So your saying Martin is more valuable than Kidd? Gimmie a break, without Kidd there's no NJ Nets. Martin can't score amazingly at a superstar level in the halfcourt offense, alot come from the fastbreaks b/c he's the best finisher on the team.
Yea, true. If the Nets don't have Kidd, they suck. He is the court general. He is the leader of the team. Without him, that team doesn't have the key player they need to win. He's the difference maker on that team. He does everything you want a point guard to do. He distributes, he scores when he needs, and he plays great defense. Not to mention he makes the big shots. Without Kidd, the Nets wouldn't win. That was shown because, until he came, they sucked. He is the franchise down there. No doubt about it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">So your saying Martin is more valuable than Kidd? Gimmie a break, without Kidd there's no NJ Nets. Martin can't score amazingly at a superstar level in the halfcourt offense, alot come from the fastbreaks b/c he's the best finisher on the team.</div> I have an idea. Next time you "read" one of my posts, actually read it. I never is Martin is more valuable than Kidd. I said in a half court offense, Martin becomes more valuable because he can score within a half court set. Kidd cannot score as effectively as Martin can from within a half court set, making Martin, for that play, a more valuable player. That doesn't mean Martin is better, or more valuable than Kidd overall. Its just a case where Martin becomes the most valuable player on the court for the Nets. There is a big difference. And had you been able to read, you would have been able to pick up on that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea, true. If the Nets don't have Kidd, they suck. He is the court general. He is the leader of the team. Without him, that team doesn't have the key player they need to win. He's the difference maker on that team. He does everything you want a point guard to do. He distributes, he scores when he needs, and he plays great defense. Not to mention he makes the big shots. Without Kidd, the Nets wouldn't win. That was shown because, until he came, they sucked. He is the franchise down there. No doubt about it.</div> Injuries also had a lot to do with why the Nets struggled pre-Kidd times.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Injuries also had a lot to do with why the Nets struggled pre-Kidd times.</div> This is true, but, ultimately, Kidd made the difference. Without Kidd, they still had good talent with People like KMart, Van Horn, etc., etc. But, when he came, that's what made the diff. He brought a winning attitude to that team and he also brought a tremendous amount of on court leadership to them. That's what made the difference. And, also, they've showed how good they are when he's not in the lineup cause they don't win nearly as often. I think that Kidd was the ultimate difference maker to this team being good. They had all the pieces except a court general and they got that with him.
Here are some quotes that I gathered for my man KMart for those questioning his heart, talent, improvement and maturity: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hard to argue that anyone but K-Mart is the preeminent power forward in the game right now. He's added perimeter skills to his brutal inside package; a face-up game to his devastating transition moves; calmness and leadership to the fire that rages below the surface. - David Aldridge, ESPN.com</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">John Nash has known Rasheed Wallace for years. He followed him through his high school days in Philadelphia, then, in 1995, drafted him with the fourth overall pick of the first round for Washington. Five years later, Nash had moved on to become general manager of the Nets, and he sat in a Chicago gym and watched Kenyon Martin single-handedly bring his University of Cincinnati team from behind to beat DePaul. Nash walked out of the gym that night convinced that Martin would be the No. 1 overall pick in the 2000 NBA draft, and he was right. When that draft arrived, Nash, with the consent of the Nets' president, Rod Thorn, picked Martin." - NY Times </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It was one of those plays that had everyone in the locker room buzzing after the game. Kenyon Martin was playing help defense on Jamal Mashburn on the left wing. He switched over to the top of the key to play some more help defense up top, then saw Darrell Armstrong getting the ball in the right corner, where he was loading up for a 3-pointer. Martin leapt from somewhere near the top of the key -- or was it somewhere near Weehawken? -- and swatted the shot attempt about eight rows deep. "Kenyon Martin was Superman," coach Lawrence Frank said. "I've never seen a block like that, guarding five people on one possession." The block came midway through the fourth quarter and helped the Nets preserve what was then a 14-point lead. "He probably does have an S on his chest," Jason Kidd said. "That defensive play was something I've never seen before, in the sense of where he came from. He was guarding somebody on the other side, then he took a step from the top of the key and just jumped and blocked a shot. That's just unheard of. But that's why he's the All-Star and the defensive stopper on our team." Martin's take? "It was just total effort," he said. "I was just trying to make a play. I was just trying to get there -- trying to make him miss or just get a hand on