is still unacceptibe. 1 of three thigs has to happen for the rocket to win. Francis has the stop turning over the ball or he has to be moved from the PG spot.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">If he really wanted to win he would of won last season in Orlando... Marriage is something that makes some guys look at life differently, maybe after marriage he starts taking more responsibilty, maybe he feels more accountable for the failures going on around him, maybe he stops blaming everyone else for his problems, or he'll stop making excuses. He obviously needs a change in his attitude, maybe marriage gives it to him... Van Gundy won't move him to the 2 because he thinks highly of Francis, he's said so plenty of times, everytime he's asked why doesn't he move Francis to the 2 he says it's out of the question. Nash won't be the player he is on the Rockets that he is on the Mavericks, no more 10 assist games for him with the talent, err the lack of talent the Rockets have. Francis has played PG his entire life, that's where he naturally belongs.</div> your reasoning is weird... all the teams in the NBA with a superstar (except detroit) must have NOT WANTED to win bad enough, since according to you if you WANT to win bad enough and you tap the heels of your pink slippers, you'll win... so I guess KG, Carter, Lakers, AI, Duncan ALL must have not wanted to win bad enough, because if they did, they would've won huh. JVG consistently says good things about Franics because he knows francis s trugglign to change from a scorer to a true point guard, is he supposed ot say things like "Francis totlalyed sucked" in press conferences?? Francis is a good player, but he's role is NOT a true PG, JVG knows that, francis is in a tought situation as well, he's being asked ot change alot of his game, so we can't really blame him nor mobley. Francis is NOT a point guard that distributes the ball well to everyone, his decision (and Mobley's) at times were horrible. And part of the responsibility is Yao ming's, he needs to be more aggressive and demand the ball withmore authority, he has to take the role of a leader, he hasn't yet, but I'm hoping he will ;] I dunno if the trade well work out by Tmac in Houston seems raelly too good to be true, Indiana and phoenix both have more to offer than houston, but indiana is giving up ALOT to get tmac, they already have a pretty successful team, giving up bender, harrington and artest is giving up a big part of their team. Phoenix on the other hand, doesn't seem like the type of team that tma cwould want to go to as much as houston. they don't have a yao ming type of player... this offseason is going to be very exciting.
I only see 2 PG's that are better than Francis on that list, maybe 3 if you want to include Nash, I don't because of his defense... Playmakers will get hig turnover numbers... Jason Kidd gets a lot of turnovers all the time, Baron Davis does, Allen Iverson does... If you're making plays you're going to get turnovers... The Rockets are winning now, he isn't going to cut down on turnovers, maybe more assists if his team gets more talent, but turnovers will stay about the same, and he will never be moved from the PG spot. By winning I didn't mean winning the championship, I meant winning in the regular season, getting to the playoffs, not last place like McGrady's Magic... If that were the case only one team would win every season, nobody looks at it that way though... Van Gundy criticizes everyone, criticized Francis all the time during the season, this offseason, looking back at the season, is when Van Gundy shows appreciation for Francis.
Well it is obvious you have some unreasonable love for steve francis, Francis is not a playmaker like kidd nash or davis, franacis creates of his dribble not of his passing. If you really think a 1.63 Ass/to ratio will get the rockets anywhere you need to learn some more about the game of basketball. I dont have anything else to say on this subject i love francis, but not as the PG.
