Unless its for Carlos Boozer or some other power forward that can rebound and shoot a nice midrange or 3 point shot. Big men are that pricey but its worth it you're going to get someone who can be a team player and do his job with strength and shooting touch. Francis is already a good point guard but the problem is that he is too selfish and he tends to overdribble. But who else can drive the lane like he does and get to the foul line. His size and quickness are rare. Only Nash, the young GP, Kidd, B-diddy have the size and dribble penentration to finish in the lane over smaller guards. If he can consistently get to the line and put the other team over the limit, his teammates jobs will be so much easier. When over the foul limit, the other team will be playing especially passive on Yao because he can shoot his free throws. I think Francis has done a pretty good job adjusting to the new system his team is run under and his defense is getting better and better. He just needs to stop settling for jumpers, over dribbling, and he must be trying harder to get Yao or Mobley open as possible for the wide open shot and pass the ball.
I know that Francis is young, and he can still develop much better, but I don't think he makes good decisions and I think hes too streaky. Great game one day bad game the next. So I think if The Rockets can get a proven player for Francis I'd do it.
Why houston SHOULD trade francis is because they need a real PG, not a 2 guard playing out of position. They need a billups, nash, kidd, marbury type player. Not a wade, francis, AI type player. Better a shoot first PG than a 2 guard playing out of position IMO.
Francis is a REAL PG, one of the top dozen or so in the league... Marbury is the one who needs to switch positions, do something, stop his losing!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">Francis is a REAL PG, one of the top dozen or so in the league... Marbury is the one who needs to switch positions, do something, stop his losing!</div> Yeah, although they have the same mentality, I feel Marbury is like Arenas, Gordon and Wade. A pass first shoot second PG that can't it done, they're much better off as SG and Combo Guards. Francis on the other hand although he possesses the same mentality, he is also quite unselfish regardless of being prone to turnovers at times. Also, he plays good and tries hard in defense, which makes your team, which is part of the franchise mentality. He fits in pretty well as well in my eyes, he should go if you were to get say TMac or Kobe, seeing as you'd end up like a lot of the young teams like the Grizzlies or Blazers, too many talents, too few minutes. I say keep him, he's still one of your best scorers, he just needs some consistency and more control, same goes for B Dizzle.
Francis IMO is not a "real" PG. He's definitely not any more of a PG than marbury in my eyes. Yes, Marbury has that shoot first mentality, but he looks to run the offense first, and then if nothing opens up, he takes matters in to his own hands rather than waiting for something to open up. Francis on the other hand looks to create his own offense on most possessions. Arenas is the same way. Francis' position is like what AI was put in to when he first came in to the league.
B-Dizzle is the second best PG in the league, no need to worry about him... All he needs is a shooting guard to run with him, trade Mashburn for one... What offense does Marbury run? That pick and roll, over and over and over, and over... That's all he knows how to run, he runs it, tries to drive if that doesn't work he passes it, that's all the guy does. That's not running an offense, that's making an offense work to your strengths, extremely selfish especially when he knew it usually led to loss after loss. Francis looks to create for himself when it's neccessary, when there are other options he takes them, of course sometimes he makes bad decisions but for the most part he does fine.
Oh man not another "Francis isn't a real PG" debate. Me and RocketLaunch debated that issue to the death and came to no conclusion. I still think Francis is a 2-guard playing out of position, exactly what jigga said, and Rocket apparently still thinks Francis is a good natural PG. Oh well, regardless, I think Francis should be traded. Why? He is a Franchise type of a player. We don't need that. He's not one to complement another player which is what we need to look into for Yao. I would like the Rockets management to find players that can complement Yao, surrond him with good role players like the Pacers did to JO. JO has GREAT supporting cast such as Al Harrington, Tinsley, Foster, etc. Those guys know what their role are, gets the job done well, and when JO doesn't get going, they're able to step up.