it. And I got a hand on it." - NJ Star Ledger </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tropical breezes and late nights, and a lifetime of memories for Nets forward Kenyon Martin and his wife, Heather, who are here on their honeymoon. Except that the tropical breezes have blown in downpours and the late nights have been 10 p.m. tip-offs for the United States men's basketball team at the Olympic qualifying tournament. Martin is playing because he said Heather had assured him - while they ate lunch in Las Vegas two days after their wedding - that it would be a great opportunity for him. No matter that they were about to pack for their honeymoon in Aruba. It's still the Caribbean, right? "It's not the same," Martin said, shaking his head. "Not with all this rain." He is not allowing the weather, or how he was suddenly selected as a substitute, to put a damper on the experience. Disappointed in May when he was not chosen for the team, Martin readily agreed to take Karl Malone's spot when Malone had to leave on Aug. 13 after his mother, Shirley Jackson Malone, died. Solely focused and virtually acclimated after only a week on the United States squad, Martin has put aside the prickly contract situation with the Nets that erupted earlier this month. Martin's dedication has registered with his United States coaches. "You got to love a guy who changes his honeymoon midstream for basketball," the assistant Gregg Popovich said with a smile. "Does that make a statement or what? He's got guts."</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First, Kenyon Martin had to conquer the physical stuff the mangled leg suffered late in his senior season at Cincinnati that some thought would be career threatening. Next up was the mental meat grinder. He had to defuse that loose cannon in his head. It didn't take long for perhaps the best athlete ever to come out of Bryan Adams High School to fix those problems. Time took care of the first. His basketball sense took care of the second. But there was another issue to address that little detail of acceptance, of proving that the No. 1 overall pick in the 2000 NBA draft was worthy of that designation. This would not come quite so conveniently. Sometimes, it takes a big whack to the side of the ego. When Martin didn't make the Eastern Conference All-Star team this season while Cleveland's Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Indiana's Brad Miller somehow did he took it personally. And for the rest of the season, he played like an All-Star in every sense. Starting after All-Star reserves were announced, Martin averaged 29 points and 13.3 rebounds in the next three games. He went on to average 19.8 points in his final 32 regular-season games. If that didn't do it, then one other snub certainly did. At the end of the season, he was left off not only the all-defensive first team, but the second team, as well. "It was absolutely astonishing that he didn't make the first or second all-defensive team," Nets coach Byron Scott says. After having his leg put back together, then being supplanted as bad-apple poster boy by Indiana's Ron Artest, these two blows hurt. But the 6-9 Martin is enjoying one heck of a last laugh. He's square in the middle of the NBA Finals for the second year in a row with the New Jersey Nets, and his play is a big reason the Nets have positioned themselves as a force in the Eastern Conference for years to come, regardless of the outcome in the Finals against San Antonio. "I just tried to keep getting better, tried to see how much better I can be in this league," Martin says. "There are things in the game, instead of just trying to show up and play." </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is little doubt that Martin has ability. It's just taken a little time for everybody to figure that out even himself. He knew early on that his niche in the NBA would not come immediately. "I think I'm pretty prepared for what's going on," he once said. "I think I can be one of the best players in this league when I get a couple years under my belt." He was 22 when he said that as a rookie. Now he's 24 and, in spite of what some people who vote for All-Stars might think, he is one of the best forwards in the league. He won over at least one skeptic with his play early in the NBA Finals. "I was so impressed," ABC commentator and Hall of Fame center Bill Walton said. "He was the guy I was most concerned about, and he played the best. I thought Jason would be great and that Kenyon Martin would be the problem. And what happened in Game 1 was the exact opposite. Kenyon Martin was great and Jason Kidd was the problem." Kidd has alternated between bad and good games in the first four games of the Finals. But Martin has been perhaps New Jersey's most consistent player. He leads the team in points, rebounds, blocks and steals during the Finals. Martin has handled himself well against Tim Duncan, who has played like the MVP he is throughout the playoffs, ravaging just about everything in his path. Against the Nets, he's been great. But perhaps not dominant. The 30-point games that flowed from him against the Mavericks in the conference finals have been absent since Game 1. Martin has had a little something to do with that, as has Dikembe Mutombo. Duncan has averaged 23.8 points and 16.3 rebounds in the Finals. But Martin has put up respectable numbers in every game, which is part of why the series is tied at two wins apiece. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kenyon Martin is about to pose for some photographs with his month-old daughter Cierra Reign when he excuses himself to go upstairs to change clothes. He returns to the living room of his five-bedroom Closter, N.J., home wearing a pink Kangol hat that matches his daughter's outfit. As he gently scoops up tiny Cierra into his massive palms, Martin begins to purr at her, whispering to his daughter who has only been home for a little over a week after being born prematurely on May 3. "There is nothing stronger than a bond between a father and a son," Martin says. "But they say it gets better when you have a little girl." Is this the same man who has the words "Bad-Ass Yellow Boy" tattooed on his chest? The man labeled the NBA's quintessential bad boy only a year ago? ... Wearing pink? If only Celtics All-Star Antoine Walker could have seen this kinder, gentler Kenyon Martin instead of the one who brutalized him for four games in the Eastern Conference semifinals. The funny thing is, precious Cierra Reign, all five pounds of her, is partially responsible for Martin terrorizing the Celtics and the Pistons in the last two rounds. Cierra was born a month-and-a-half prematurely, just two days before the Nets began their series against Boston. At four pounds, six ounces, Cierra weighed less than the pressure that fills a basketball and was kept at Pascack Valley hospital until about a week ago. Her weight dropped to three pounds, 12 ounces before she began gaining. From Game 1 against Boston through Game 2 against Detroit - a span of six playoff games - a worried Martin visited his daughter every chance he got, before games, after games, after road trips and practices. "Sometimes as soon as he would get to the hospital, he would sit in a rocking chair and his eyes would close," says Martin's fiancee, Heather Thompson, the mother of his two children who plans to wed Martin later this year. "We were there all the time." A sleep-deprived Martin still averaged 19.5 points and 8.3 rebounds against the Celtics and Pistons, helping to carry the Nets to their second straight NBA Finals. All the while, Martin averaged nearly as many minutes (40.2) on the court as he did in bed. "He went a couple of days where he didn't sleep," teammate and close friend Donny Marshall says. "I could see it in his eyes. Once he got on the floor, it was like he turned on a switch - he was out there using his daughter fighting in the hospital as his energy and aggression." Wearing her hospital ID bracelet, Martin was driven to finish the Celtics and Pistons series quickly so he could spend more time with Cierra. Two sweeps and a 10-game postseason winning streak later, Martin has emerged a budding superstar, rested and ready to face Tim Duncan. "I think I can elevate my game even more now," Martin says as he coddles his daughter. "In order for us to win, I am going to have to. Everybody is saying I'm a star. I want to be a superstar." Martin is on his way, averaging 20.7 points, 9.1 rebounds, 1.3 steals and 1.2 blocks this postseason, but it was just a year ago that he was a walking flagrant foul, suspended for a total of seven games after accumulating six flagrants worth $347,057.55 in fines. Martin earned a Dennis Rodman-like reputation, and even after his best game as a pro, a 35-point, 11-rebound effort in Game 4 against the Lakers in the Finals, Martin was remembered most for his postgame comments ripping teammate Keith Van Horn. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Later that summer, a few events shook Martin. First, his best friend in the league, Hawks guard DerMarr Johnson, was involved in a serious car accident, and Martin was initially told that Johnson died in the crash. A few weeks later, Martin's Cincinnati college coach, Bob Huggins, suffered a major heart attack. More than anything else, though, Martin's children have calmed him down. He says he no longer goes out as much as he used to, determined to be the father that he never had. Raised by his mother, Lydia Moore, and older sister Tamara in Dallas, the 25-year-old has only seen his father, Paul Roby, twice - once when he was 10 when he visited Roby in California, and when the Nets played a game in Los Angeles last year. "(Somebody) said, 'There's Paul Roby!'" Martin says of his 6-6 father, who played some college ball at New Mexico. "I looked up there and kept walking. My father wasn't there for me growing up. I told myself that if I'm fortunate enough to have children, it wouldn't be like that. They say you are not suppose to hate people. I probably don't hate him but I despise him.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Instead, Martin is making the covers of magazines for his play. He dominated the Celtics' Walker in the second round of the playoffs, holding him to an average of 14 points and 34.3% shooting. "A lot of guys are intimidated by him," Kerry Kittles says of Martin, who only had one flagrant foul this season. "You see guys back away from him when he drives. He'll run into them with his shoulder on purpose and they won't do anything about it."</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kenyon Martin has a secret. He of the seven flagrant fouls and the eight tattoos and the nine hundred tempestuous outbursts is actually a nice guy, the kind of guy who routinely picks up the check at dinner, who laughs at the good parts of bad movies, who lends his buddy a suit and then says "just keep it." "Look, the man offered to pay my salary when the team was debating whether or not they could afford to keep me, which is something you just don't see in professional sports," says New Jersey Nets forward Donny Marshall, recently reinstated after getting cut at the beginning of the season. In the end, NBA rules wouldn't allow Martin to chip in for Marshall's paycheck, but his offer made Marshall know for sure that Martin's bark is worse than his bite. "You could call him at 3 a.m. and he'd do anything for you; I think he's the most caring guy on our team."