Francis is not a true point guard, but he is a pretty combo guard. 6 assists per game aren't bad, especially since those numbers rank him in the Top 10 each since in the league. Francis can obviously score with ease when he needs to, but I like the positive change in him this season when he started to play more team basketball and looked for open guys off the drive. That could be the PG we need and want on the team. If we trade him, our whole nucleus would go to ruins, which is why I say: KEEP FRANCIS.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">B-Dizzle is the second best PG in the league, no need to worry about him... All he needs is a shooting guard to run with him, trade Mashburn for one... What offense does Marbury run? That pick and roll, over and over and over, and over... That's all he knows how to run, he runs it, tries to drive if that doesn't work he passes it, that's all the guy does. That's not running an offense, that's making an offense work to your strengths, extremely selfish especially when he knew it usually led to loss after loss. Francis looks to create for himself when it's neccessary, when there are other options he takes them, of course sometimes he makes bad decisions but for the most part he does fine.</div> Marbury has been put in situations where the offense is built to run around him. The teams that Marbury had to run were never really that great. He only played one or two seasons w/ KG. The nets had no one when he was there. He took Phoenix farther than anyone thought they could go. And made the Knicks in to a playoff team after joining them. Francis has always been about getting him involved first. Marbury runs the pick and roll, and if he doesnt have the shot, he wont back it out and run it again, and rarely does he take a bad shot on a pick and pop. Francis will run the pick and roll, if its not there, he'll back it out, and try it again, or try to do something else. Francis is a tremendous talent, but if you're gonna let him make point guard decisions, he hasnt shown he could do it during his tenure w/ Houston.
He does compliment Yao, he took a step back on offense to let Yao develop... The problem there is that Yao is not JO, not even close... Another problem is that the Pacer's front office puts the Rocket's front office to shame, they make bad decision after bad decision.... Good read Trip... No he hasn't, Marbury has had a lot of talent around him, in Phoenix he had more than 2 times the talent Francis had in Houston and he still didn't change his ways. He doesn't like giving up the ball, why do you think Joe Johnson's and Amare Stoudamire's numbers exploded after he left, he'd rather his team lose than him let others take the glory. Phoenix was talented enough to go to the playoffs, they've had that talent for years now, 3 years with Marbury only 1 playoff run thanks to Stoudamire. No one thought the Suns would be as bad as they were this season, then again everyone overrates Marbury. I think the Knicks were in the playoffs when he got there, if not a couple of games out, so he hardly made that much of a difference there. You didn't even watch the Rockets this season if you think Francis is all about himself, he ran that offense, did everything that was asked of him and sacrificed aspects of his game for the good of the team. Marbury doesn't know what the word sacrifice means, he'll play his game, get his stats and if his team loses so be it, but you can't blame him because he got his numbers. The Rockets don't even run the pick and roll that much, so if he makes bad a couple of bad decisions the few times they run it fine, Marbury is the one who runs it to death.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RocketLaunch:</div><div class="quote_post">He does compliment Yao, he took a step back on offense to let Yao develop... The problem there is that Yao is not JO, not even close... Another problem is that the Pacer's front office puts the Rocket's front office to shame, they make bad decision after bad decision.... Good read Trip... No he hasn't, Marbury has had a lot of talent around him, in Phoenix he had more than 2 times the talent Francis had in Houston and he still didn't change his ways. He doesn't like giving up the ball, why do you think Joe Johnson's and Amare Stoudamire's numbers exploded after he left, he'd rather his team lose than him let others take the glory. Phoenix was talented enough to go to the playoffs, they've had that talent for years now, 3 years with Marbury only 1 playoff run thanks to Stoudamire. No one thought the Suns would be as bad as they were this season, then again everyone overrates Marbury. I think the Knicks were in the playoffs when he got there, if not a couple of games out, so he hardly made that much of a difference there. You didn't even watch the Rockets this season if you think Francis is all about himself, he ran that offense, did everything that was asked of him and sacrificed aspects of his game for the good of the team. Marbury doesn't know what the word sacrifice means, he'll play his game, get his stats and if his team loses so be it, but you can't blame him because he got his numbers. The Rockets don't even run the pick and roll that much, so if he makes bad a couple of bad decisions the few times they run it fine, Marbury is the one who runs it to death.</div> What talent has Marbury had around him? What did phoenix do w/out stephon? The Knicks were 14-23 pre-marbury, and 25-20 w/ marbury, that's quite a turn-around. Under .400 w/out marbury, above .500 w/ marbury. I've watch a ton of houston games this year. Francis was the main reason why i turned my TV off early so many times after watching Houston games. His play on the floor frustrates the hell out me because I would love to see Houston succeed. If what Francis did in Houston this past year is called running offense, then you have no right to criticize what marbury has been doing. At least marbury is giving up the ball on the screen and roll if he doesnt have a shot. Francis runs the clock down to about 7 seconds by trying create for himself, that he's either forced to take a bad shot, forced to pass after a broken play, or forces turnovers.
Take away the PG position and the Suns were better at every other position, other than center, and had a much better bench, that's the talent. The Suns before Marbury were winning 50 games a year, this past season they were in last place with him and last place without him, difference was that Stoudamire and Johnson weren't being held back like they were when he was on the team. We'll see what the Knicks have next season... Houston does succeed, if you haven't noticed they're lacking the talent to truly compete in the West, they over achieve almost every season. The Rockets offense looked bad because they have very little to work with outside of Yao and Francis, the whole offense revolves around those 2 guys.
And the Suns made the playoffs w/ that roster and Houston didn't. The Suns were winning 50 games before marbury cuz they had a guy named jason kidd who wasnt too bad. They didn't have a chance to finish the season w/ marbury, so you can't really say what the outcome woulda been, they coulda challenged for the final playoff spot, who knows. The Knicks on the other hand had a major turnaround after acquiring marbury. Houston overachieved? They have lots of offensive talent on that team and in my opinion, they underachieved this year. I was very dissapointed in their season, i expected way more from them. Outside of Francis and Yao, they still have Mobley who can be a 18-20 point scorer on another team, and Jim Jackson who can still get it done offensively. Not to mention Taylor off the bench who brings nothing but instant offense when he comes off the bench. Their offense looked back because Francis couldn't run that offense right. Maybe its van gundy's system, but even then, he should focus more on getting these pieces he has around him the ball, rather than dribbling around for 18 seconds, then resorting to the last possible option.
lol.. This thread has become, whose better, Marbury or Francis? Well.. Marbury did have great players around him everywhere, except for maybe New Jersey.. Phoenix, Marion, Amare, you give Francis that, he would be in the playoffs. New York? Sure New York played well, but seriously, 25-20 after he came, isnt good at all. maybe 35-10, but that might be hard, 28-17? that would be good.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Houston does succeed, if you haven't noticed they're lacking the talent to truly compete in the West, they over achieve almost every season. The Rockets offense looked bad because they have very little to work with outside of Yao and Francis, the whole offense revolves around those 2 guys.</div> That is VERY true.. Yao and Francis ARE the Rockets, why? Mobley is not a role player, he doesnt seem to grasp the concept that a shooting guard shouldnt turn the ball over.. Its the nature of an immature point guard to turn the ball over, Francis gets frustrated, and he doesnt know what to do, so he tries to create, but it doesnt work out. Jim Jackson is the only role player on the team, we need players like that. Francis/Yao is Kobe/Shaq, except that Francis likes Yao, Kobe hates Shaq. We dont need any super stars, just guys that can give us 15 and 7, 12 and 9, 10 and 10. We got the points in Taylor, the rebounds in Cato, 15 points in Mo, and Cato can give us a solid 7. We got 12 points in J.J. and 9 in him too. We need a PF that can take Taylor's, and some of Mobley's points and combine them with Cato's and some of Jackson's rebounding. I see the Rockets game being played as a team, not like the Lakers, where Shaq will take the first quarter, Kobe the second, and then the second half is Hoopla Free for All. I want the Rockets to get 25+ assists, I want Yao to throw an outlet pass, instead of Francis being fed from Yao's hands.. These things arent hard, and they can very well be achieved by mid next season.. The Rockets can only play the Pick and Roll well on the baseline, because Yao can have definitive position there. Thats his biggest problem, positioning. Yao doesnt need to have biceps like J.J., Hakeem wasnt as strong as Ewing, or Robinson, sure as hell wasnt as big as Shaq. He used speed, something that Yao doesnt have. But Yao needs to find something he has over other big men. He has reach, all he should have to do, is raise his arm, and the ball should be there. He shouldnt put the ball on the floor, and the only reason he does is because he gets bad positioning. He should get closer to the basket than the free-throw line, and Sky Hook, or Jump Hook it in. He can do his turn-around when he gets bad positioning, instead of relying on it all the friggin time. I think during the season, JVG, and me, might have wanted to trade Francis, but in the playoffs, it wasnt about him getting a triple-double. It was about him picking up the slack, for Yao, for Cato, the 3 pointers that dint fall, for the bench. It was about him doing what he needed to do, that is the Francis I want, that's the Rockets team I want. And know that the Laker empire is crumbling, I think its time for a NEW DYNASTY to emerge..