</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Martin may be a kind teammate, but to the rest of the NBA, he is as cuddly as a porcupine. He pushes. He shoves. He talks trash. He blocks shots with such ferocity that when he didn't make the league's all-defensive team at the end of the regular season, Boston Coach Jim O'Brien said he was "shocked . . . we certainly voted for him." "In our family, he's the big, tough brother, the protector," point guard Jason Kidd says. "He's the one who, if you're going to school and someone is threatening to take your lunch money, you say K-Mart is your big brother, and everyone will leave you alone." Certainly, Martin made Walker want to run home to his mother earlier this month; in the first three games of the New Jersey-Boston series, Walker shot just 15 for 52 with Martin guarding him. Martin was so dominating that Walker, a three-time all-star, is now reportedly on the trading block, his utter fizzle in the face of Martin's trash talk just as much as a factor as his failures behind the three-point line. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Martin's menacing on-court presence helped the Nets reach the NBA Finals last season before getting swept by the Los Angeles Lakers. But in analyzing how the Nets could ascend to NBA champions, Martin decided he would have to curb the bad-boy antics and not become branded as bait for needless trouble. "This is my third year, man. I've grown up a lot since last year," says Martin, 25. "I don't know what (prompted it); it's just maturing. That's the way it goes, I guess. Some people get it, and some people don't. I think I got it." A nice piece of evidence was provided Wednesday night after Nets guard Kerry Kittles had been called for his second foul in seven seconds. A year ago Martin probably would have let the ref know he agreed with Kittles' heated vocal protests, and who knows what might have happened. This time Martin gently hit Kittles in the chest, softly pushed him backward and said something in his ear. Seconds later Kittles stole the ball and passed to Martin, who passed right back to Kittles for an open baseline jumper. "He's relaxed a lot," fellow forward Richard Jefferson says. "He doesn't let situations or referees get under his skin, and I think that's why he's grown up, or rather, matured."</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jefferson credits Jason Kidd, the Nets' level-headed veteran guard, for part of Martin's change. "Jason Kidd is the calmest, most reliable guy you could have, so we follow his lead," Jefferson says. "Kenyon's learned from him, really, and I think that's become obvious as the season has gone on." Martin, for the most part agrees, saying he always has admired Kidd. "But I'd say that Kenyon Martin is the heart and soul of that team, and his energy and his spontaneity is what helps lift them up," says former NBA center Bob Lanier, who was at Wednesday's game. "I love Jason Kidd you've got to love him but I think the intensity that Kenyon Martin brings to that squad is entirely pertinent to their success."</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Martin talks tough when he feels the need. He recently challenged Jefferson to raise his level of assertiveness, but Martin didn't do so in the manner when he more or less blasted then-teammate Keith Van Horn for being soft during last season's Finals. About an hour before Wednesday's game, Jefferson accosted Martin in the locker room and playfully admonished him for ripping Jefferson's admission of being nervous in certain playoff situations. Jefferson wagged his finger at Martin, who wagged back ... and the two soon dissolved into giggles. "That's right, get on out of here," Martin said with mock scorn as Jefferson went into the training room. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Martin's strengths are his leaping ability and his speed. But in truth, his real strength comes from a 6-foot-9, 230-pound frame that is stacked with muscle and covered with tattoos. "I think some people are scared of him," Scott said. "I've seen power forwards, where he might foul them and they might otherwise look like they're about to do something, they turn and see it's him and say, `No no, no.' "</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Calling (Kenyon) Martin 'probably the best forward I have played with,' (Jason) Kidd plans to talk to Martin this summer to make sure both are on the "same page" when it comes to their future. "I don't want to be here if (Kenyon)'s not" - NY Daily News</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"After Kenyon Martin suffered through two serious injuries in two seasons, basketball insiders wondered if he ever again would be the same dominating player he was most of his college career with Cincinnati. He wouldn't. Not only has Martin recovered the form that made him the consensus college player of the year for the 1999-2000 season, he has gotten better. The image of Martin's first injury was jarring - the best player in the nation fell to the ground with a fractured leg late in