I did the same thing Jigga did in some games this past season. I turned off the TV after seeing Francis does some really dumb decisions. I don't care if he makes it up by making a great play the next trip around, he shouldn't have had the stupid play in the first place. Put it this way, if we somehow acquire a legit, real pass-first PG while still keeping Yao and Francis, I guarantee you we will be higher than the 8th seed within 2 years. I don't like Francis playing the PG because he gets dribble-happy that hurts the whole team. Sure you can make the argument that he does that because nobody's moving or that the offense just isn't there. Fine, but to have that happen one out of two or three plays is just ridiculous. That is the point guard's fault. A PG is supposed to lead and direct traffic for his team so that the play can develop. Francis has done an admirable job trying to fit into the offense but he just isn't a legit, smart PG. He's a scorer, not a passer. Let's admit it, more than half of Steve's assists come from penetrating, have nowhere to go, dumps it to a teammate and hopes he bails him out. Sometimes it work but half the time it doesn't. That's why he averages almost 4 TO per game. Don't you think the Rockets will be better off with Steve just concentrating on doing what he does best - scoring - while someone else can worry about running the offense for the team?
I agree. I don't think we should trade Francis just yet because his trade value has diminished greatly over the past season, and the spurt in the playoffs didn't really raise it by a lot. When the trade deadline was near, people were even suggesting that we trade Francis for Eric Snow. If this proposition had been made two seasons ago, the person who made up the trade would be labelled as stupid and dumb. However, during this season, the person was agreed with, and the idea was embraced by everyone. That is where it all goes unreasonable. Francis, after all, is a number 2 pick in the draft, and has averaged 19/5/6 over his career. Those numbers are not numbers to be compared with Snow, who does not have an offensive game anywhere as refined as Francis's. Actually, Snow's point guard skills aren't that great either. He is being defined as a pure point guard because he can't shoot, and the only thing he can do is pass the ball to another player who can do things on the offensive side better than he does, in that case Iverson. What SupraJames said made sense. If we keep Francis at the SG spot and let him do what he does best in scoring, it's almost a given that his PG experience can still have him averaging at least 4 assists per game, and a maximum of three turnovers per game. Trade Mobley and Cato for all I care, just bring in a guy that knows how to run a proper offense and shoots only 6 times a game. That player can come through the draft in Duhon or free agency or trade, just let Francis make the transition to shooting guard and have a stellar point guard come in, and maybe we can see a smaller version of the JKidd/Penny duo in Phoenix a few seasons ago.
They were 1 game ahead of the Rockets with that roster, 1! They should of won 50 games... The Suns season was finished when Stoudamire went down, Marbury was not going to pick up the slack, and what makes you think Marbury can turn a team around? Oh wait he can turn teams around, just not the way fans want him to... Mobley, how many playoff teams does he start for? How many teams does Jackson start for? Taylor can't even start on the Rockets so we won't even talk about him. Mobley probably starts on the Nuggets, probably on the Hornets, that's it. Jackson starts on the Celtics, that's it. Oh yeah that's talent man, I bet a whole junk load of teams are jealouse of the Rockets offensive talent, HA! Their offensive talent is wack man, that's why their offense looks like crap most of the time, unless Francis or Yao make a play. Moving Francis to shooting guard is defensive suicide, of course mostly everyone here seems to think of only offense like the Rockets are as offensively oriented as the Mavericks.
One game out is one game out. Fact is, Marbury and the suns made it, Houston didn't. To go from 7 games under .500 to 5 games above it is pretty damn good if you ask me, especially if half of your 1-2 punch is gone and your left to run the show by yourself. Mobley, jackson, and taylor are all solid offensive players. Who cares who they would start for. Antawn Jamison doesn't start and he's a major offensive talent. Same goes for Bobby Jackson.
1 game out, the underachieved, the Rockets overachieved and would have made it had Rudy T. not missed a bunch of games... We'll see what happens with Knicks next season... Solid, yes, but nothing special, nothing that other teams would envy. Antawan Jamison doesn't start because the Mavericks have better options, same for Bobby Jackson, Jamison would start for the Rockets, easily.