the season, ruining the Bearcats' national-title hopes and possibly hurting Martin's chance of becoming the first pick in the NBA draft. But it was his second injury, a break to the same leg that cut his rookie season 12 games short, that could have had the worst ramifications. Martin recovered from the initial injury quickly enough to be taken first overall in the 2000 draft by the New Jersey Nets and become an early front-runner for the NBA's Rookie of the Year award. Martin's early success indicated the injury might have been a solitary stumbling block on his way to a great career. But with the second fracture, suffered at the end of March 2001, Martin's potential could have gone unrealized as he flirted with earning the dreaded label of "injury-prone." Instead Martin is on the brink of stardom. He remains a fantastic defender and continues to expand his offensive game. He started all 44 of New Jersey's games this season heading into Friday night's game with New Orleans. How has he done it? "I worked, and hard work pays off," Martin said. "I just went out and put the time in. That's all you've got to do." Last season was a critical one for Martin. He formed a powerful duo with Jason Kidd, and New Jersey went from 26 wins the previous season to 52 and advanced to the NBA Finals. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kenyon Martin is one of the top five defenders in the NBA. Just ask him. "I've been that, I just haven't made [the All-Defensive team]. I've been preaching that since my rookie year," Martin said. He backed up his argument Saturday by shutting down Tracy McGrady as the New Jersey Nets rolled to a 121-88 victory against the visiting Orlando Magic. Martin held McGrady to 0-for-7 shooting in the first quarter and 2-for-13 shooting by halftime as the Nets opened a 20-point lead." - Chicago Sun Times</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Almost from the moment Keith Van Horn departed for Philadelphia, Kenyon Martin knew his role this season would change. He knew he was suddenly a full-time power forward, which meant full-time defensive assignments against the likes of Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Antoine Walker, and Karl Malone. He knew that instead of facing whippet-quick small forwards, he'd face muscle. Every night. "That's why I got in the weight room," Martin said after the Nets christened their potentially season-defining, five-game road swing with Saturday's 96-82 hammering of Minnesota. He added 10 to 15 pounds and chiseled a frame that now carries 240. He adjusted his mind-set to defending players he knew would be even heavier and often taller than his 6 feet, 9 inches. Such as the 7-1 Garnett. "Giving up that many inches, you have to be physical," he said. "If that's going to be my disadvantage, I have to have an advantage, I have to be more physical with those guys." So far, so physical. Garnett got 19 points and 15 rebounds Saturday, but six of those points and five of those boards came in garbage time. In their first meeting, a 106-82 Nets' romp, Garnett also padded his 23 points in garbage time. The two performances prompted Timberwolves coach Flip Saunders to call Martin one of the three best defensive forwards in the league. Otherwise, Martin has put the clamps on the likes of Tim Duncan (8-for-19, 21 points), Dirk Nowitzki (5-for-18, 18 points), Jermaine O'Neal (6-for-15, 14 points), and Kwame Brown (2-for-10, four points). Only the Clippers' Elton Brand (7-for-13, 20 points), whom he faces again Thanksgiving night in the second game of the Nets' four-game Western swing that begins Wednesday in Phoenix, has held his own against K-Mart. "He knew he was going to have to play against some pretty strong guys at the power forward position," coach Byron Scott said. "So he made sure this summer that he really hit the weights, he got a lot stronger, and didn't lose any of his flexibility or his quickness." </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The little kid from Dallas, the one the bullies picked on because he was small and he stuttered, has come a long way from Oak Hill, the section of the city where he grew up. It's an unlikely story in a lot of ways, how he became an NBA star. Martin wasn't the can't-miss prospect growing up. He wasn't the most sought-after recruit. "Just thinking back to when I first started playing, it amazes me sometimes," Martin said. "People said I was too clumsy. People said I was too skinny. It was everything. Then I think about all the places I've been playing basketball." He went to three high schools, leaving one for the next for various athletic and academic reasons. Then it was off to the University of Cincinnati, which took him even though he didn't have the SAT score to qualify right away. Martin spent the early months of freshman year taking practice tests every day. By Christmastime, he had his score and could start playing. "That's when I learned that hard work pays off," Martin said. "And if you want something bad enough, you have to keep working until you get it." That idea carried him to national college Player of the Year honors as a senior, when he was a 240-pounder who overpowered his opponents. What happens next is fairly well-documented: Martin shattered his leg in the first game of the Conference USA Tournament -- "the roughest thing I've ever dealt with," Martin calls it -- got picked No. 1 in the NBA Draft and cried like a baby when commissioner David Stern called his name. Maybe it's because he knew what he was in for. </div>
